Doping poll

jhuskey said:

How many out there are sick and tired of hearing the same old [censored].
Lance is doping.
Lance can only win one race.
Just curious I am raedy to move on.

Amen jhuskey. In fact I think I have decided to ignore any post that talks about Lance doping or that he can't win any other races. Ahem he just beat McEwan in a crit. It's pointless trying to defend. They will never convince us that he is and we will never convince them that he isn't.

I agree. I think that the folks on either side of the argument aren't going to be swayed it their opinions by further debate. Although I do admit that the "Lance is a doper" faction have (at very least) planted a few seeds of doubt in the back of my mind. Some of them have made some very good points. In the end I think it's best that we all just agree to disagree. At least until some new evidence or information is brought forth.

IMHO, they need to draw a line on the mountain, est. testing guidelines as of now, and say as of this day forward it will not be tolorated, period.

Do I believe doping is going on now, Yes. Do I believe everyone does it, No.
Do I think Lance is doping, NO. (again, my opinion)

I realize the test are not as accurate as people would like, but when you get tested as many times as some of the guys, and never have a positive, that has to put the odds in the favor of it's not happing.

Hopefully soon someone will create a test that is absolute, but until then we have to use what is available, and stand behind it.

Let's move on...

For the most part I feel the issue whether Lance is doping or not is based on emotion rather than objective facts. Most people, and I would include Walsh and his book in this lot, have made their opinion before they begin to look at the facts and then just pick the facts which suit them, ignoring the rest which don't.

I agree with you guys (gals?) - but to go a step further, I don't give a flying FARK whether Lance is doping or not. I've had ENOUGH of all this bullsh1t, and somehow the people who have the most to say spend most of their times on their backsides doing nothing but [censored] and moaning......

I'd like to challenge any one of THEM to do even a 30km roadrace (never mind a 30 km MTB race) in a respectable time...

Goosebeak said:

I agree with you guys (gals?) - but to go a step further, I don't give a flying FARK whether Lance is doping or not. I've had ENOUGH of all this bullsh1t, and somehow the people who have the most to say spend most of their times on their backsides doing nothing but [censored] and moaning......

I'd like to challenge any one of THEM to do even a 30km roadrace (never mind a 30 km MTB race) in a respectable time...

84 percent so far have heard enough. I just wish we could enforce the old Democratic rule theory.

ALL I have to say is...............I could take every drug enhancing product there is and I STILL WOULD NOT WIN THE THE TOUR de FRANCE.

So to me drugs or no drugs doesn't really make any difference..........The same people would still be the winners!

tinajoy said:

ALL I have to say is...............I could take every drug enhancing product there is and I STILL WOULD NOT WIN THE THE TOUR de FRANCE.

So to me drugs or no drugs doesn't really make any difference..........The same people would still be the winners!

That argument is not very valid! I dont think anyone has said that LA just takes drugs and wins the TDF. Drugs or no he must still put in 100% work or the drugs would be pointless. I agree this has been done to death! I believe the evidence has proven LA to be a Drug user, like the vast majority of his competitors. I will never convunce the diehard LA fans, who intern will never convince me! I still say the timeing of the book sucked

Fixey said:

I believe the evidence has proven LA to be a Drug user, like the vast majority of his competitors.

Wait, it's been proven? Source?

TrekDedicated said:

Wait, it's been proven? Source?

Certainly in the minds of those that would like to bring him down he is the spawn of Satan. I think it is mass hypnosis and there really is no Postal Team and Jan Ullrich has won 6.

Fixey said:

I believe the evidence has proven LA to be a Drug user, like the vast majority of his competitors.

Come on Fixey, What proof, Evidence????? You make a stament like that, about anyone, you need to show some proof.

Let's hear it, or see it, show me a link or an article with "FACTS" in it.

Try proving that they don't.... Try looking into where amateur athletics has gone doping wise today. A documentary two days ago entitled "Dying to Win" was aired in which the former head of the IOC Health Committee was interviewed... and he called the current Olympic anti-doping efforts to be "laughable." There is no current conclusive test to catch EPO, Human Growth Hormone or Testosterone... period. Do you honestly think professional cycling with all the money, prestige, sponsorship and team bragging rights is any different? ... my bet is its even worse and its not about to change anytime soon, and why should it. Best not stick your head behind any team bus curtains... your probably not going to like what you find. Ignorance is bliss ... now lets all get together and have one big Postie-group-hug! :p

fallen^sparrow 🙂

fallensparrow said:

Try proving that they don't....

So what you are trying to say is guilty till proven innocent? 😠

I'm saying use your eyes and ears and be aware of whats going in the sports world in general regarding doping and steroid use. When the officials in charge of producing doping test procedures (same ones as in cycling) flat out state that the whole thing is a sham and lost cause from the get go (and this is in athletics where most athletes live BELOW the poverty line)... you do the math. It just takes a little bit of common sense in human nature that if:

1. Huge salaries and sponsors who's want/need RESULTS in exchange for their fiscal risks.
2. Doping brings significant performance gains.
3. Today there is nearly zero chance of being caught... unless someone screws up REAL bad.
4. Its not even in WADAs best interest to actually disclose the true extent of doping.
5. No ones actually being hurt by allowing it to occur... accept potentially the pride of the paying public having been lied to for 15 years ?
6. The fact that nearly every other Olympic endurance/strength sport is (according to the IOC officials themselves) full of dopers and steroid users... but not cycling ?

And right there is the biggest risk... how will the PUBLIC respond if it comes to light that drug use has been prevalent in the sport for years? Will they become disillusioned enough in their "fallen heros" to stop attending/watching huge events like the TdF? This would have disasterous implications on the sponsors/teams/athletes and ultimately the host nations. How happy would the government of France be if all those 100,000s of tourists stopped coming to the Tour because: "They all are just cheaters/dopers anyway"? I don't think it would take much for UCI/WADA officials to be convinced to "put in a good show" but at the same time... not try real hard either. 😉

fallen^sparrow

fallensparrow said:

There is no current conclusive test to catch EPO, Human Growth Hormone or Testosterone... period.

Not sure on the EPO or HGH, but there are tests for Testosterone levels, I know, I get tested every 3 months, a blood test. I have a condition in my Thyroid that cause my Testosterone levels to go up and down. Some months I have to take injections to raise the level into the "normal" range.

Metalleg said:

Not sure on the EPO or HGH, but there are tests for Testosterone levels, I know, I get tested every 3 months, a blood test. I have a condition in my Thyroid that cause my Testosterone levels to go up and down. Some months I have to take injections to raise the level into the "normal" range.

The test isn't conclusive because IOC has a max "normal" testosterone level by which male athletes are tested against...similar to the %50 max hemocrit level. Nearly all athletes are naturally significantly below the max "normal" testosterone given... so they can artificially "boost" their testosterone level up to that max point but not over it and still never register as having a positive steroid test... but still see significant performance enhancements.

fallen^sparrow 🙂

I'm not over the debate.

I am over the Lance Armstrong specific debate - neither side will concede on the LA issue and both sides viewpoints ought to be respected.

I think the drug issue debate throughout cycling as a sport is important and I think fans want to see a clean sport (this may be a Utopian objective but I think that's what we need to strive for).
It is us fans who keep the viewing numbers up, buy the replica apparel and buy the bikes : so our voice needs to be heard and heeded by those in power.

limerickman said:

I'm not over the debate.

I am over the Lance Armstrong specific debate - neither side will concede on the LA issue and both sides viewpoints ought to be respected.

I think the drug issue debate throughout cycling as a sport is important and I think fans want to see a clean sport (this may be a Utopian objective but I think that's what we need to strive for).
It is us fans who keep the viewing numbers up, buy the replica apparel and buy the bikes : so our voice needs to be heard and heeded by those in power.

That is the pretty much what I wanted to say. I am not saying close your eyes to misconduct but don't crucify one person because you have suspicions the general direction of the sport is unethical.

jhuskey said:

That is the pretty much what I wanted to say. I am not saying close your eyes to misconduct but don't crucify one person because you have suspicions the general direction of the sport is unethical.

Well stated jhuskey and I'm in total agreement. Lance has done so much for cycling and racing in N.A. and had a immense positive impact on so many the world over that the least we could do is not specifically target him... show the man the respect he truely deserves.

*says a silent pray for Pantini... he wasn't so lucky*

fallen^sparrow 🙂