When is it OVERtraining?

Pepesa said:

that's pretty much the question - how can you tell if you're overdoing it? by feel? by performance? comment? I just love being in the saddle (and commute aswell) so don't count my hours or my kms (though i'm sure i'm well over 12/13h avg) - i just (try to!) push myself hard when I feel that's what I should be doing and take it easier when my body/ legs ask me to . . . i hadn't even thought about over-training. any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated!

ppsa

Answer these questions.....

do you feel depressed?
appetite diminished?
does cycling seem a chore?
don't look forward to training?
finding excuses for not riding/poor performances?
irritable?
you train, but the form just doesn't seem to come?

if there are lots of "yes" answers, you may well be overtraining.
Remember, you can ride 1000km a week and not overtrain, it's a mind thing.

ed073 said:

Answer these questions.....

do you feel depressed?
appetite diminished?
does cycling seem a chore?
don't look forward to training?
finding excuses for not riding/poor performances?
irritable?
you train, but the form just doesn't seem to come?

if there are lots of "yes" answers, you may well be overtraining.
Remember, you can ride 1000km a week and not overtrain, it's a mind thing.

Excellent points on psychological symptoms. Physical symptoms include most of the preceeding but also an elevated heartrate, mild fever, depressed immune system, persistent cough and sore throat are good indicators you should rest a few days.

I have fallen victim to overtraining and I can tell you, the racing heart in the morning (mine was 90 BPM) had me worried. I had a friend in the Armywho suffered non-aerobic tachycardia and the medicines used to stabilize his HR ruined him. He became chairborne vet from Airborne Rangers in a few short weeks.

Weisse Luft said:

Excellent points on psychological symptoms. Physical symptoms include most of the preceeding but also an elevated heartrate, mild fever, depressed immune system, persistent cough and sore throat are good indicators you should rest a few days.

I have fallen victim to overtraining and I can tell you, the racing heart in the morning (mine was 90 BPM) had me worried. I had a friend in the Armywho suffered non-aerobic tachycardia and the medicines used to stabilize his HR ruined him. He became chairborne vet from Airborne Rangers in a few short weeks.

ed, weisse,

thanks for clarifying - i can't imagine biking being a chore! . . . maybe i'm not pushing myself hard enough! I've never been big on keeping track of HR, is it really that essential?

and finally, a question so naive i don't want to ask, no matter - when you're out riding how can you be sure you're training? Does all time on the bike count? Or only when you feel you're pushing yourself? Does it have to be maintained for a minimum time to have positive effect or help improve? And can you simply push yourself too hard, or can you always recover from a ride if you know the way to do it?

I'm dying to improve as fast I can, it's my first season, I have nothing but free time and can spend hours on the bike everyday. But i still want to use my time wisely.

thanks again -sorry for the bombardment of questions!!

Pepesa said:

ed, weisse,

thanks for clarifying - i can't imagine biking being a chore! . . . maybe i'm not pushing myself hard enough! I've never been big on keeping track of HR, is it really that essential?

and finally, a question so naive i don't want to ask, no matter - when you're out riding how can you be sure you're training? Does all time on the bike count? Or only when you feel you're pushing yourself? Does it have to be maintained for a minimum time to have positive effect or help improve? And can you simply push yourself too hard, or can you always recover from a ride if you know the way to do it?

I'm dying to improve as fast I can, it's my first season, I have nothing but free time and can spend hours on the bike everyday. But i still want to use my time wisely.

thanks again -sorry for the bombardment of questions!!

no worries. Take your HR at least every morning when you wake up....you can track any changes that way. An elevated HR first thing in the morning is a sign you could be sick/tired etc.

do a google search for training programs for cyclists...there are a billion out there.

Simply put, cycling is all about consistency. Get out as often as you can and ensure you are doing some long 3-4-5 hour rides to build a decent level of endurance. You can mix this up with interval work, strength work, races, etc etc. Get out and ride...that's the most important part!! 🙂

ed073 said:

Answer these questions.....

do you feel depressed?
appetite diminished?
does cycling seem a chore?
don't look forward to training?
finding excuses for not riding/poor performances?
irritable?
you train, but the form just doesn't seem to come?

if there are lots of "yes" answers, you may well be overtraining.
Remember, you can ride 1000km a week and not overtrain, it's a mind thing.

Overtraining is a body thing as well as a mind thing. Certainly, the symptoms are similar to depression, but that doesn't mean they're the same. I'd be hard pressed to think of a single athlete I know who wouldn't be overtraining at 1000km a week, and I know some damn good athletes.

Roadie_scum said:

Overtraining is a body thing as well as a mind thing. Certainly, the symptoms are similar to depression, but that doesn't mean they're the same. I'd be hard pressed to think of a single athlete I know who wouldn't be overtraining at 1000km a week, and I know some damn good athletes.

you MAY well be overtraining. Plus you'll see I didn't limit it to just "are you feeling depressed?" Hell....he may have just broken up with his girlfriend, who knows??

I've had plenty of 800-1000km weeks over the years and had the best form of my life...I've also felt [censored] and training was the last thing on my mind when at 500km a week. Overtraining isn't solely about volume.

ed073 said:

you MAY well be overtraining. Plus you'll see I didn't limit it to just "are you feeling depressed?" Hell....he may have just broken up with his girlfriend, who knows??

Yes, but my point is that overtraining is not just 'in the mind'. It may, for example, be associated with elevated cortisol levels, although physical markers are pretty ambiguous and require further study.

You said: "Remember, you can ride 1000km a week and not overtrain, it's a mind thing."

That is what I am disagreeing with. Most people couldn't ride 1000km/w and not overtrain. Including a lot of elite level athletes. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with their mind.

Quoted post said:

I've had plenty of 800-1000km weeks over the years and had the best form of my life...I've also felt [censored] and training was the last thing on my mind when at 500km a week. Overtraining isn't solely about volume.

I never said it was just about volume. I'm not sure how feeling [censored] at some point on 500km/w versus feeling good on 1000km/w relates to overtraining.

I'm also not sure why you'd want to ride 800-1000km a week, except that you want to do it (that is, it would be very rare to get a benefit out of this volume that couldn't be elicited from a smaller volume). If you want to do it and you don't get sick, good on you, I guess.

Roadie_scum said:

Yes, but my point is that overtraining is not just 'in the mind'. It may, for example, be associated with elevated cortisol levels, although physical markers are pretty ambiguous and require further study.

You said: "Remember, you can ride 1000km a week and not overtrain, it's a mind thing."

That is what I am disagreeing with. Most people couldn't ride 1000km/w and not overtrain. Including a lot of elite level athletes. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with their mind.

I never said it was just about volume. I'm not sure how feeling [censored] at some point on 500km/w versus feeling good on 1000km/w relates to overtraining.

I'm also not sure why you'd want to ride 800-1000km a week, except that you want to do it (that is, it would be very rare to get a benefit out of this volume that couldn't be elicited from a smaller volume). If you want to do it and you don't get sick, good on you, I guess.

Cool....now I understand your point. BTW, what kind of km count do you do? Are you at the elite level?

ed073 said:

Cool....now I understand your point. BTW, what kind of km count do you do? Are you at the elite level?

I suppose it depends on your definition of elite really doesn't it! I wouldn't say I'm elite at the moment, but hopefully I'll get there one day... I ride club A grade and I've had some decent results in opens, but it's difficult to train, attend university and live life without getting sick - I'm still learning to strike a balance. I haven't finished at the front of a national series race yet - that's my definition of elite. During uni I probably ride between 420km and 600km a week, and about 500-700km/w on Holidays. It depends on the time of year and what racing I have coming up. I'm currently recovering from a nasty virus that I've had for 2-3 months so I've been tapping out about 100-300km depending on how I feel. And yes, it's not that great...

Roadie_scum said:

I suppose it depends on your definition of elite really doesn't it! I wouldn't say I'm elite at the moment, but hopefully I'll get there one day... I ride club A grade and I've had some decent results in opens, but it's difficult to train, attend university and live life without getting sick - I'm still learning to strike a balance. I haven't finished at the front of a national series race yet - that's my definition of elite. During uni I probably ride between 420km and 600km a week, and about 500-700km/w on Holidays. It depends on the time of year and what racing I have coming up. I'm currently recovering from a nasty virus that I've had for 2-3 months so I've been tapping out about 100-300km depending on how I feel. And yes, it's not that great...

At least you're attending lectures!!! When I was at Uni, a half decent day weather-wise and I was out of there.....🙂