Is Upgrading Wheelset Worth It?

Prometheus7 wrote:
|| I'm looking for one last thought as to whether I've missed something.
||
|| Thanks.

Are you a racer?

Prometheus7 said:

Two years ago I bought a Felt F50R, ~$1500. So, since then I come
into a little money and think about buying a better bike after I got the
fever. The LBS said my bike is good ( I agree ), but if I wanted to spend
some money that would really make a difference to put it in a new set of
wheels and save on buying another bike.

What do you expect these wheels to do that your current wheels won't? Maybe
you could borrow a set and see for yourself.

If your current wheels have been reliable, I'd stay with them.

Quoted message said:

He said that he knew it sounded like Bull@*!&, but that the better wheels
would be faster.

How much faster? What is it about these wheels that makes them faster? What
is your typical riding speed? The faster you ride, the more improvement
you'll notice with better aerodynamics. At 30 mph the difference will be
much greater than at 18-19 mph (assuming these wheels really are more
aerodynamic).

Quoted message said:

I find it interesting the
www.roadbikereview.com has a lot of opinions about different wheelsets.

Quoted message said:

Every review seems to state that there is noticeable difference.

Placebo effect. When people spend big $$$ on sexy looking wheels, they
expect to be faster. And those that don't notice a difference are less
likely to post a review.

Art Harris

david-<< The LBS said my bike is good ( I agree ), but if I wanted to spend
some money that would really make a difference to put it in a new set of
wheels and save on buying another bike. >><BR><BR>

'Really make a difference'...hogwash.

<< My bike came with moderately priced
aero wheels; he suggested $700 Bontrager X lites. >><BR><BR>

Guess they can't build wheels then. A handmade set that ala the 'Bonnies' are
$200 less. BUT. try lighter tires/tubes first, see if that makes any kind of
difference first. Way too much emphasis on equipment(from a LBS, what a
surprise!! Making promises it can't keep).

What don't your wheels do that you want to change? What problem are you trying
to solve? What question are you trying to answer?

Just get faster? Try what Eddy Merckx said, 'ride lots'.

No such thing as a free lunch.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Prometheus7 said:

This is not to start a flame war. I've read previous posts and have just
about formed an opinion not to upgrade my bicycle wheels based on what I've
read. Two years ago I bought a Felt F50R, ~$1500. So, since then I come
into a little money and think about buying a better bike after I got the
fever. The LBS said my bike is good ( I agree ), but if I wanted to spend
some money that would really make a difference to put it in a new set of
wheels and save on buying another bike. My bike came with moderately priced
aero wheels; he suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

He said that he knew it sounded like Bull@*!&, but that the better wheels
would be faster. After reading previous posts it seems that the majority
thinks that the high priced wheels are out there to get your money, not
provide noticeable difference in the ride. I find it interesting the
www.roadbikereview.com has a lot of opinions about different wheelsets. If
I just took what is posted there, I would be inclined to believe the LBS guy
and buy new wheels. Every review seems to state that there is noticeable
difference. But, if I stick with this newsgroup, I'm thinking it is a waste
of money.

I'm looking for one last thought as to whether I've missed something.

Thanks.

Wheels can make a difference, but so can a more aero bicycle, and even more so an aero postition of the rider.
If you want the largest improvement, start with the largest aerodynamic drag = you the rider. You can spend money on getting evaluation of your fit, position, and power output. These will all help more in Time Trials and Triatholons.
If you have the money, or can justify it by what you earn as a racer, it would also make sense to get the most aero wheels you can for the type of riding you do. However, durability and serviceability should be considered in the decision. Handling in cross winds is also a consideration.

Prometheus7 said:

This is not to start a flame war. I've read previous posts and have just
about formed an opinion not to upgrade my bicycle wheels based on what I've
read. Two years ago I bought a Felt F50R, ~$1500. So, since then I come
into a little money and think about buying a better bike after I got the
fever. The LBS said my bike is good ( I agree ), but if I wanted to spend
some money that would really make a difference to put it in a new set of
wheels and save on buying another bike. My bike came with moderately priced
aero wheels; he suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

He said that he knew it sounded like Bull@*!&, but that the better wheels
would be faster. After reading previous posts it seems that the majority
thinks that the high priced wheels are out there to get your money, not
provide noticeable difference in the ride. I find it interesting the
www.roadbikereview.com has a lot of opinions about different wheelsets. If
I just took what is posted there, I would be inclined to believe the LBS guy
and buy new wheels. Every review seems to state that there is noticeable
difference. But, if I stick with this newsgroup, I'm thinking it is a waste
of money.

I'm looking for one last thought as to whether I've missed something.

Thanks.

Hi, I recently had a set of wheels handbuilt by Peter at Vecchio's.
Honestly, I didn't need new wheels, the Matrix Auroras with a generic
front and Tiagra rear hub were/are in fine shape. I did it as part of
an almost total upgrade of my bike. I wanted everything to be the best
that I could afford. I wanted the bike to be a one of a kind, personal
statement. I also wanted the insurance of a durable, well built set of
wheels.

I also don't think that it is a bad idea to have a spare set of
wheels. I'll never miss a day of riding, for lack of a wheel.

One of my goals was to make my bike as light as possible, so I went
with Velocity Aerohead rims and Dura-Ace hubs.
The bike is a '02 LeMond Tourmalet that was 23 lbs, when weighed with
me and the bathroom scale. After all my upgrades, I got it down to
20lbs. I could knock some more weight off, if I swapped out the SI
Prolink saddle for a much lighter one. Nah, I'd rather be comfortable.
It's still heavy by weight weinee standards, but I noticed the
difference and like it.

I guess what I'm saying, is that if a new set of wheels will make you
happy and inspire you to ride more, do it. But rather than buy the
Bontragers, have a pro wheelbuilder build a set to your
specifications. Consider Chris King hubs and Velocity Deep V or Fusion
rims.
A couple of other things you could do is replace your seatpost and
handlebars with some really nice carbon fiber models. Then finish the
bars off with the gel pads from a Specialized Bar Phat kit and if
other than black, the tape of your choice. [Bar Phat only comes with
black tape.]

It will be as good as a new bike, for hundreds, maybe thousands less.
I've learned from the regulars here, that the engine makes the most
difference and that equipment upgrades are of minimal value. That
said, I see nothing wrong in having the best, coolest, baddest bike
that you can afford. I like nice cars, I can't afford them. I've said
it before, my bike just screams "RIDE ME", whenever I look at it. That
makes it all worthwhile to me.

Life is Good!
Jeff

No.

When I watch stronger riders sprint up the hills and ride off into the
sunset, it's not because my wheels have 32 spokes, or my tires have wire
beads, or my steel frame/fork weigh a pound or two more, or.....

Mike Lackey
Madison, AL

"Prometheus7" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is not to start a flame war. I've read previous posts and have just
about formed an opinion not to upgrade my bicycle wheels based on what

I've

Quoted message said:

read. Two years ago I bought a Felt F50R, ~$1500. So, since then I come
into a little money and think about buying a better bike after I got the
fever. The LBS said my bike is good ( I agree ), but if I wanted to spend
some money that would really make a difference to put it in a new set of
wheels and save on buying another bike. My bike came with moderately

priced

Quoted message said:

aero wheels; he suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

He said that he knew it sounded like Bull@*!&, but that the better wheels
would be faster. After reading previous posts it seems that the majority
thinks that the high priced wheels are out there to get your money, not
provide noticeable difference in the ride. I find it interesting the
www.roadbikereview.com has a lot of opinions about different wheelsets.

If

Quoted message said:

I just took what is posted there, I would be inclined to believe the LBS

guy

Quoted message said:

and buy new wheels. Every review seems to state that there is noticeable
difference. But, if I stick with this newsgroup, I'm thinking it is a

waste

Quoted message said:

of money.

I'm looking for one last thought as to whether I've missed something.

Thanks.

It's not BS. Wheels can make a major difference in the way a bike rides!

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Quoted message said:

From: Jeff Starr

Quoted message said:

I also don't think that it is a bad idea to have a spare set of
wheels. I'll never miss a day of riding, for lack of a wheel.

If you discover an "overnight" flat when it's time to leave to meet a ride, or
crunch a rim without enough time to have it replaced (or do it yourself),
that's when a 100% serviceable spare set of wheels earns its keep (matching
brake surfaces for freedom from brake pad adjustments and safety).

Having a spare wheel also makes the flat repair much more convenient and
reduces the "unseen second bit of glass or wire" repeat flats; also tube
pinches from hurried changes. One of the best investments out there, one I've
personally taken advantage of many times over the years. --TP

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 10:59:04 -0500, Jeff Starr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I also don't think that it is a bad idea to have a spare set of
wheels. I'll never miss a day of riding, for lack of a wheel.

No, not just spare wheels, a spare bicycle.

Prometheus7 said:

I'm looking for one last thought as to whether I've missed something.

The differences in wheelsets that are "better" than the ones on your
bike are often situational. Some may be worse for a given purpose
than what you have now. When choosing wheels, it's important to look
at more than just performance (as in "supports ability to go fast"😉
factors Lower spoke counts can result in lower reliability and the
possibility of being forced to carry the bike home if a spoke breaks.
Wheels that are well built but reasonably generic tend to be the least
troublesome over the long haul. "Exotic" is not necessarily "better"
for the daily rider; the small incremental differences in weight and
aero can be overwhelmed by the annoyance levels that can arise when
something goes wrong.

It all boils down to a matter of balance; if the potential drawbacks
of a given component are unimportant by comparison to the potential
gains, then go for it. When reading reviews, though, remember this:
When reviews are written for publication, the writers are almost
always going to highlight the supposed advantages of a product and
seldom will mention the drawbacks. The purpose of such reviews is to
*promote*. Few trade and specialty publications either extensively
test a product or seek out third-party opinions and experiences before
writing a review, and they may very well miss a fault that only shows
up with time or circumstances. (Typically, though, they also won't
hide one that they manage to find...but that doesn't happen often
enough.) Take all laudatory reviews with a grain of salt; treat them
as having been written at least in part by the product's manufacturer
since nearly any product delivered for review is going to be
accompanied or preceded by the maker's propaganda, er, I should have
said "information packet and advertising material."

All that aside, if you can afford to build a spare set of really nifty
wheels and swap them in and out as circumstances would demand, I don't
see any really stunning reason not to have them.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Lighter wheels will help if you ride a lot of hills and more aero if you ride
fast in the flats. Pretty basic.

Paul Kopit said:

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 10:59:04 -0500, Jeff Starr <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I also don't think that it is a bad idea to have a spare set of
wheels. I'll never miss a day of riding, for lack of a wheel.

No, not just spare wheels, a spare bicycle.

Hi, I have one those too. But it has 27" wheels, as opposed to the two
pair of 700. Actually, I have a 2nd set of 27", but they are 28 year
old steel rims [Samir Saminox w/Normandy hubs]. So, yes, 2 bikes, each
with 2 wheelsets,I think I have it covered. For now, anyway;-)

Life is Good!
Jeff

I bought a new wheelset when I found out they would be about 1 1/2 pounds
lighter than the stock wheelset that came with my Bianchi Veloce. Not only
were the new wheels stiffer and lighter, but I noticed an incredible jump in
acceleration that I did not have previous to this change. Also, two hills
that I had to climb in my third chainring were suddenly climbable in the
second chain ring. If this is all my imagination, I like it!

Pat in TX

Your 2 year old $1500 Felt bike probably has Ultegra components. And
you have come into some money and want to spend it on your bike. In
my opinion the best things, bang for buck, to spend the money on are:

1. Another bike. Nothing is as noticeable by you or your riding
friends like a new bike.
2. Wheels. Zipp 404 deep dish style or those 3 spoke HED/Specialized
style wheels. Very noticeable. Can't miss them.
3. Crankset. Very noticeable too. At least to me. Those black
carbon cranks really stand out if you are currently using a silver
aluminum crank.
4. Bar/stem. Get the carbon ones and you will notice it every time
you ride because you will be looking at it the whole time and more
than likely others will notice too. Particularly if you tell them
frequently.

Note I did not mention performance or weight. Weight really does not
matter unless you are comparing Schwinn Varsity to Trek Madone bikes.
And performance is due to the rider not the bike. Within reason of
course.

Just buy the new component/bike that makes you happiest. For whatever
reason. And that you can afford of course. Rationalize it anyway you
want after you have purchased it. The color is your favorite. The
weight is light. The look is cool. The price is right. The brand is
good. Etc.

"Prometheus7" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This is not to start a flame war. I've read previous posts and have just
about formed an opinion not to upgrade my bicycle wheels based on what I've
read. Two years ago I bought a Felt F50R, ~$1500. So, since then I come
into a little money and think about buying a better bike after I got the
fever. The LBS said my bike is good ( I agree ), but if I wanted to spend
some money that would really make a difference to put it in a new set of
wheels and save on buying another bike. My bike came with moderately priced
aero wheels; he suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

He said that he knew it sounded like Bull@*!&, but that the better wheels
would be faster. After reading previous posts it seems that the majority
thinks that the high priced wheels are out there to get your money, not
provide noticeable difference in the ride. I find it interesting the
www.roadbikereview.com has a lot of opinions about different wheelsets. If
I just took what is posted there, I would be inclined to believe the LBS guy
and buy new wheels. Every review seems to state that there is noticeable
difference. But, if I stick with this newsgroup, I'm thinking it is a waste
of money.

I'm looking for one last thought as to whether I've missed something.

Thanks.

Prometheus7 said:

... if I wanted to spend some money that would really make a
difference to put it in a new set of wheels and save on buying
another bike. My bike came with moderately priced aero wheels; he
suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

1 lbs off of your wheels is worth 2 lbs off the frameset.

I don't think that Bontrager Race X-lites are all that special. They
weigh 1610 grams. You can get the same thing in a campagnolo record
hub that weighs 789 grams front, 925 grams rear, with a very
conservative 32 hole hub and mavic open pro rims, including skewers.

http://www.branfordbike.com/wheels/wheel19.html

======

If you are willing to spend another 70, you can buy off-the-shelf
wheels for $299.95 (campagnolo record hubs) from Performance Bike with
exactly the same specs.

They won't look so "hot" but they should work just great, and cost FAR
FAR less over their lifetime than (and be more versatile than) the
Bontragers.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Prometheus7 said:

... if I wanted to spend some money that would really make a
difference to put it in a new set of wheels and save on buying
another bike. My bike came with moderately priced aero wheels; he
suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

1 lbs off of your wheels is worth 2 lbs off the frameset.

I don't think that Bontrager Race X-lites are all that special. They
weigh 1710 grams. You can get the same thing in a campagnolo record
hub that weighs 789 grams front, 925 grams rear (1714 grams total),
with a very conservative 32 hole hub and mavic open pro rims,
including skewers.

http://www.branfordbike.com/wheels/wheel19.html

======

If you are willing to waste another 70 grams, you can buy
off-the-shelf wheels for $299.95 (campagnolo record hubs) from
Performance Bike with the same specs.

They won't look so "hot" but they should work just great, and cost FAR
FAR less over their lifetime than (and be more versatile and
repairable in a tight situation than) the Bontragers.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Donald Gillies said:

Prometheus7 said:

... if I wanted to spend some money that would really make a
difference to put it in a new set of wheels and save on buying
another bike. My bike came with moderately priced aero wheels; he
suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

1 lbs off of your wheels is worth 2 lbs off the frameset.

I don't think that Bontrager Race X-lites are all that special. They
weigh 1710 grams. You can get the same thing in a campagnolo record
hub that weighs 789 grams front, 925 grams rear (1714 grams total),
with a very conservative 32 hole hub and mavic open pro rims,
including skewers.

http://www.branfordbike.com/wheels/wheel19.html

======

If you are willing to waste another 70 grams, you can buy
off-the-shelf wheels for $299.95 (campagnolo record hubs) from
Performance Bike with the same specs.

They won't look so "hot" but they should work just great, and cost FAR
FAR less over their lifetime than (and be more versatile and
repairable in a tight situation than) the Bontragers.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

This is damned priceless huh. Here we all are writing tens (maybe over a
hundred) lines about different ways of solving a problem that has not
yet been explicitly stated by the OP.

We don't know if he or she wants speed on the flats, climbing
efficiency, acceleration, good looks, or all the above at the same
time(!) Peter C (amongst others) has pointed this out already.

But I love guessing games. My vote: Go with Don's Campag Record / Mavic
OP. Absolutely. It's classy, light, fast, durable, and generic at the
same time. As far as "cool factor" goes, you can:

* use flattened spokes (DT Aero Speed, for which the hub holes need no
filing pre-installation, so they're "safe"😉.

* use a slightly unusual lacing pattern (to appease the flamers, I refer
the OP to the hundreds of skirmishes negotiated on this newsgroup
concerning radial, x1, x2, Sheldon's POWerwheel lacing system [which is
best of course])

* use Jobst's, Sheldon's or other gurus' material to guide you

* use light tyres of type Veloflex Corsa or Veloflex Master

* install latex tubes

* source and build the above by yourself so you can impress the girls.

I did all the above *, got great wheels, but only one girl . . .

What's cool with this solution is that a handbuilt wheel, in a world of
boutique trash, is so unique nowadays that it immediately becomes a
topic for discussion (though you may be forced to defend - to your last
drop of blood - whatever lacing pattern or spoke cross-section you've
chosen, but hey that's what cycling's about inn'it.

May the uncertain solutions to undefined problems continue to roll in
(pun intended) <flamesuit> . . .

/Robert

Robert said:

Donald Gillies said:

Prometheus7 said:

... if I wanted to spend some money that would really make a
difference to put it in a new set of wheels and save on buying
another bike. My bike came with moderately priced aero wheels; he
suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

===============

If you are willing to waste another 70 grams, you can buy
off-the-shelf wheels for $299.95 (campagnolo record hubs) from
Performance Bike with the same specs.

Quoted message said:

This is damned priceless huh. Here we all are writing tens (maybe over a
hundred) lines about different ways of solving a problem that has not
yet been explicitly stated by the OP.

Quoted message said:

But I love guessing games. My vote: Go with Don's Campag Record / Mavic
OP. Absolutely. It's classy, light, fast, durable, and generic at the
same time. As far as "cool factor" goes, you can ...

Glad you agree, Robert. Better yet, use generic-looking chorus hubs,
and peel away the "MAVIC Open Pro" labels from the rims. Then take
some steroids and win a few pelotons. When a race is over, and you
are victorious, point down at your wheels and said, "See ??? I did it
with GENERIC wheels !!!"

That might cause a big stir ... You might get your bontrager's for
free that way !!!

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

[email hidden] (Donald Gillies) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Prometheus7 said:

... if I wanted to spend some money that would really make a
difference to put it in a new set of wheels and save on buying
another bike. My bike came with moderately priced aero wheels; he
suggested $700 Bontrager X lites.

Wheels are major.
I have a winter set and a summer set and when I switch wheels in the
spring my position in the local club ride improves "overnight".

YMMV