training zones

Mansmind said:

I don't "feel" anerobic until my HR is in the mid to high 170's (judging by breathing and muscle fatigue).

Well by the way you are talking and the HRs you are providing I would say you are working your anaerobic system more often. The thing is that targeting 65-85% MaxHR is the MOST effective zone to work you aerobic system, but it is not the only way. Even when your heart rate increases and you are working your anaerobic system, your aerobic system will still see improvement (especially if you are "out of shape"😉.

I would suggest trying to slow down a bit and try and keep you HR down. Try and stay in the seat because that will help drop your HR a few beats. Its not fun or glorious to be crusing at 10mph but keeping to the aerobic zone will help you later on in your training.

Just another note, you are right on when talking about the 220-age. That is just a ballpark figure and can vary from athlete to athlete. There are more accurate formulas around. Personally I find a nice big hill, get my HR monitor going, and just ride until I almost black out. That point will basicly be your maxHR.

Hope this all helps a little.

Mansmind said:

That being the case, exactly how are you supposed to keep your heart-rate below 85% all the time? Even more importantly, do you really need to in order to get any endurance benefit? I certainly haven't, yet I can already tell a big difference in my endurance level.

You have to be geared properly in order to stay in this zone. Chances are that on steep hills above 7% or so, you won't be able to keep your HR below 85% even if you are in your lowest gear and your cadence is very low. Because you live in a hilly area, I recommend you do what I just did - buy a new rear cassette with a broader range of gears. Let's say you have a 13x25 cog rear cassette right now - go to a 13x30 rear cassette which will allow you to slow your roll on steep hills, maintain decent cadence, and not work too hard, thus keeping you in your zone.

That being said, you may still climb above 85% on some steep hills, but this is OK. There are various reasons why it is faster/more efficient to work harder on the uphills, and go slightly easier on the downhills (there are articles on this topic explaining why this is true). You obviously don't want to go totally anaerobic and burn your legs out, but bringing your heart rate a little out of your zone (above on climbs, and below on descents) is sometimes the most efficient way to ride through hilly terrain. Plus it's good to develop your anaerobic system as well as your aerobic system.

PSUCycler said:

Well by the way you are talking and the HRs you are providing I would say you are working your anaerobic system more often. The thing is that targeting 65-85% MaxHR is the MOST effective zone to work you aerobic system, but it is not the only way. Even when your heart rate increases and you are working your anaerobic system, your aerobic system will still see improvement (especially if you are "out of shape"😉.

I would suggest trying to slow down a bit and try and keep you HR down. Try and stay in the seat because that will help drop your HR a few beats. Its not fun or glorious to be crusing at 10mph but keeping to the aerobic zone will help you later on in your training.

Just another note, you are right on when talking about the 220-age. That is just a ballpark figure and can vary from athlete to athlete. There are more accurate formulas around. Personally I find a nice big hill, get my HR monitor going, and just ride until I almost black out. That point will basicly be your maxHR.

Hope this all helps a little.

Thanks for your thoughts!! I tend to think what you're saying is correct. The only real issue I have is going slower 🙂 Without having level ground, it "seems" impossible considering the kinds of hills I'm riding. Many of them are in the 15 - 20% grade range, and having a double as opposed to a triple chainring, combined with the length of the hills just seems to take my HR beyond 85%.

I suspect that will change "some" as I ride more. At some point it will be much more difficult to get my heart rate up that high even while climbing. At this point it's hard for me to imagine it not going above 156 though. Getting the trainer will help me get some lower HR training in, but until then those hills don't cooperate very well.

Incidentally, if I were REALLY doing that much ANEROBIC training.. shouldn't I have hit exhaustion at some point during my ride? I don't have anything to compare to personally, but it seems that riding over 3 hours with an average of 152 (considering it was much higher than this most of the time I was actually moving) would have exhausted me much more than it did. I was tired yes, but I didn't hit a wall at all.

Thanks for the response!

WINGNUTT said:

You have to be geared properly in order to stay in this zone. Chances are that on steep hills above 7% or so, you won't be able to keep your HR below 85% even if you are in your lowest gear and your cadence is very low. Because you live in a hilly area, I recommend you do what I just did - buy a new rear cassette with a broader range of gears. Let's say you have a 13x25 cog rear cassette right now - go to a 13x30 rear cassette which will allow you to slow your roll on steep hills, maintain decent cadence, and not work too hard, thus keeping you in your zone.

That being said, you may still climb above 85% on some steep hills, but this is OK. There are various reasons why it is faster/more efficient to work harder on the uphills, and go slightly easier on the downhills (there are articles on this topic explaining why this is true). You obviously don't want to go totally anaerobic and burn your legs out, but bringing your heart rate a little out of your zone (above on climbs, and below on descents) is sometimes the most efficient way to ride through hilly terrain. Plus it's good to develop your anaerobic system as well as your aerobic system.

That's pretty much what I'm practicing. I try to recover on the downhills to get my HR back down before climbing again. I just need longer downhills..lol. You may be right on the gearing, I'm currently running a 12/23 cassette.

Only having been riding for two weeks, it may straighten itself out rather quickly, or at least it seems to be moving that direction. We'll see.

Thanks!

Mansmind said:

That's pretty much what I'm practicing. I try to recover on the downhills to get my HR back down before climbing again. I just need longer downhills..lol. You may be right on the gearing, I'm currently running a 12/23 cassette.

Only having been riding for two weeks, it may straighten itself out rather quickly, or at least it seems to be moving that direction. We'll see.

Thanks!

Oh, BTW... if you want to get a new rear cassette, I got mine from http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris. I got their "Century Special" 13x30 and it seems like a good spread, but still maintains fairly tightly spaced gears. I def. recommend for your type of riding, especially if you find your cadence dropping below 70 on some climbs.

WINGNUTT said:

Oh, BTW... if you want to get a new rear cassette, I got mine from sheldonbrown.comharrisOpen ↗. I got their "Century Special" 13x30 and it seems like a good spread, but still maintains fairly tightly spaced gears. I def. recommend for your type of riding, especially if you find your cadence dropping below 70 on some climbs.

nice site!! thanks for the lead

Yea, I think WINGNUTT hit it right on. Mabye a 30 or even 34 cog rear cassette would help a bunch especially with a double in hilly terrain.

Quoted post said:

Incidentally, if I were REALLY doing that much ANEROBIC training.. shouldn't I have hit exhaustion at some point during my ride? I don't have anything to compare to personally, but it seems that riding over 3 hours with an average of 152 (considering it was much higher than this most of the time I was actually moving) would have exhausted me much more than it did. I was tired yes, but I didn't hit a wall at all.

[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana]As for this comment, your right you would be more exhausted if you were spending a ton of time in anaerobic workout. But to kind of back my earlier though, at the same time you are climbing and then descending, so your average HR is in the right spot but I bet on a graph you would have a lot of peaks and valleys. What you really want to get to is a steady HR in the aerobic zone. I'm just assuming all this from what you posted earlier, I'm not an expert so I could be off.[/font][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana][/font][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][font=Verdana]And if you can take 3 hrs of the hills keep it up, just try it without the break next time. 😉 Good luck![/font][/font]