Titanium vs. aluminium

Tectoron said:

Will anyone give me an advice?

Quoted message said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

It depends. Do you prefer to date blondes, brunettes, or redheads?

Art Harris

weaholm-<< What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some
years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame. >><BR><BR>

If the ti fits you, get that one. Longer lasting, perhaps a better ride.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Tectoron said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

I just trashed a Titanium frame that was cheap. It was fabricated in Russia
and the welds showed some discolouring that I discovered a week after I
bought it. At first I only saw it when the sun was shining or while shining
a flashlight at a nearly 180 degrees angle on the, but it got worse. My LBS
was so kind to offer me a differeet frameset. I wrote the importer of that
frameset for a year without getting any reaction.

So my advice is: if it's a frameset that has been welded in a cheapo
country, carefully check the welds before you buy it!

Apart from that, I was very satisfied with the frame.

Greets, Derk

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Will anyone give me an advice?
What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

Material is immaterial. Get the one that fits best. If both fit equally
well, I would lean towards the ti frame because a little scotch brite is
all you need to keep it looking good.
---------------
Alex

Quoted message said:

Tectoron said:

Will anyone give me an advice?

Quoted message said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

When I was looking to purchase a new bike, I rode as many aas
possible. I am doing Cycle Oregon (www.cycleoregon.com) this year, and
that was my criteria for the bike; 6 days of touring with a couple of
GOOD climbs. I'm relativly new to bicyling, and had been riding a
~20yo Gitane 10sp and a too-small Giant AL frame w/7sp Shimano RSX.

After doing some research, I rode a '04 LeMond Alpe d'Huez. On paper,
this is a great deal, utilizing Ultegra components for around $1,300.
Riding it, I loved the Ultegra, but the ride was 'buzzy' over rough
pavement. Next, I rode an '03 Orbea Altec Carbon, also with Ultegra.
When I first took it out, I thought the tires were low because the
ride was so smoooth. A very sweet bike, but at around $2,300 more than
I wanted to spend. I next rode a Trek 5200, which after the Orbea felt
wooden to me.

Next bike shop, I rode a '03 Alpe d'Huez, the one in steel. A much
nicer ride, and a bargain at around $900, but my SO hated the color.
After the recent remarkes by Greg, I'm glad I did not buy it. I rode a
Specilized Robaix Elite 27, and for a long while it was my 'leader'. I
tried a Cannondale (R600 I think) and for a straight AL framed bike, I
was impressed with the ride. I was less impressed with the Cannondale
crank set, and the R600 was never a contender, although a R800 or
R1000 may have been.

Finally, I rode a Litespeed Arenburg (new '01 frame). My LBS had a
great deal on these, fitted with full Ultegra tripple, Mavic Cosmos
wheels and so-so seat/post/bars etc. for $1,600. The ride is
excellent. It works very well for what I do (training, century's,
supported touring), climbs decently (although not as well as that
Orbea, that thing LEAPED up hills I swear). I've upgraded the seat &
post, had the LBS fit it to me and change the stem, and I'm currently
riding on my SO's old Rolf Sesteire wheels.

My point? Ride a bunch of bikes, be realistic about what you want it
to do (the Orbea would be a great RACE bike, but one ding in that
super-thin top tube and your buying a new frameset) and then buy what
you can afford and what make you smile. A 'better' frameset now will
pay off as you upgrade later.

Ken, still smiling.

Harris said:

Tectoron said:

Will anyone give me an advice?

Quoted message said:

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

It depends. Do you prefer to date blondes, brunettes, or redheads?

Good question. Which of these rides smoothest on undulating surfaces?

/Robert

I suggest you buy the one that will give you the confidence to get on
these message boards and let others know you have found the holy grail
for the best price. Do not consider how well it fits, but how many
carbon parts it has. Do not consider ride comfort, but do make sure
you know how many grams lighter it is than the bikes you did not
purchase. Make sure you have not researched any of your claims and
ensure you deny the degree to which all of this is subjective. Buy
the one that leaps up hills and is stiff in the bottom bracket with
excellent verticle compliance. Get the really expensive cranks so you
don't have to live with all the bending those crummy crank arms always
do. Get triple butted and swaged tubing because they are so much
better than anything with straight gague. Don't ever do a blind bike
test because first of all you might crash, but second of all it will
prove how completely subjective most of this stuff is. Sorry, I
couldn't resist.

[email hidden] (Tectoron) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Will anyone give me an advice?

What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

Tectoron

Quoted message said:

Will anyone give me an advice?

get the one that will make the people you ride with, envious of you.
isn't that what it's all about??

Actually, all things being equal, I would say that ti has some
advantages. First, it is harder to dent. Also, if you have grey
titanium, the bike will look exactly as when your first got it ten
years from now. titanium is more flexible than aluminum so it'll bend
and return to its normal shape. You can toss a ti frame down the
mountain, pick it up at the bottom, polish it, and it'll look new. Do
the same with an aluminum frame, and it'll be dented and scratched. I
have some ti eye-glass frames. I can bend them, twist them, play
soccer with them, and do all kinds of things. Unless I break them at
the welds, they are indestructible. also, because they are slightly
more flexible, they absorb the stress that would go into the wleds.
this frames have lsated me for years. In the past I used to change
frames once a year. eye glasses are not the same as bike frames
though.

Andres

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Will anyone give me an advice?
What should I choose, I have been offered a titanium frame (some years
old but never used) to the price of an (medium class) new aluminium
frame (ex. E Merxcks ALU Sprint).
Or should I buy an new aluminium frame.

Material is immaterial. Get the one that fits best. If both fit equally
well, I would lean towards the ti frame because a little scotch brite is
all you need to keep it looking good.
---------------
Alex

Robert said:

Good question. Which of these rides smoothest on undulating surfaces?

FIETS magazin just published a test they did on road vibrations. They put
loads of electronics on 3 bikes that they rode with the same wheelset.
The bikes were an aluminium bike, a carbon bike and a steel bike if I
remember well.

The carbon bike filtered out road vibrations a bit faster, but it was barely
noticeable.

Their conclusion was: the deciding factor is tyre pression. If you go from 8
to 5 bars they effect is FAR greater then the influence of any frame
material.

Greets, Derk

"Derk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert said:

Good question. Which of these rides smoothest on undulating surfaces?

FIETS magazin just published a test they did on road vibrations. They put
loads of electronics on 3 bikes that they rode with the same wheelset.
The bikes were an aluminium bike, a carbon bike and a steel bike if I
remember well.

The carbon bike filtered out road vibrations a bit faster, but it was

barely

Quoted message said:

noticeable.

Their conclusion was: the deciding factor is tyre pression. If you go from

8

Quoted message said:

to 5 bars they effect is FAR greater then the influence of any frame
material.

Greets, Derk

FIETS tested three bikes, which one of them happened to be carbon, the other
aluminium and the last one scandium. From this test you can not draw any
conclusion about the damping abilities of any particular material because
all tubes have different shapes. They just tested three bikes, not three
materials. Fortunately they came to the right conclusion. Material doesn't
matter, it's the tires and tire pressure that counts.

Lou

Derk said:

Robert said:

Good question. Which of these rides smoothest on undulating surfaces?

FIETS magazin just published a test they did on road vibrations. They put
loads of electronics

---8<---cutting results of test

No, no, I don't mean the frames . . . I was referring to the blondes,
brunettes, . . .

/Robert

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Actually, all things being equal,

If all things are equal, then at least one of the frames is poorly designed.

Quoted message said:

I would say that ti has some
advantages. First, it is harder to dent. Also, if you have grey
titanium, the bike will look exactly as when your first got it ten
years from now.

That is one advantage.

Quoted message said:

titanium is more flexible than aluminum so it'll bend
and return to its normal shape. You can toss a ti frame down the
mountain, pick it up at the bottom, polish it, and it'll look new. Do
the same with an aluminum frame, and it'll be dented and scratched.

If you believe this I have a bridge to sell you. The design is much
more important than the material.

Quoted message said:

I
have some ti eye-glass frames. I can bend them, twist them, play
soccer with them, and do all kinds of things. Unless I break them at
the welds, they are indestructible. also, because they are slightly
more flexible, they absorb the stress that would go into the wleds.
this frames have lsated me for years. In the past I used to change
frames once a year. eye glasses are not the same as bike frames
though.

When they start to make bikes out of the same ti alloy as they do
eyeglass frames, then you might be able to make a comparison.

---------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

titanium is more flexible than aluminum so it'll bend
and return to its normal shape. You can toss a ti frame down the
mountain, pick it up at the bottom, polish it, and it'll look new. Do
the same with an aluminum frame, and it'll be dented and scratched.

If you believe this I have a bridge to sell you. The design is much
more important than the material.

Alex: I don't disagree with you about design being very important. My
point is that if you have a properly designed Al and a properly
designed Ti frame for about the same price, and they both fit me, I'll
take the ti. this is a personal choice. I like the idea that grey ti
will look good for a long time. Also, if your hit an Al frame with
something sharp and hard, it'll dent a lot easier than Ti. If you
crash with a Ti frame and with an Al frame, there is a greater chance
that Al will snap. If you throw the properly deisgned Al frame down a
rocky cliff, it'll scratch and dent more than the Ti. frame. This is
not to say that you can have a great Al frame. Don't get me wrong. I
love aluminum. You can get a nice racing aluminum frame that will be
reasonably light for peanuts, sometimes under $100. It was probably
built in a superhuge facility in Korea or taiwan. With a low end
shimano group, you'll end up with a perfecly good racing bike for
nothing. I think that a low cost al frames is more than what anyone
needs in terms of performance. Put a few components and you are ready,
equipmentwise, for anything. So, costwise, i'll take the Al. If I want
something unscratchable and undentable to take abuse at a reasonable
price, I'll take ti.

Andres

Quoted message said:

---------------
Alex

Robert said:

Quoted message said:

It depends. Do you prefer to date blondes, brunettes, or redheads?

Good question. Which of these rides smoothest on undulating surfaces?

Or, more importantly, which of these undulates smoothest while
riding?
--
Rick Onanian

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:39:39 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I just trashed a Titanium frame that was cheap. It was fabricated in Russia
and the welds showed some discolouring that I discovered a week after I

You _discarded_ a titanium frame because of bad welds? I wish I had
been in your neighborhood on trash day...
--
Rick Onanian

On 10 Aug 2004 17:01:43 -0700, [email hidden] (eflayer2)

Quoted message said:

Get the really expensive cranks so you
don't have to live with all the bending those crummy crank arms always
do. Get triple butted and swaged tubing

Speaking of "cranks" and "triple", don't even consider a triple
crank, especially if you live or ride near any hills. Get a bike
with a 39-52 crank and a 13-22 cassette.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:39:39 +0200, Derk <[email hidden]>
wrote:
You _discarded_ a titanium frame because of bad welds? I wish I had
been in your neighborhood on trash day...

Not just bad welds: it looks like the welds have rust all over them. Several
people advised me not to continue riding this frame. It was still under
guearantee, so in my case "trashed" means "I stopped using it" (got another
frame on guarantee).

Greets, Derk

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Speaking of "cranks" and "triple", don't even consider a triple
: crank, especially if you live or ride near any hills. Get a bike
: with a 39-52 crank and a 13-22 cassette.

Don't you mean 42-55 and 11-19?

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook