Driving School Car!

I thought riding two-abreast was perfectly legal, if sometimes irritating to car drivers. And the driving school didn't know this?

Colin Davidson said:

it was partly our fault for being two-abreast.

Presumably the office of a driving school would have a copy of the
Highway Code handy. Perhaps you could ask them to point out the section
that indicates you were in the wrong.

I don't believe such a section exists.

d.

I said:

I don't believe such a section exists.

Actually, come to think of it, I suspect there must be such a section,
given the number of times I've experienced motorists disregarding the
normal rules about driving on the wrong side of the road when it's
'only' a cyclist coming the other way.

My edition of the Highway Code is apparently faulty as this section has
been left out.

d.

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Presumably the office of a driving school would have a copy of the
Highway Code handy. Perhaps you could ask them to point out the section
that indicates you were in the wrong.

I don't believe such a section exists.

Neither do I. But is it worth it when you're faced with such amazing
ignorance?

Colin Davidson said:

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Presumably the office of a driving school would have a copy of the
Highway Code handy. Perhaps you could ask them to point out the section
that indicates you were in the wrong.

I don't believe such a section exists.

Neither do I. But is it worth it when you're faced with such amazing
ignorance?

Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret not
having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then told
that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it was also my
fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass. If they can't
teach people to get it right as learners, what hope have we of drivers
knowing the highway code and driving with respect for other road
users?
--

email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

"audrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret not
having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then told
that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it was also my
fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass. If they can't
teach people to get it right as learners, what hope have we of drivers
knowing the highway code and driving with respect for other road
users?

You shouldn't slow down at a left turn because then it's your fault that
someone overtakes you? The correct approach therefore being to not slow down
for a corner?

What on earth was going through that instructors head?

Colin Davidson said:

"audrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret not
having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then told
that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it was also my
fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass. If they can't
teach people to get it right as learners, what hope have we of drivers
knowing the highway code and driving with respect for other road
users?

You shouldn't slow down at a left turn because then it's your fault that
someone overtakes you? The correct approach therefore being to not slow down
for a corner?

What on earth was going through that instructors head?

sorry I didn't explain properly ... the learner over took me just
before a left turn (I had signalled to turn left) forcing me to slow
down more than I would normally have done. The instructor said well
no she shouldn't've overtaken (so why didn't he tell her not to?) but
having done so, I had to slow down to allow her past. Hmm what about
that bit in highway code about not overtaking on approach to
junctions, and not driving in such a way as to force other road users
to slow down or change direction? Unfortunately I was too fired up at
the time to remember all relevant highway code entries. Or to remember
driving school details. Next time, tho, next time ...
--

email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

audrey said:

Colin Davidson said:

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Presumably the office of a driving school would have a copy of the
Highway Code handy. Perhaps you could ask them to point out the section
that indicates you were in the wrong.

I don't believe such a section exists.

Neither do I. But is it worth it when you're faced with such amazing
ignorance?

Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret not
having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then told
that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it was also my
fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass. If they can't
teach people to get it right as learners, what hope have we of drivers
knowing the highway code and driving with respect for other road
users?

Maybe in cases like these it might be worth complaining to the DSA
with the name of the driving school and the instructor. Enough
complaints about particular drivers and they may take action

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:22:52 +0100 someone who may be audrey
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

the learner over took me just
before a left turn (I had signalled to turn left)

That is one reason why signalling is something that should, be done
with thought.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:03:51 +0100 someone who may be "Colin
Davidson" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I went back in this morning and apparently while the pulil has been told
that this isn't the done thing (at least, shouting after the cyclist isn't
the done thing) it was partly our fault for being two-abreast. I'll admit to
having a loud rant in their office.

I hope you asked them to indicate which parts of the Highway Code
cover this.

I gather most driving instructors are self-employed and involved in
franchising. However, it might be worth asking the frachisor to
explain the claims of their franchisee.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't believe such a section exists.

144Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a
steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle
pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving
unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back
to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the
gap in front of you.

Of course , some people think this this is the only rule in the book
and that it applies only to everyone else.If one were expected to give
way to every vehicle behind you could not use the road except at the
speed of the fastest driver in the district.

I find it a very irritating rule, since it seems to give carte blanche
to the worst aggressive drivers.I suppose the idea is that they are
few and better in front of you than behind or alongside with engine
straining.

It does not say you have to stop to let people turn across your front,
but I also usually do when I see them coming.

TerryJ

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't believe such a section exists.

sorry, I got the postings mixed up again, my paragraph is not relevant to the op.

TerryJ

audrey wrote (of driving instructors):

Quoted message said:

If they can't
teach people to get it right as learners, what hope have we of drivers
knowing the highway code and driving with respect for other road
users?

A few years ago I was almost mown down on a zebra crossing by a solo
gentleman in a driving school car, who I assumed therefore to have been
an instructor. On the approach to the crossing he was bent down
fiddling with his radio, instead of watching where he was going.
Thankfully, I had rather more wits about my person than he did.

(Actually, he *did* look up just before the crossing and performed a
perfectly acceptable emergency stop).

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:01:08 +0100,

audrey said:

Quoted message said:

Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret not
having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then told
that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it was also my
fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass. If they can't
teach people to get it right as learners, what hope have we of drivers
knowing the highway code and driving with respect for other road
users?

Learner drivers are apt to do silly things and sometimes it isn't possible
or safe for the instructor to do something about it at that instant.

Unfortunately, I suspect that when a learner does do something dangerous
to a cyclist the instructor is unlikely to pick them up on it.

Some instructors do wave their thanks when a learner gets it wrong and
you have to compensate though. Most recently for me was when a learner
was indicating left but then turned right at a small roundabout. I had
initially joined the roundabout by the rear offside wing of the car
when I realised it wasn't going where I had expected. I was still just
behind the rear offside when it didn't take the second (sort of left)
exit either and continued around to take the exit I was also taking.
As the car left the roundabout I got a wave of thanks from the instructor.

I would suspect that learners have a lot of minor bumps and scrapes with
other cars but few of them are too serious (when with an instructor).
Unfortunately, for us cyclists, what would be a minor bump or scrape
with another car can be all too serious.

Tim.
--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret not
having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then told
that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it was also my
fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass.

The driving instructor was quite correct - if another road user does
something foolish, you have a duty to compensate for that to the best
of your ability. For example, if I am driving my car and I see a
cyclist making a turn across in front of me, even if I have the right
of way and am obeying the speed limit I should obviously slow down
instead of driving into them. All the DI said (by your account) was
that once the learner had made the mistake, you should adjust for it -
in this case by slowing down to make room for the car to pass safely
before the junction. That is a perfectly reasonable comment, one which
you will find repeated (as advice to car drivers, not cyclists) in any
number of driving manuals (and probably the Highway Code).

--
Peter Headland

In news:[email hidden],
Peter Headland <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Actually I think it is, in the case of driving schools. I regret
> not having a pen and paper to hand to note down details of driving
> instructor who let his learner over take me on a left turn, then
> told that while yes she shouldn't've over taken on junction, it
> was also my fault, as I should've slowed down to let them pass.

The driving instructor was quite correct - if another road user does
something foolish, you have a duty to compensate for that to the best
of your ability.

Well, the driving instructor's a road user in that they're partially in
control of the vehicle, not least by being able to tell the driver what to
do, and they didn't compensate for the driver being about to overtake by
telling them not to.

Of course, I'd read the "should've slowed down" warning as arrogance
covering a guilty conscience rather than a particularly strongly held belief
that cyclists should get out of the way, but you can't tell.

A

Peter Headland said:

All the DI said (by your account) was
that once the learner had made the mistake, you should adjust for it -

In normal circumstances, it's sensible to take into account that other
road users may not be as wise as you and may not always abide by the
rules of the road.

But are you seriously suggesting that it's right for a driving
/instructor/ to teach his pupils to not worry about behaving in the
correct fashion because other road users will adjust their behaviour to
compensate?

That's just bonkers.

d.

of urlhttp://groups.google.com/url said:

David Hansen said:

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 12:22:52 +0100 someone who may be audrey
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

the learner over took me just
before a left turn (I had signalled to turn left)

That is one reason why signalling is something that should, be done
with thought.

David - I wholeheartedly agree.

I have almost completely stopped signalling left.

A large number of motorists understimate the speed of bicycles (I think
they expect everyone to pootle along at 12mph), and I am constantly
being overtaken by vehicles which have no chance of completing their
manouver before they get to the junction.

In not signalling left I'm trying to discourage those who think they
can overtake me and turn left _at_the_same_time.

I put this right in the same bracket as claiming my lane and signalling
my intentions by road position.

I am the cyclist pootling along at 12 mph, but I am also overtaken by
vehicles that can't complete their manoeuvre without crossing my path. I
too have vastly reduced my signaling left. I only signal left if there is
no traffic beside or behind me in my direction and none coming towards me to
do a right turn into the junction. My left signals are only for the benefit
of pedestrians or traffic wishing to turn out of the junction I am turning
into.
--
...the great artists of the world are never Puritans, and seldom respectable.
No virtuous man--that is, virtuous in the Y.M.C.A. sense--has ever painted a
picture worth looking at, or written a symphony worth hearing,
or a book worth reading...
Henry Louis Mencken
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 05:42:21 +0100 someone who may be Steph Peters
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I only signal left if there is
no traffic beside or behind me in my direction and none coming towards me to
do a right turn into the junction. My left signals are only for the benefit
of pedestrians or traffic wishing to turn out of the junction I am turning
into.

I think this is a very sensible approach. My only niggle would be
that if pedestrians are crossing the junction then you must stop
until they are out of your path, so there is little point in
signalling left for them.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.