Merckx lambasts Armstrong

pretty much what i was thinking, especially after his choosing not to contest the end at Amstel.
but, he has always rode arrogantly, and that is his style. he thought he could ride richard off
his wheel in LBL 96 and boogard in amstel. i dont think he is the cagiest rider out there by a
long shot.

i also think his "targeted" training techniques and his unwillingness to contest other major races
in the world besides the TDF is beginning to get on some nerves. i dont buy the inability to peak
but only one time a year argument. almost all the major stage racers in europe contest 2 of the big
3, or at least make a showing in one to train for the other.

he will be looked at thru history as a great TDF champion who has a tremendous story, but he will be
tarnished by the above, IMO.

that being said, if is wasnt for CSC hammering and if LBL ended on a 20km climb, then we wouldnt be
having this discussion......armstrong would have never come back.

chris

Quoted message said:

Subject: Merckx lambasts Armstrong From: "tispectrum" [email hidden] Date: 4/29/03 9:12 AM
Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance Armstrong look to have coolled
severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege race, the fifth leg of the World Cup. And Merckx,
who won five Tour titles in a career that included three world titles and seven victories in the
Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong - following his 20th place in a race he had claimed he would win -
has "overestimated" himself. "He was supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to him, it was a
formality and his rivals never even had a look in," Merckx, who is normally a close confidante of
Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I think he overestimated
himself. Armstrong was not as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress me." Merckx's
outburst was given momentum by an incident which occured in the final stages of the one-day classic
when Armstrong sailed past Merckx's son Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto team, on the Tilff
climb. Merckx junior had made a futile breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's apparent acceleration as
he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For Merckx, who was watching
as a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong dealt out to rival Jan
Ullrich during the climb to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to alter his opinion on the
man to whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted cancer in 1996. Merckx added:
"Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic Games. He came up behind him with
200 metres to go to finally finish fourth. "I can't understand his logic. By leaving Axel in his
trail on Sunday, he effectively ended his own hopes of winning. Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong,
having twice finished runner-up, looked en route to winning his first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the
oldest of the one-day classics having first been held in 1892 - after chasing down Axel Merckx in
the final 20 kilometres. However the 31-year-old American was engulfed in the chasing peloton in
the last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was outdone by former team-mate Tyler
Hamilton (CSC), who became the first American to win the "doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the
race - having trained specifically for the victory all week - will be seen by some as a blow to his
Tour preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his
humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row
in July has not been compromised. "I think he (Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always
telling him how great he is that he believes he can say and do everything. "And, while he's
American and it's in his mentality to believe all that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As
for the Tour, that's something else. But his team might cause him a few problems. (Viatcheslav)
Ekimov (37 years old) is not getting any younger and (George) Hincapie is having trouble getting
back from his injuries. "That said, Armstrong is still Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's
got the advantage."

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Tom Schulenburg said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
someone won a classic and the TdF in the same year?

Riis 1997, actually he was the previous year tour winner.

Quoted message said:

I can see Lance's point about not racing for second. Why risk injury with nothing on the line? Most
of the riders he was contending with were fighting for worldcup points, sponsor recognition,
contracts for next year, etc. Lance is not worried about any of that. The win means something,
nothing else matters.

Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have had a better chance if they
worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.

-T

___________________
Keith www.gpspassion.com All things GPS and PocketPC

Quoted message said:

that being said, if is wasnt for CSC hammering and if LBL ended on a 20km climb, then we wouldnt be
having this discussion......armstrong

you mean Hamilton, right?

Quoted message said:

would have never come back.

___________________
Keith www.gpspassion.com All things GPS and PocketPC

There was no LOOK that i saw this time. This is all balloney.

But the Eddy sour grapes in the live report are true. And pitiful for a legend like him.

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Schulenburg said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
someone won a classic and the TdF in the same

year?

Quoted message said:

Riis 1997, actually he was the previous year tour winner.

Doesn't count. A quick check goes back to '81 when Hinault won Amstel and Roubaix. Like I said,
things have changed in the last 20 years.

-T

"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There was no LOOK that i saw this time. This is all balloney.

But the Eddy sour grapes in the live report are true. And pitiful for a legend like him.

No kidding.

Has any single rider humiliated more of his contemporaries with on-the-bike displays of superiority
than Eddy Merckx? He is The King in that regard and there is no close second.

I think a lot of the tone read into this is due to translation to English. I don't think Lance meant
to diss Axel nor do I think Eddy meant to diss Lance. I think he probably just meant to say that
Lance wasn't as strong as many thought he was.

Mark VandenBerghe

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance

Armstrong

Quoted message said:

look to have coolled severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege

race,

Quoted message said:

the fifth leg of the World Cup. And Merckx, who won five Tour titles in a career that included
three world titles and seven victories in the Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong -

following

Quoted message said:

his 20th place in a race he had claimed he would win - has "overestimated" himself. "He was
supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to him, it was a formality and his rivals never even
had a look in," Merckx, who is

normally

Quoted message said:

a close confidante of Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I
think he overestimated himself. Armstrong was

not

Quoted message said:

as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress me." Merckx's outburst was given momentum
by an incident which occured in the final stages of the one-day classic when Armstrong sailed past
Merckx's

son

Quoted message said:

Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto team, on the Tilff climb. Merckx junior had made a futile
breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's

apparent

Quoted message said:

acceleration as he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For Merckx,
who was watching as a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong dealt out
to rival Jan Ullrich during the

climb

Quoted message said:

to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to alter his opinion on the

man

Quoted message said:

to whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted cancer in 1996. Merckx added:
"Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic Games. He came up behind him with
200 metres to go to finally

finish

Quoted message said:

fourth. "I can't understand his logic. By leaving Axel in his trail on Sunday, he effectively
ended his own hopes of winning. Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong, having twice finished
runner-up, looked en route to winning his first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the oldest of the one-day
classics having

first

Quoted message said:

been held in 1892 - after chasing down Axel Merckx in the final 20 kilometres. However the
31-year-old American was engulfed in the chasing peloton in

the

Quoted message said:

last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was outdone by former team-mate Tyler Hamilton
(CSC), who became the first American to win the "doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the race -
having trained specifically for the victory all week - will be seen by some as a blow to his Tour
preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his
humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row
in July has not been compromised. "I think he (Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always
telling him how great he is that he believes he can say and do everything. "And, while he's
American and it's in his mentality to believe all that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As
for the Tour, that's something else. But his team might cause him a

few

Quoted message said:

problems. (Viatcheslav) Ekimov (37 years old) is not getting any younger

and

Quoted message said:

(George) Hincapie is having trouble getting back from his injuries. "That said, Armstrong is still
Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's got the advantage."

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Quoted message said:

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Bart said:

But the Eddy sour grapes in the live report are true. And pitiful for a legend like him.

Well, Bruyneel himself said that Lance's breakaway mates weren't helping. He should have waited to
loose his final salvo, or combined with someone more willing/able to stay away. A tactical error on
his part, probably fuelled by his own self-perception of invulnerability, at least to some extent.
If he had allowed Axel to latch on and recover they might have held off the CSC lead chase and Lance
could have dancd up the final climb alone. Merckx' comments are also colored by the fact that he
perceives that Lance has insuled his own son. Who wouldn't "overreact"? I believe that whatever
repoir existed between Lance and Eddy has been damaged if not destroyed.

Greg

[email hidden] (Jamce1) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

pretty much what i was thinking, especially after his choosing not to contest the end at Amstel.
but, he has always rode arrogantly, and that is his style. he thought he could ride richard off
his wheel in LBL 96 and boogard in amstel. i dont think he is the cagiest rider out there by a
long shot.

i also think his "targeted" training techniques and his unwillingness to contest other major races
in the world besides the TDF is beginning to get on some nerves. i dont buy the inability to peak
but only one time a year argument. almost all the major stage racers in europe contest 2 of the
big 3, or at least make a showing in one to train for the other.

he will be looked at thru history as a great TDF champion who has a tremendous story, but he will
be tarnished by the above, IMO.

Lance has not tarnished his career, but he is not riding to his potential. But it's probably a rush
to judge Armstrong on a single race. I can sort of understand why Lance does want to race all the
time. There is might be a plausible explanation for avoiding the Giro. On the otherhand Lance simply
has no excuse for abandoning the fall season. I do respect Lance for having the humility to admit
that he is not as great as Eddy Hinault unlike Lemond. There is however the principle of "leadership
by example" and Lance has largely shown that.

Quoted message said:

that being said, if is wasnt for CSC hammering and if LBL ended on a 20km climb, then we wouldnt
be having this discussion......armstrong would have never come back.

chris

Quoted message said:

Subject: Merckx lambasts Armstrong From: "tispectrum" [email hidden] Date: 4/29/03 9:12
AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance Armstrong look to have coolled
severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege race, the fifth leg of the World Cup. And
Merckx, who won five Tour titles in a career that included three world titles and seven victories
in the Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong - following his 20th place in a race he had claimed he
would win - has "overestimated" himself. "He was supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to
him, it was a formality and his rivals never even had a look in," Merckx, who is normally a close
confidante of Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I think he
overestimated himself. Armstrong was not as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress
me." Merckx's outburst was given momentum by an incident which occured in the final stages of the
one-day classic when Armstrong sailed past Merckx's son Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto
team, on the Tilff climb. Merckx junior had made a futile breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's
apparent acceleration as he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For
Merckx, who was watching as a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong
dealt out to rival Jan Ullrich during the climb to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to
alter his opinion on the man to whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted
cancer in 1996. Merckx added: "Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic
Games. He came up behind him with 200 metres to go to finally finish fourth. "I can't understand
his logic. By leaving Axel in his trail on Sunday, he effectively ended his own hopes of winning.
Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong, having twice finished runner-up, looked en route to winning his
first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the oldest of the one-day classics having first been held in 1892 -
after chasing down Axel Merckx in the final 20 kilometres. However the 31-year-old American was
engulfed in the chasing peloton in the last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was
outdone by former team-mate Tyler Hamilton (CSC), who became the first American to win the
"doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the race - having trained specifically for the victory all
week - will be seen by some as a blow to his Tour preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's
opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to
equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row in July has not been compromised. "I think he
(Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always telling him how great he is that he believes
he can say and do everything. "And, while he's American and it's in his mentality to believe all
that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As for the Tour, that's something else. But his team
might cause him a few problems. (Viatcheslav) Ekimov (37 years old) is not getting any younger
and (George) Hincapie is having trouble getting back from his injuries. "That said, Armstrong is
still Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's got the advantage."

I think Merckx was criticising Armstrong for treating a World Cup event as a mere training race.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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"Tom Schulenburg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time.

The excuse that "racing has changed" is used quite often when comparing Eddy to Armstrong. I agree
that racing has gotten considerably harder and there is a need to pick and choose races. But a more
important question to ask is it good for the sport of cycling.................???

Just out of curiosity,

Quoted message said:

When was the last time someone won a classic and the TdF in the same year? I can see Lance's point
about not racing for second. Why risk injury with nothing on the line? Most of the riders he was
contending with were fighting for worldcup points, sponsor recognition, contracts for next year,
etc. Lance is not worried about any of that. The win means something, nothing else matters.

Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have had a better chance if they
worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.

-T

who is Eddy Hinault??

"Heinz Getzler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Schulenburg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time.

The excuse that "racing has changed" is used quite often when comparing Eddy to Armstrong. I agree
that racing has gotten considerably harder and there is a need to pick and choose races. But a
more important question to ask is it good for the sport of cycling.................???

Just out of curiosity,

Quoted message said:

When was the last time someone won a classic and the TdF in the same

year?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can see Lance's point about not racing for second. Why risk injury

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nothing on the line? Most of the riders he was contending with were

fighting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for worldcup points, sponsor recognition, contracts for next year, etc. Lance is not worried
about any of that. The win means something, nothing else matters.

Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have

had a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

better chance if they worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.

-T

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Has any single rider humiliated more of his contemporaries with

on-the-bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

displays of superiority than Eddy Merckx? He is The King in that regard

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there is no close second.

And the problem with that is?

There isn't a problem with that, however, Eddy needs to look in the mirror before making remarks
like the ones we are discussing in this thread. Capiche?

Heinz Getzler said:

I do respect Lance for having the humility to admit that he is not as great as Eddy Hinault
unlike Lemond.

And where did Lemond say he was as great as "Eddy Hinault"? (I think you meant Merckx.)

"Tom Schulenburg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
someone won a classic and the TdF in the same year?

SNIP

When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent history
(heck the last decade or more) the TDF has been dominated by two people who were particularly single
minded. I don't think the rest of the podium/top tenners can be called one race a year riders.

Another problem is the moving of the Worlds to October and the Veulta to the fall. Used to be the
TDF winner had some incentive to carry on racing, and we used to see them kicking ass in the post
tour big races cause everyone else was so shelled from the tour.

just my 2 peso's

J

"Tony" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<3eaf4a16@info-int>...

Quoted message said:

who is Eddy Hinault??

Sory I meant to say Eddy Merckx and Bernard Hinault

Quoted message said:

"Heinz Getzler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Schulenburg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

> Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time.

The excuse that "racing has changed" is used quite often when comparing Eddy to Armstrong. I
agree that racing has gotten considerably harder and there is a need to pick and choose races.
But a more important question to ask is it good for the sport of cycling.................???

Just out of curiosity,

Quoted message said:

When was the last time someone won a classic and the TdF in the same

year?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can see Lance's point about not racing for second. Why risk injury

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

nothing on the line? Most of the riders he was contending with were

fighting

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for worldcup points, sponsor recognition, contracts for next year, etc. Lance is not worried
about any of that. The win means something, nothing else matters.

Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have

had a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

better chance if they worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.

-T

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Has any single rider humiliated more of his contemporaries with

on-the-bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

displays of superiority than Eddy Merckx? He is The King in that regard

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there is no close second.

And the problem with that is? I'd compare Eddy to Ali. Talk the talk,

then do

Quoted message said:

it, or in Eddy's case do it then talk. Lance is great, but Eddy was just on a different level. I
don't expect

to see

Quoted message said:

another Ali, or Eddy anytime soon if ever. Bill C

Well you better stay tuned then and check out Tom Danielson.

The next super star!

"jerry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Schulenburg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"tispectrum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
someone won a classic and the TdF in the same

year?

Quoted message said:

SNIP

When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent
history (heck the last decade or more)

<Snip>

That would be fine if we were just talking about the last 10 years, but as far as I can tell, it's
been more than 20. As much as the Tour riders are becoming "specialists", so are the Classic riders.
I don't think we'll ever see another rider like Merckx. It will take a great rider to win the TdF
and a Classic in the same year, but until that happens again there will be a lot of very good /
great riders who fail to do that..

-T

jerry said:

When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent
history (heck the last decade or more) the TDF has been dominated by two people who were
particularly single minded. I don't think the rest of the podium/top tenners can be called one
race a year riders.

That's the trouble with the Tour, its importance so far overshadows the rest of the schedule that if
you are dominant there then no one remembers anything else. Both Indurain and Armstrong have
achieved results outside of the Tour to be considered great riders. But the consecutive Tour wins
pushes everything else into the background. Look it up. Both had great careers outside of the Tour.
But when you are the main story in the most important race for several years, even a great career in
other races fades into the background.

The 93 WC road race is a great example. How many of us would have looked at that group sprinting for
second and picked Indurain over Museeuw, Ludwig, Fondriest, etc. Yet he took it and were it not for
LANCE off the front he would have scored the Giro-Tour-WC triple that year. And he is remembered as
a rider that concentrated only on the Tour. Even though he and Rominger are the last riders to take
both the Giro and Tour seriously.

Three consecutive podium races in the Giro. Anyone remember that?

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

"Tom Schulenburg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent
history (heck the last decade or more)

<Snip>

That would be fine if we were just talking about the last 10 years, but as far as I can tell, it's
been more than 20. As much as the Tour riders are becoming "specialists", so are the Classic
riders. I don't think we'll

ever

Quoted message said:

see another rider like Merckx. It will take a great rider to win the TdF

and

Quoted message said:

a Classic in the same year, but until that happens again there will be a

lot

Quoted message said:

of very good / great riders who fail to do that..

I think it is a phase. We've gone through nutritional fads and training fads, all which have fallen
by the wayside due to the 'current' scientific approach. I think it will eventually be realized that
you can train to be competitive in both the classics and the TdF. Lance's recognition as being one
of the favorites for AG and LBL bears that out, but I think you can plan to be competitive in both,
not just use the classics as a measuring stick of fitness.

[Pursuiter mode on] For years, it was accepted that you had to specialize in the pursuit: you had to
have the proper base, buildup, and speedwork, and more recently, phases of altitude training. Riders
like Boardman, Rominger (hour record at damn fast speed), Francis Moreau, and Brad McGee have shown
that this isn't necessarily so. Regarding training and racing, pursuiters were treated like
thorobred horses; carefully scheduled training, limited racing as to not interfere with the
specialized buildup to a peak, etc. In the past 10 years, the above mentioned riders came almost
directly from the TdF (except Rominger who had to learn to ride a bike) and thrashed the record
books and competition. [Pursuiter mode off]

IMO, the only thing keeping Lance and the like from having more focus on the classics (as
mentioned already) is the notoriety and monetary rewards associated with the most recognized bike
race in the world.