Help -- information overload!

drmac618 said:

I have been reading trying to develop a plan to help me improve my racing. Specifically maintaining a "top" speed longer.

In a recent (crit) race I was able to hang with the lead group for about 3 miles (~28 mph) -- my heartrate started to increase and I ended up getting dropped.

During the race my legs did not burn or feel dead -- I just "ran out of gas".

Now, knowing that is my weakness I started to look for training plans.

I found information on cario workouts, cross training, leg speed, weight lifting, etc. etc. etc. It seems like everyone has a different thought.

So, what is the best plan? What should I work on and how often?

thanks!

getting a coach, will bring the best returns.

ric

ricstern said:

getting a coach, will bring the best returns.

ric

Yes - if the coach happens to know what they're talking about! It doesn't hurt to try to read widely and critically too.

But definitely, get a coach. Good advice.

Roadie_scum said:

Yes - if the coach happens to know what they're talking about! It doesn't hurt to try to read widely and critically too.

But definitely, get a coach. Good advice.

hopefully, i know what i'm talking about ;-)!

drmac618 said:

I have been reading trying to develop a plan to help me improve my racing. Specifically maintaining a "top" speed longer.

In a recent (crit) race I was able to hang with the lead group for about 3 miles (~28 mph) -- my heartrate started to increase and I ended up getting dropped.

During the race my legs did not burn or feel dead -- I just "ran out of gas".

Now, knowing that is my weakness I started to look for training plans.

I found information on cario workouts, cross training, leg speed, weight lifting, etc. etc. etc. It seems like everyone has a different thought.

So, what is the best plan? What should I work on and how often?

thanks!

In answer to your query: "cardio workouts" (i'm assuming you don't mean cycling), cross training, leg speed, and weights, won't help your crit or bike racing ability. what you need to do is concentrate on improving your LT, and VO2max (MAP) while on the bike. These are improved with a variety of training sessions ranging from several plus hours to intervals of several minutes.

most likely your weakness at crit racing (or bike racing in general) won't be because of short-term explosive power (e.g., <30-secs bursts, such as accelerating hard out of corners), but related more to VO2max, and LT.

If you just ran out of gas (out of energy?), that sounds like you were glycogen depleted.

the specific workouts and how they'd fit together along with goals, and other aspects are best dealt with by a coach. please contact me for coaching if you wish,

ric

ricstern said:

hopefully, i know what i'm talking about ;-)!

Certainly from what I've seen! 🙂

ricstern

since you're a coach and I'm new to cycling maybe you can answer a few of my questions. First of all, can you tell me some of your abbreviations such as LT and VO2max -I don't know what those are. 😕

Second, for a newbie like me can you just give me a good riding pattern I should do? Any other workouts I should be doing for legs?

Also, I've read things for weight training and they say to let your muscles rest every other day. Does this apply to cycling too? Meaning I can't ride everyday?? Also sometimes when I ride during the morning I get tired and come in for a while. Then in the evening when it cools off again I want to go back out. Is this smart? -or am I just damaging repairing muscle tissue, just delaying it from recovery?

Sorry, just really new to everything 😄

JTEK said:

ricstern

since you're a coach and I'm new to cycling maybe you can answer a few of my questions. First of all, can you tell me some of your abbreviations such as LT and VO2max -I don't know what those are. 😕

LT = lactate threshold. Lactate (from lactic acid) is 'waste' product produced by the body in proportion to the intensity of exercise (harder you exercise, the more is produced) and gives the 'burning' feeling you may have experienced when exercising hard. LT is the workload that elicits a certain amount of lactate accumulation, usually defined within the scientific literature as the workload that elicits a 1 mmol/L increase in lactate over exercise baseline level (~2.x mmol/L) or at a fixed value of 2.5 mmol/L. This is a fairly low intensity for a trained cyclist (they maybe to ride at this effort for up to 3+ hrs).

VO2max is the maximal volume of oxygen that can be taken in and extracted by the muscles. during endurance exercise (anything that lasts > ~90-secs) the volume of O2 extracted and used sets the upper limit for maximal work. This is around 5+ L/min for trained and elite athletes and maybe around 3 L/min for sedentary subjects (approx male values). Often the absolute values (e.g., 4.2 L/min) are divided by the subjects body mass, to 'equalise' the readings across different sized athletes. Thus, elite endurance athletes are usually > 70 mL/kg/min, while sedentary people maybe ~ 40 mL/kg/min.

Maybe 10 to 15% less for female comparisons.

additionally, i also use the term MAP - maximal aerobic power. This is the power output associated with the end of an incremental test to exhaustion that is used to determine VO2max. Often,i may use the terms VO2max and MAP synonymously.

Quoted post said:

Second, for a newbie like me can you just give me a good riding pattern I should do? Any other workouts I should be doing for legs?

depends on many factors, e.g., time available, fitness, goals, etc.

Quoted post said:

Also, I've read things for weight training and they say to let your muscles rest every other day. Does this apply to cycling too? Meaning I can't ride everyday?? Also sometimes when I ride during the morning I get tired and come in for a while. Then in the evening when it cools off again I want to go back out. Is this smart? -or am I just damaging repairing muscle tissue, just delaying it from recovery?

Sorry, just really new to everything 😄

you shouldn't ride every day continually, and likewise you may be wasting your time if you rest every other day.

ric

ricstern said:

depends on many factors, e.g., time available, fitness, goals, etc.

you shouldn't ride every day continually, and likewise you may be wasting your time if you rest every other day.

ric

Well, right now I basically have all day/everyday to do anything since school is out right now. Fitness? As in my body shape right now? Well, I'm quite skinny (130lbs and about 6' tall) and seem to be able to get into shape rather quickly, even though I've been lazy for a while.. I'm 17

Can you explain that last part again? Not ride continually everyday, but be wasting my time if I rest? Could you reword it or elaborate?

Thanks for the replys

JTEK said:

Well, right now I basically have all day/everyday to do anything since school is out right now. Fitness? As in my body shape right now? Well, I'm quite skinny (130lbs and about 6' tall) and seem to be able to get into shape rather quickly, even though I've been lazy for a while.. I'm 17

Can you explain that last part again? Not ride continually everyday, but be wasting my time if I rest? Could you reword it or elaborate?

Thanks for the replys

yes, looking back it's not terribly well worded...

if you train/rest on consecutive days, it's unlikely you'll get the adaptations you need, i.e., you'll be under training

on the other hand if you train every day, after a period of time (10 days, 20 d, 30 d, ?) you'll be completely exhausted and you won't really be training, you'll just be riding your bike very slowly!

thus, within a training programme, you'll need at some points to train every day, and at other points to have a rest day. where those points come is beyond the scope of the forum, and for many people are dictated by fatigue/training, but e.g., days of the week (i.e., you may have to work late every monday, and every friday you go for a beer with friends) and thus have those days off.

hope that makes more sense
ric

ricstern said:

yes, looking back it's not terribly well worded...

if you train/rest on consecutive days, it's unlikely you'll get the adaptations you need, i.e., you'll be under training

on the other hand if you train every day, after a period of time (10 days, 20 d, 30 d, ?) you'll be completely exhausted and you won't really be training, you'll just be riding your bike very slowly!

thus, within a training programme, you'll need at some points to train every day, and at other points to have a rest day. where those points come is beyond the scope of the forum, and for many people are dictated by fatigue/training, but e.g., days of the week (i.e., you may have to work late every monday, and every friday you go for a beer with friends) and thus have those days off.

hope that makes more sense
ric

Yes, thank you. That makes more sense.