pedaling technique

In news:[email hidden],
dannyboy1206 <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

Much much better to spin the legs in relatively low gears. I can't remember
the reasons at the moment, but it just works for me, and is the received
wisdom from those in the know.

A

dannyboy1206 said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

Cheers

Well I've got dodgy knees, and found spinning in low gears was a lot
easier on them - but only once I'd got the saddle high enough that the
position wasn't bad, till I did that spinning was very bad for them!

I think if you can maintain the spin up hills then it's probably the
better way to do it, but if you have strong knees and don't *overdo*
it in higher gears you might find you prefer a higher gear - I think it
depends on the person.

I found spinning very tiring initially, and my rpm would have been about
60-70 by choice - these days I only do that if I'm coasting along -
normal riding cadence is 80-95, peaking at 105-110 on rare occasions.

I change between spin and high gears depending on the gradient and wind,
and how the legs feel - sometimes it's nice to give hte spinning a rest
and use the muscles differently for a short distance before going back
to spinning along again.
--

Velvet

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
dannyboy1206 <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

I don't know about building muscle endurance quicker, you'll certainly wreck
your knees quicker.

Pedalling a little faster in an easier gear is the way to go, the
cardiovascular system pumps better and you will keep a better average speed.
And you won't wreck your trusty knees.

Burns more calories too if I'm not mistaken.

Alan

On 28 Jul 2004 13:44:24 -0700, [email hidden] (dannyboy1206)

wrote in message : said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

High gears, slow cadence: Ullrich
Low gears, fast cadence: Armstrong.

Who won? ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Everyone's different though. There can surely be no "right" or "wrong"
way - it's whatever suits you. Ullrich does use low cadence yet still came
second up Alpe D'huex time trial - against high cadence spinners. It must
surely depend on the muscularity of the legs. Not that I am an expert, I'd
be the first to admit. I must say though that I favour the low cadence
approach; but then again I'm a very big guy.
MS

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 28 Jul 2004 13:44:24 -0700, [email hidden] (dannyboy1206)

wrote in message : said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

High gears, slow cadence: Ullrich
Low gears, fast cadence: Armstrong.

Who won? ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:26:35 +0100, "Meschersmit" <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Everyone's different though. There can surely be no "right" or "wrong"
way - it's whatever suits you. Ullrich does use low cadence yet still came
second up Alpe D'huex time trial - against high cadence spinners. It must
surely depend on the muscularity of the legs. Not that I am an expert, I'd
be the first to admit. I must say though that I favour the low cadence
approach; but then again I'm a very big guy.

I go much faster and with far fewer joint problems since I increased
my cruising cadence from 80-odd to 100+. I am not particularly big,
at 6'1" and 13st.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

(dannyboy1206) said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears

There isn't a rule; it's really down to what suits you best. Both
techniques have produced great champions.

Spinning low gears is easier on the muscles and joints and arguably produces
more responsivity (if you suddenly need to sprint uphill for example) It
also /tends/ to increase the heart rate.

*Churning* high gears may also be desirable, but only if you have built up
good leg strength. It can be (maybe for psychological reasons, I don't
know) less tiring on long rides. This is the technique I prefer. It does
require getting into a good rolling rhythm, though. Once you feel you are
*grinding*, it's time to change down.

I suggest you experiment and find out what suits best.

Ian

dannyboy1206 said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

Cheers

Spinning has to be the way to go, within reason. People who churn might not be harming themselves, but then again they might without realising, so do anything to reduce that possibility. You will never get a new pair of knees.

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:55:20 GMT, "Mr. Alan Paterson"

[email protected] said:

I don't know about building muscle endurance quicker, you'll certainly wreck
your knees quicker.

I see this written here all the time and by so many different people.
I always end up thinking, there's so many of 'em, they can't all be
wrong... but it always niggles in the back of my mind.

Is it really going to make that much of a difference? Are our knees
really put at risk by a habit of pushing a slightly higher gear?

I wonder what the difference is in terms of actual pressure and
working load in the knee between moving at a given speed with a
cadence of say 65 and that same speed at 85rpm. Is one really going to
be measurably more damaging to your knee than the other?

Spinning at a higher cadence would I suppose slightly lower the
pressures in the knee, but at the same time it forces the joint into
many more repetitions for the same amount of work. Is there any
science to prove the knee is better adapted for this?

Okay, I'm no bio-mechanical expert (or novice even) so I accept my
understanding could be way out here, but surely cycling either way
(spinning or pushing higher gear) is less stressful for the knee than
running, climbing stairs and even walking? After all, most of our
weight is supported by bum and arms when cycling so the pressure on
the joint is much reduced from it's normal working conditions anyway.

The knee is only doing what it has evolved to do (not exactly, I grant
you, but pretty bloody close). Plus, our knees are designed to put up
with a lot more grief then our modern sedentary lifestyles ask of
them.

*shrug*

Well, there you go, I've said it out loud now for all to hear. That's
what goes through my mind everytime I read the "it'll bugger your
knees" line.

You can all point out my ignorance and stupidity now. I promise to
take it like a man...

🙂
--

"Bob"

'The people have spoken, the [censored]'

Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

"Call me Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The knee is only doing what it has evolved to do (not exactly, I grant
you, but pretty bloody close). Plus, our knees are designed to put up
with a lot more grief then our modern sedentary lifestyles ask of
them.

*shrug*

Well, there you go, I've said it out loud now for all to hear. That's
what goes through my mind everytime I read the "it'll bugger your
knees" line.

You can all point out my ignorance and stupidity now. I promise to
take it like a man...

🙂

Sometimes I cycle like Ullrich, sometimes like Armstrong... never, ever, as
well though.

you know? said:

On 28 Jul 2004 13:44:24 -0700, [email hidden] (dannyboy1206)

wrote in message : said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

High gears, slow cadence: Ullrich
Low gears, fast cadence: Armstrong.

Who won? ;-)

Not that simple though. Shirley the Ulrich line should read

High gears, slow cadence, eat pies all witer.

Tim

Velvet said:

dannyboy1206 said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

Cheers

Well I've got dodgy knees, and found spinning in low gears was a lot
easier on them - but only once I'd got the saddle high enough that the
position wasn't bad, till I did that spinning was very bad for them!

I think if you can maintain the spin up hills then it's probably the
better way to do it, but if you have strong knees and don't *overdo*
it in higher gears you might find you prefer a higher gear - I think it
depends on the person.

I found spinning very tiring initially, and my rpm would have been about
60-70 by choice - these days I only do that if I'm coasting along -
normal riding cadence is 80-95, peaking at 105-110 on rare occasions.

I change between spin and high gears depending on the gradient and wind,
and how the legs feel - sometimes it's nice to give hte spinning a rest
and use the muscles differently for a short distance before going back
to spinning along again.

<fx: clink of tuppence hitting the pot>

I too change between pedalling cadences quite a lot. On the flat my
cadence is usually around 90-95, however on the uphill stuff I quite
often find I arrive at the top of a hill in the best condition if I
drop my cadence to the low 70s. I suspect body type has much to do with
this. As a mesomorph I have a lot of weight to drag up a hill, those
bloody weeny little ectomorphs have a much easier time of it... I guess
my muscle and bone structure is just better suited to grinding a bigger
gear than spinning, up hills. As a recreational cyclist and someone who's
never had any kind of joint pain or problems, I figure that I'm in no real
danger of damaging my knees, though if I ever do start to get twinges...
I'll re-evaluate asap.

--
Alex
BMW R1150GS
DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk
Windy's "little soldier"

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:11:17 +0100, Call me Bob
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:55:20 GMT, "Mr. Alan Paterson"

[email protected] said:

I don't know about building muscle endurance quicker, you'll certainly wreck
your knees quicker.

I see this written here all the time and by so many different people.
I always end up thinking, there's so many of 'em, they can't all be
wrong... but it always niggles in the back of my mind.

Is it really going to make that much of a difference? Are our knees
really put at risk by a habit of pushing a slightly higher gear?

Yep - they really are.

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

dannyboy1206 said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

Riding on the flat with the wind at my back, as was the case with the
first half of my ride yesterday evening, I kept up a steady 105 rpm for
around 20 minutes and it felt fantastic - my legs were going round
easily with no sensation of stress on either muscles or joints. Over
that part of the route I was averaging well over 20mph.

Then I hit the one big hill on my route, my cadence dropped to 65-70 and
suddenly my legs felt very tired. I managed to get up it quite well
(keeping up a steady 8mph) but only by pushing quite hard - and in a
gear that was probably too high - and by the time I got to the top my
knees were starting to feel sore. Near the top, I tried dropping to a
lower gear and spinning, but I just couldn't get my legs going round
fast enough to make it count.

So, yes, spinning does work and is a lot easier on the knees than
pushing, but hills do tend to throw a bit of a spanner in the works.
However, I would much rather encounter the occasional hill and suffer
through it than sit on an exercise bike in a gym.

d.

I am surprised it took 5 posts before the name Armstrong was mentioned. Anyone would think he invented pedalling. High cadence has been the recommendation for years. I can't remember the reasons why but it comes failry naturally now.

Meschersmit said:

It must
surely depend on the muscularity of the legs. Not that I am an expert, I'd
be the first to admit. I must say though that I favour the low cadence
approach; but then again I'm a very big guy.

Well, they always say that Ullrich can pump round the big gears at high
speeds because of his "big engine" - I'm not entirely sure what that
means, but I suspect it translates into a much higher proportion of
"fast twitch" muscle fibres than the average person, which would enable
him to work harder for longer than the average person.

Spinning uses the "slow twitch" parts of the muscles, which makes it
easier to sustain for a longer period, and in theory anyone should be
able to ride like that, even Ullrich.

To do it to Armstrong's level doesn't rely on muscle type so much as
excellent technique, intense concentration and lots and lots of
practise. I think the real reason Ullrich can't ride like that is
because he is too set in his ways.

d.

MSeries said:

I am surprised it took 5 posts before the name Armstrong was mentioned.
Anyone would think he invented pedalling. High cadence has been the
recommendation for years.

Quite right. I have a 1989 book that recommends a cadence of 80-100 on
flat or slightly undulating roads. It mentions that UK time trialists
commonly used cadences of 110-120 between the world wars but the theory
subsequently changed to 60-70. Obviously the pendulum has now swung back.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "They never open their mouths without subtracting from
the sum of human knowledge." - Thomas Brackett Reed
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

davek said:

dannyboy1206 said:

What is the rule when you are pedaling do you spin your legs in lower
gears or do churn the legs round in high gears.Some people say you
build muscle endurance quicker in the higher gears but other people
say it damages your knees can anyone help.

Riding on the flat with the wind at my back, as was the case with the
first half of my ride yesterday evening, I kept up a steady 105 rpm for
around 20 minutes and it felt fantastic - my legs were going round
easily with no sensation of stress on either muscles or joints. Over
that part of the route I was averaging well over 20mph.

Then I hit the one big hill on my route, my cadence dropped to 65-70 and
suddenly my legs felt very tired. I managed to get up it quite well
(keeping up a steady 8mph) but only by pushing quite hard - and in a
gear that was probably too high - and by the time I got to the top my
knees were starting to feel sore. Near the top, I tried dropping to a
lower gear and spinning, but I just couldn't get my legs going round
fast enough to make it count.

So, yes, spinning does work and is a lot easier on the knees than
pushing, but hills do tend to throw a bit of a spanner in the works.
However, I would much rather encounter the occasional hill and suffer
through it than sit on an exercise bike in a gym.

d.

You need to change down sooner. ;-)
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He had delusions of adequacy." - Walter Kerr
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

MSeries <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I am surprised it took 5 posts before the name Armstrong was mentioned.
: Anyone would think he invented pedalling. High cadence has been the
: recommendation for years.

What's different is the cadence he climbs at. Though of course the
old guys were climbing the Alps on a 44 small ring so didn't have
much option about spinning up the hills!

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook