MTB - New Fork or New Bike?

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a Giant Boulder MTB from a couple of years ago, and the front
fork's shot. It's a fairly basic hardtail MTB - came with Alivio shifters,
Alivio rear mech, boggo front mech, no name v-brakes, and an RST Capa TL
front fork.

It seems to me like a decent fork's going to cost well over £150, whereas

a

Quoted message said:

new bike with decent fork and higher spec components isn't going to cost

me

Quoted message said:

an absolute shedload if I wait for next year's models to come out and get
one of this year's on sale. I wonder if more expensive bikes would have
lighter frames, but on the other hand, my bike does seem fairly light
(lighter than a mate's Ridgeback town bike) despite having basic

components.

Quoted message said:

Is the cheapest solution to upgrade this bike, or will I get the best

value

Quoted message said:

buying a new one? Do Giant and the other bike makers have a different

frame

Quoted message said:

for every different range of bike or do they fit different level

components

Quoted message said:

to the same frame? I suppose a third option would be to upgrade all the
components I break on this bike and get a new frame if I decide the bike's
being let down by the frame. Is the LBS likely to be worth asking.

If the bike is in otherwise good condition then if it were me I would look
at picking up a second hand fork to keep it going a few more years. Your
bike is almost certainly suited to short travel sus forks which a lot of
people are swapping out for longer travel versions. You can pick up a plain
but decent fork for about £50 - £80. Obviously you want to make sure you ask
questions etc before you buy and there is a risk but IMHO it would be worth
it. If you're in the UK try looking on http://www.singletrackworld.com/ or
bikemagic http://www.bikemagic.com/classifieds/classifieds.asp?v=2

Alternatively pickup a pair of rigids.

Steve.

spademan o---) * said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a Giant Boulder MTB from a couple of years ago, and the
front fork's shot. It's a fairly basic hardtail MTB - came with
Alivio shifters, Alivio rear mech, boggo front mech, no name
v-brakes, and an RST Capa TL front fork.

It seems to me like a decent fork's going to cost well over £150,
whereas a new bike with decent fork and higher spec components isn't
going to cost me an absolute shedload if I wait for next year's
models to come out and get one of this year's on sale. I wonder if
more expensive bikes would have lighter frames, but on the other
hand, my bike does seem fairly light (lighter than a mate's
Ridgeback town bike) despite having basic components.

Is the cheapest solution to upgrade this bike, or will I get the
best value buying a new one?
<snippage>

If the bike is in otherwise good condition then if it were me I would
look at picking up a second hand fork to keep it going a few more
years. Your bike is almost certainly suited to short travel sus forks
which a lot of people are swapping out for longer travel versions.

The current fork has about 50mm of travel - would I get away with an 80mm
travel fork or would this [censored] things up? The LBS bloke reckons I could just
alter the preload to drop the front if things seemed a bit high at the
front.

Quoted message said:

You can pick up a plain but decent fork for about £50 - £80.
Obviously you want to make sure you ask questions etc before you buy
and there is a risk but IMHO it would be worth it. If you're in the
UK try looking on http://www.singletrackworld.com/ or bikemagic
http://www.bikemagic.com/classifieds/classifieds.asp?v=2

I'll keep an eye out for second hand bits. If I buy say, a second hand
Marzocchi fork and it needs servicing, is it DIYable for someone with a bit
of mechnical aptitude or is it a take it to the shop job?

Quoted message said:

Alternatively pickup a pair of rigids.

Certainly the cheapest and lightest option, but I'd like to be vaguely
comfy.

Doki says:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alternatively pickup a pair of rigids.

Certainly the cheapest and lightest option, but I'd like to be vaguely
comfy.

Pah! Are you a man or a mouse? If you want "comfy", stay at home... ;-P

Steve <just kiddin'>

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

spademan o---[) * wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the bike is in otherwise good condition then if it were me I would
look at picking up a second hand fork to keep it going a few more
years. Your bike is almost certainly suited to short travel sus forks
which a lot of people are swapping out for longer travel versions.

The current fork has about 50mm of travel - would I get away with an 80mm
travel fork or would this [censored] things up? The LBS bloke reckons I could

just

Quoted message said:

alter the preload to drop the front if things seemed a bit high at the
front.

Hmm makes things a little more tricky, an 80mm fork will relax your head
angle by about a degree which you may or may not notice depending how picky
you are... As for altering the preload, I don't really see how this would
help, lowering the spring rate would be a better solution. This is obviously
much easier to do on an air-sprung fork otherwise you would have to buy a
new spring. Shorter forks do come along, depends how long you want to wait.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alternatively pickup a pair of rigids.

Certainly the cheapest and lightest option, but I'd like to be vaguely
comfy.

Its surprising how comfy a rigid fork and nice fat tyre can be.

Steve.

spademan o---) * said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

spademan o---[) * wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the bike is in otherwise good condition then if it were me I
would look at picking up a second hand fork to keep it going a few
more years. Your bike is almost certainly suited to short travel
sus forks which a lot of people are swapping out for longer travel
versions.

The current fork has about 50mm of travel - would I get away with an
80mm travel fork or would this [censored] things up? The LBS bloke reckons
I could just alter the preload to drop the front if things seemed a
bit high at the front.

Hmm makes things a little more tricky, an 80mm fork will relax your
head angle by about a degree which you may or may not notice
depending how picky you are...

I think I'd be better off with the bars a bit higher, so perhaps it'd all
end up even.

Quoted message said:

As for altering the preload, I don't
really see how this would help, lowering the spring rate would be a
better solution. This is obviously much easier to do on an air-sprung
fork otherwise you would have to buy a new spring. Shorter forks do
come along, depends how long you want to wait.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alternatively pickup a pair of rigids.

Certainly the cheapest and lightest option, but I'd like to be
vaguely comfy.

Its surprising how comfy a rigid fork and nice fat tyre can be.

Ideally I'd like something comfier than my 1.95" tyres and broken fork.
Though I suspect a fair few of my downhills are limited more by my terror
rather than the bike's capabilities 😄.

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

I've got a Giant Boulder MTB from a couple of years ago, and the front
fork's shot. It's a fairly basic hardtail MTB - came with Alivio
shifters, Alivio rear mech, boggo front mech, no name v-brakes, and an
RST Capa TL front fork.

It seems to me like a decent fork's going to cost well over £150,
whereas a new bike with decent fork and higher spec components isn't
going to cost me an absolute shedload if I wait for next year's models
to come out and get one of this year's on sale. I wonder if more
expensive bikes would have lighter frames, but on the other hand, my
bike does seem fairly light (lighter than a mate's Ridgeback town
bike) despite having basic components.

Wiggle are doing a great offer on Manitou Black Supers, which are a
*really* good fork <URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360013095>

If you think your frame is light enough and you're happy with your
current basic setup, I'd go for the fork and fit a front disk at the
same time. That will give you a substantially better bike.

Quoted message said:

I suppose a third option
would be to upgrade all the components I break on this bike and get a
new frame if I decide the bike's being let down by the frame.

That would be my advice. Unless there's a new bike you really want, of
course.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

I'll keep an eye out for second hand bits. If I buy say, a second hand
Marzocchi fork and it needs servicing, is it DIYable for someone with
a bit of mechnical aptitude or is it a take it to the shop job?

*Most* forks are DIY serviceable. If it's a RockShox I know you can
download the service manuals as PDFs. Probably can with most other
makers too.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

I'll keep an eye out for second hand bits. If I buy say, a second hand
Marzocchi fork and it needs servicing, is it DIYable for someone with
a bit of mechnical aptitude or is it a take it to the shop job?

*Most* forks are DIY serviceable. If it's a RockShox I know you can
download the service manuals as PDFs. Probably can with most other
makers too.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

I asked this group about servicing Marzocchis a few weeks ago after I became
really [censored]-off because Marzocchi won't release servicing instructions to
the hoi polloi aka "customers" (it is apparently not company policy.). I
received many useful replies including a link to this site -
http://inbred.gimpcupboard.com/manuals/. If you find a fork listed here
then fine; otherwise I would avoid Marzocchis.

Joe

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

spademan o---[) * wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmm makes things a little more tricky, an 80mm fork will relax your
head angle by about a degree which you may or may not notice
depending how picky you are...

I think I'd be better off with the bars a bit higher, so perhaps it'd all
end up even.

?? It would give a more 'relaxed' ride position if thats what you're after.

Steve.

Joe Roach said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

I'll keep an eye out for second hand bits. If I buy say, a second hand
Marzocchi fork and it needs servicing, is it DIYable for someone with
a bit of mechnical aptitude or is it a take it to the shop job?

*Most* forks are DIY serviceable. If it's a RockShox I know you can
download the service manuals as PDFs. Probably can with most other
makers too.

I asked this group about servicing Marzocchis a few weeks ago after I became
really [censored]-off because Marzocchi won't release servicing instructions to
the hoi polloi aka "customers" (it is apparently not company policy.). I
received many useful replies including a link to this site -
http://inbred.gimpcupboard.com/manuals/. If you find a fork listed here
then fine; otherwise I would avoid Marzocchis.

I'm quite surprised at this. AFAIR my bike with Marzocchi shocks came
with a service manual. Had I bothered servicing them, I'd know whether
it was up to scratch, but it definitely had pictures of how to take
them apart and suchlike. They were 2001 Bomber M3s

A

Joe Roach said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

I'll keep an eye out for second hand bits. If I buy say, a second hand
Marzocchi fork and it needs servicing, is it DIYable for someone with
a bit of mechnical aptitude or is it a take it to the shop job?

*Most* forks are DIY serviceable. If it's a RockShox I know you can
download the service manuals as PDFs. Probably can with most other
makers too.

I asked this group about servicing Marzocchis a few weeks ago after I became
really [censored]-off because Marzocchi won't release servicing instructions to
the hoi polloi aka "customers" (it is apparently not company policy.). I
received many useful replies including a link to this site -
http://inbred.gimpcupboard.com/manuals/. If you find a fork listed here
then fine; otherwise I would avoid Marzocchis.

I'm quite surprised at this. AFAIR my bike with Marzocchi shocks came
with a service manual. Had I bothered servicing them, I'd know whether
it was up to scratch, but it definitely had pictures of how to take
them apart and suchlike. They were 2001 Bomber M3s

A

Quoted message said:

Is the cheapest solution to upgrade this bike, or will I get the best
value buying a new one? Do Giant and the other bike makers have a
different frame for every different range of bike or do they fit
different level components to the same frame? I suppose a third
option would be to upgrade all the components I break on this bike
and get a new frame if I decide the bike's being let down by the
frame. Is the LBS likely to be worth asking.

Definitely upgrade to a new bike. The Boulder is the bottom-of-the-line out
of Giant's offerings. We sell them as back-to-school bikes that whose
primary purpose is to get left out in the rain.

Having said that, if you're tight on cash, then a rigid fork is definitely
the answer! The reason is, if you're breaking forks on these bikes (often
the first thing to go on these low-cost bikes) then that means you're
exceeding the intended use, which is, in all honesty, city riding and very
light trail riding. A rigid fork has virtually nothing to go wrong with it,
and any new low-cost suspension fork is probably going to break just like
your current fork. Upgrading the whole bike is a sound decision at this
point.

If you want to stay in the Giant line (which I recommend), you may want to
look into the Iguana. It has a non-[censored] fork that will last longer than
what you ad on the Boulder, plus disc brakes if that's your thing, and
decent-quality components.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Joe Roach" <[email hidden]> writes:

< > snip >> > >

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I asked this group about servicing Marzocchis a few weeks ago after I

became

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really [censored]-off because Marzocchi won't release servicing instructions

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the hoi polloi aka "customers" (it is apparently not company policy.).

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

received many useful replies including a link to this site -
http://inbred.gimpcupboard.com/manuals/. If you find a fork listed here
then fine; otherwise I would avoid Marzocchis.

I'm quite surprised at this. AFAIR my bike with Marzocchi shocks came
with a service manual. Had I bothered servicing them, I'd know whether
it was up to scratch, but it definitely had pictures of how to take
them apart and suchlike. They were 2001 Bomber M3s

A

This is part of the earlier reply I received:

"Since Marzocchi got sued by a bunch of idiots who can't follow directions
they took their service information away from the rest of us who can.
There's a couple of servers out there with some older manuals,"

So it is probably yet another one of these corporate policies recently
introduced in the name of "improving the customer experience", "enhancing
the brand", etc etc. Maybe they have had a bad dose Management Consultancy.

Have fun searching the Marzocchi site for those .pdf s.

Joe

Doki, the answer depends on the type of riding you (want to) do. The Boulder
is a recreational version of a mountain bike, with gentler geometry than
something made for singletrack riding. Being a recreational bike, the frame
build is probably not as durable as a dedicated off-road bike, although I
have no first-hand knowledge of the frame except that it is steel-tubed. If
this is a town ride, it may do just fine. If you intend to take into any
rough stuff other than gravel pathways, something a bit more substantial
might be in order.

The components you describe are all pretty low-end. They will work OK until
you challenge them or let them get dirty. Good gear works when challenged.

You might want to consider the used-bike market. Since bikes depreciate so
quickly, you can get some screaming deals on 2-3 year old bikes that would
have better components than you currently have, for less than a replacement
(at retail prices).

To your other question (do bike makers re-use one frame for several bike
models), the answer is normally Yes. For instance, I purchased a mid-range
Kona hardtail in 2000. The frame (geometry and construction) was shared by
several models, with mine being the lowest. Other models basically had
different paint jobs and component groups. I bought the bike because the
frame fit so well, and over the next year upgraded the fork, brakes and
shifters as good deals came along. Not sure if this frame-sharing
philosophy applies to Giant in their recreational line, tho.

Bottom line, if you want to cruise, your current bike is probably fine. A
new (old stock) fork can be had via the net for little £, and installed by
your LBS for a few shekels. Otherwise, grab a used bike with a frame that
fits, and consider upgrades from there.

Just my $.02

Doki, the answer depends on the type of riding you (want to) do. The Boulder
is a recreational version of a mountain bike, with gentler geometry than
something made for singletrack riding. Being a recreational bike, the frame
build is probably not as durable as a dedicated off-road bike, although I
have no first-hand knowledge of the frame except that it is steel-tubed. If
this is a town ride, it may do just fine. If you intend to take into any
rough stuff other than gravel pathways, something a bit more substantial
might be in order.

The components you describe are all pretty low-end. They will work OK until
you challenge them or let them get dirty. Good gear works when challenged.

You might want to consider the used-bike market. Since bikes depreciate so
quickly, you can get some screaming deals on 2-3 year old bikes that would
have better components than you currently have, for less than a replacement
(at retail prices).

To your other question (do bike makers re-use one frame for several bike
models), the answer is normally Yes. For instance, I purchased a mid-range
Kona hardtail in 2000. The frame (geometry and construction) was shared by
several models, with mine being the lowest. Other models basically had
different paint jobs and component groups. I bought the bike because the
frame fit so well, and over the next year upgraded the fork, brakes and
shifters as good deals came along. Not sure if this frame-sharing
philosophy applies to Giant in their recreational line, tho.

Bottom line, if you want to cruise, your current bike is probably fine. A
new (old stock) fork can be had via the net for little £, and installed by
your LBS for a few shekels. Otherwise, grab a used bike with a frame that
fits, and consider upgrades from there.

Just my $.02

Quoted message said:

Is the cheapest solution to upgrade this bike, or will I get the best value
buying a new one? Do Giant and the other bike makers have a different frame
for every different range of bike or do they fit different level components
to the same frame? I suppose a third option would be to upgrade all the
components I break on this bike and get a new frame if I decide the bike's
being let down by the frame. Is the LBS likely to be worth asking.

Howabout getting the new bike and as part of the deal asking the LBS
if they have an old pair of rigid forks to fit to the old bike to be
used as a hack.
One can never have too many bikes.
Iain

ZeeExSixAre said:

Quoted message said:

Is the cheapest solution to upgrade this bike, or will I get the best
value buying a new one? Do Giant and the other bike makers have a
different frame for every different range of bike or do they fit
different level components to the same frame? I suppose a third
option would be to upgrade all the components I break on this bike
and get a new frame if I decide the bike's being let down by the
frame. Is the LBS likely to be worth asking.

Definitely upgrade to a new bike. The Boulder is the
bottom-of-the-line out of Giant's offerings. We sell them as
back-to-school bikes that whose primary purpose is to get left out in
the rain.

Having said that, if you're tight on cash, then a rigid fork is
definitely the answer! The reason is, if you're breaking forks on
these bikes (often the first thing to go on these low-cost bikes)
then that means you're exceeding the intended use, which is, in all
honesty, city riding and very light trail riding. A rigid fork has
virtually nothing to go wrong with it, and any new low-cost
suspension fork is probably going to break just like your current
fork. Upgrading the whole bike is a sound decision at this point.

If I upgrade the bike, I reckon I'll be waiting until next year's models
come through and I can get one cheapo. I don't want to buy a bike and in 6
months see that I could have had it a load cheaper. I reckon a half decent
second hand fork is what I want now - rigid forks seem to be marketed as
"super super strong / light" and hence aren't *that* cheap. I'm also not
entirely sure there's much point in upgrading to a better / lighter bike at
the moment as I'm not tremendously light, or a particularly skilful rider.

Quoted message said:

If you want to stay in the Giant line (which I recommend), you may
want to look into the Iguana. It has a non-[censored] fork that will last
longer than what you ad on the Boulder, plus disc brakes if that's
your thing, and decent-quality components.

What difference will I see with better components? Obviously the bike's
going to be lighter, but does stuff work better / differently?

ZeeExSixAre said:

Quoted message said:

Is the cheapest solution to upgrade this bike, or will I get the best
value buying a new one? Do Giant and the other bike makers have a
different frame for every different range of bike or do they fit
different level components to the same frame? I suppose a third
option would be to upgrade all the components I break on this bike
and get a new frame if I decide the bike's being let down by the
frame. Is the LBS likely to be worth asking.

Definitely upgrade to a new bike. The Boulder is the
bottom-of-the-line out of Giant's offerings. We sell them as
back-to-school bikes that whose primary purpose is to get left out in
the rain.

Having said that, if you're tight on cash, then a rigid fork is
definitely the answer! The reason is, if you're breaking forks on
these bikes (often the first thing to go on these low-cost bikes)
then that means you're exceeding the intended use, which is, in all
honesty, city riding and very light trail riding. A rigid fork has
virtually nothing to go wrong with it, and any new low-cost
suspension fork is probably going to break just like your current
fork. Upgrading the whole bike is a sound decision at this point.

If I upgrade the bike, I reckon I'll be waiting until next year's models
come through and I can get one cheapo. I don't want to buy a bike and in 6
months see that I could have had it a load cheaper. I reckon a half decent
second hand fork is what I want now - rigid forks seem to be marketed as
"super super strong / light" and hence aren't *that* cheap. I'm also not
entirely sure there's much point in upgrading to a better / lighter bike at
the moment as I'm not tremendously light, or a particularly skilful rider.

Quoted message said:

If you want to stay in the Giant line (which I recommend), you may
want to look into the Iguana. It has a non-[censored] fork that will last
longer than what you ad on the Boulder, plus disc brakes if that's
your thing, and decent-quality components.

What difference will I see with better components? Obviously the bike's
going to be lighter, but does stuff work better / differently?

Doki said...

Quoted message said:

The current fork has about 50mm of travel - would I get away with an 80mm
travel fork or would this [censored] things up? The LBS bloke reckons I could just
alter the preload to drop the front if things seemed a bit high at the
front.

You can add more sag (up to the maximum recommended by the manual), but
I strongly doubt you will notice going from 50mm to 80mm. I went from 80
to 125 and liked the change. It was a more subtle change than I thought
it would be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Alternatively pickup a pair of rigids.

Certainly the cheapest and lightest option, but I'd like to be vaguely
comfy.

I would take a rigid fork over a cheap suspension fork any day. I went
to suspension because my rigid bike started giving me back pain. But
there are a lot of advantages to rigid--weight, cost, zero maintenance,
stiffness, durability etc.