old suntour vs. new low level shimano

Which SunTour group is it? If it's Superbe, that stuff is terrible. You should replace with ShimaNO and send the SunTour stuff to me 😉

Seriously though, SunTour indexing is good stuff. I've got GPX 7-speed stuff on one of my bikes and I like it a lot.

"big Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all

I have a 86 bianchi strada lx 62 cm steel lugged frame. I really like
this bike. Would it be worth while to upgrade the components on it. It
has the original suntour group on it. This group has the friction index
shifters if that helps. How would I go about upgrading this. I was
thinking low level shimano would fit my budget. My main assumption here
is that new low level technology is better than old mid to high
technology because of technology creep (ie. the tech in the high end
get passed down to the low end as the high end gets better). Also any
info on the suntour group that I have on it now (original components)
would be helpful. What is the advantage of the old over the new? What
is the advantage of the new over the old?

Thank you very much

Pete

--
big Pete

All ya really need is a pair of freehub wheels (with appropriate cassette),
STI/Ergo levers, compatible rear derailleur, and a new chain. The rest of the
bike you can pretty well leave alone if you wanna.

OR, if you wanna keep things more original, a pair of Sachs Ergos, compatible
derailleur, 7sp FW and chain. You may have to re-dish the rear wheel slightly,
but it shouldn't be too bad. If the shifting's not perfect, you can take the FW
apart and shave down some of the spacers to make them work better.

I dig the older Suntour stuff. It was very nicely made. Especially the Superbe
Pro. Mmmmm....

HTH,

M

Quoted message said:

big Pete said:

I really like this bike.
What is the advantage of the old over the new?
What is the advantage of the new over the old?

What is the advantage of upgrading? I.e., what do you want from the
bike that it doesn't give you now? Is something broken?

big Pete said:

I have a 86 bianchi strada lx 62 cm steel lugged frame. I really like
this bike. Would it be worth while to upgrade the components on it. It
has the original suntour group on it. This group has the friction index
shifters if that helps. How would I go about upgrading this. I was
thinking low level shimano would fit my budget. My main assumption here
is that new low level technology is better than old mid to high
technology because of technology creep (ie. the tech in the high end
get passed down to the low end as the high end gets better). Also any
info on the suntour group that I have on it now (original components)
would be helpful. What is the advantage of the old over the new? What
is the advantage of the new over the old?

Pete,

Three things.....

1) If the bike is set up for 6-speed, one obvious change possible is
going to 8-speed indexed shifting. This is a big change though as it
will require, new rear hub (wheel?), new cassette, new chain and new
shifters. It will also require that you spread the frame a bit to make
it fit. See: http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

2) If you want to keep the bike set up for 6-speed friction shifting,
you might be able to find Superpe (that stuff was awsome), Campy or
Shimano 600 or Ultegra stuff on e-bay lightly used. It is out there.
That would allow you to upgrade just the components.

3) If you are interested in selling off your Suntour stuff, I may be
interested. I'm restoring an old Trek ('82 vintage) and the drive
train components are pretty rusted up.

'best,

-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

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In article <[email hidden]>,

big Pete said:

Hi all

I have a 86 bianchi strada lx 62 cm steel lugged frame. I really like
this bike. Would it be worth while to upgrade the components on it. It
has the original suntour group on it. This group has the friction index
shifters if that helps. How would I go about upgrading this. I was
thinking low level shimano would fit my budget. My main assumption here
is that new low level technology is better than old mid to high
technology because of technology creep (ie. the tech in the high end
get passed down to the low end as the high end gets better).

_ Bikes are not computers, the basic technology doesn't change
that fast... Suntour Superbe is very nice stuff
and with a little maintaince and maybe some new rims, that bike
will be as good as it ever was.

What do you want the bike to do that it doesn't do well now?
If the parts you have on it aren't worn, I don't see much
advantage in replacing them.

Quoted message said:

Also any
info on the suntour group that I have on it now (original components)
would be helpful. What is the advantage of the old over the new? What
is the advantage of the new over the old?

_ The big changes since 86 have been in the number of gears
and index shifting. I would check out Sheldon Brown's web
site to learn about some of the issues of new gear, in particular

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

_ Also, if you aren't using clipless pedals I would highly
recommend them.

_ Booker C. Bense

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big Pete said:

I have a 86 bianchi strada lx 62 cm steel lugged frame. I really like
this bike. Would it be worth while to upgrade the components on it. It
has the original suntour group on it. This group has the friction index
shifters if that helps. How would I go about upgrading this. I was
thinking low level shimano would fit my budget. My main assumption here
is that new low level technology is better than old mid to high
technology because of technology creep (ie. the tech in the high end
get passed down to the low end as the high end gets better). Also any
info on the suntour group that I have on it now (original components)
would be helpful. What is the advantage of the old over the new? What
is the advantage of the new over the old?

There's a cool, little known trick if you have Sun Tour 6-speed indexing
stuff:

Install a Shimano rear derailer and a 7-speed freewheel (new chain, too)
and it will all index just fine!

The mismatch between Sun Tour and Shimano cancels out the mismatch
between 6- and 7-speed.

I've done this on quite a few bikes.

Sheldon "Breaking The Rules" Brown
+------------------------------------+
| Immigrants are not our burden, |
| They are our wealth --Jane Adams |
+------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

Seriously though, SunTour indexing is good stuff. I've got GPX 7-speed
stuff on one of my bikes and I like it a lot.

Yeah, but it's much touchier than Shimano. If it's working OK I'd leave it.
Replacing the entire drivetrain-less crnks because you really don't need to
change them-will be very expensive. Cheaper to buy a used bike with the stuff
you want, transfer the parts and off the frame.
Phil Brown

Gonzo Bob <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Which SunTour group is it? If it's Superbe, that stuff is terrible.
You should replace with ShimaNO and send the SunTour stuff to me 😉

Seriously though, SunTour indexing is good stuff. I've got GPX 7-speed
stuff on one of my bikes and I like it a lot.

The cheepest of the new is 100 times better than the best of the old
no question. If you like vintage stuff keep the bianchi as is. But buy
a new bike. Besides if you plan to ride much at all you will be
putting yourself at risk riding old fatigued parts. Bikes are not
ment to last forever & they won't. Not worth the emergancy room visit.

Quoted message said:

The cheepest of the new is 100 times better than the best of the old
no question. If you like vintage stuff keep the bianchi as is. But buy
a new bike. Besides if you plan to ride much at all you will be
putting yourself at risk riding old fatigued parts. Bikes are not
ment to last forever & they won't. Not worth the emergancy room visit.

First, your statement about the cheapest of the new stuff being 100 times
better than the best of the old is just absurd. Campy NR and SR and the last of
the Simplex stuff were some of the finest parts ever produced and work fine
today, in fact did work fine on my ride today. And, barring stems and
handlebars, if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. I've been riding for more
than 40 years and I know of NO broken or fatigued parts except bars and stems
failing and they are a known failure item, at least the aluminium ones. and the
notion of Suntour parts being dangerous isn't even worth dignifing with a
response.
Phil Brown

Quoted message said:

today, in fact did work fine on my ride today. And, barring stems and
handlebars, if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. I've been riding for more
than 40 years and I know of NO broken or fatigued parts except bars and stems
failing and they are a known failure item,

i wonder if theres going to be a rash of carbon fiber fork/frame
fractures in 20 years or so?

[email hidden] (Phil Brown) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The cheepest of the new is 100 times better than the best of the old
no question. If you like vintage stuff keep the bianchi as is. But buy
a new bike. Besides if you plan to ride much at all you will be
putting yourself at risk riding old fatigued parts. Bikes are not
ment to last forever & they won't. Not worth the emergancy room visit.

First, your statement about the cheapest of the new stuff being 100 times
better than the best of the old is just absurd. Campy NR and SR and the last of
the Simplex stuff were some of the finest parts ever produced and work fine
today, in fact did work fine on my ride today. And, barring stems and
handlebars, if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. I've been riding for more
than 40 years and I know of NO broken or fatigued parts except bars and stems
failing and they are a known failure item, at least the aluminium ones. and the
notion of Suntour parts being dangerous isn't even worth dignifing with a
response.
Phil Brown

First off Shimano Sora one of the cheapest groups available today is
much better in terms of proformance & is lighter than anthing produced
20 years ago.

Second , I'm not saying suntour is dangerous on its own but any 20
year old parts can be stems & bars included. I have seen plenty of
broken crank arms from fatigue. I have seen campagnolo sr / nr break .
It happens. I think the site "Campy only" has a segment about fatigued
parts. maybe you should check it out.

Quoted message said:

if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. > Phil Brown

http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/retrobike.html

On 22 Jul 2004 01:19:48 GMT, [email hidden] (Phil Brown)

Quoted message said:

First, your statement about the cheapest of the new stuff being 100 times
better than the best of the old is just absurd. Campy NR and SR and the last of

It's true that these were beautiful cold-forged jewels, but they don't
last forever. In fact, for their quality level they probably broke a
lot.

Quoted message said:

the Simplex stuff were some of the finest parts ever produced

I've got Simplex retrofriction levers on some of my bikes and they are
great, but other than that what Simplex part was so good?

Quoted message said:

today, in fact did work fine on my ride today. And, barring stems and
handlebars, if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. I've been riding for more
than 40 years and I know of NO broken or fatigued parts except bars and stems
failing

Jobst Brandt has reported all kinds of crank failures, including
high-end Campagnolo. I don't know about the hospital part though....

From http://yarchive.net/bike/frame_break.html
"I have ridden bikes plenty long, and in that time have had more than
two dozen Campagnolo Record cranks break, two crank spindles, 2 pedal
axles, many rear axles and a few Dura Ace cranks among other lesser
components."

JT

"Evan Evans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. > Phil Brown

http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/retrobike.html

That's just one example. Actually, the better site for broken cranks and bb
is:

http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/000.html

Evan Evans said:

The cheepest of the new is 100 times better than the best of the old

That's tripe. I'd take 80s friction shifting over very low-end modern
gear, because the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
mis-indexed.

Quoted message said:

a new bike. Besides if you plan to ride much at all you will be
putting yourself at risk riding old fatigued parts. Bikes are not
ment to last forever & they won't. Not worth the emergancy room visit.

How will a broken gear shifter land you in A&E?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

bfd said:

http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html

Thanks for the link. This is a great statement from the page:

"Campag cranks were the vast majority of failures because they saw the
really serious miles. Victims were sure not to stray from Campag for
fear of even worse experiences. The more of their cranks you broke the
more you recommended to others like yourself to use nothing else."

JT

"big Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all

I have a 86 bianchi strada lx 62 cm steel lugged frame. I really like
this bike. Would it be worth while to upgrade the components on it. It
has the original suntour group on it. This group has the friction index
shifters if that helps. How would I go about upgrading this. I was
thinking low level shimano would fit my budget. My main assumption here
is that new low level technology is better than old mid to high
technology because of technology creep (ie. the tech in the high end
get passed down to the low end as the high end gets better). Also any
info on the suntour group that I have on it now (original components)
would be helpful. What is the advantage of the old over the new? What
is the advantage of the new over the old?

A reasonable upgrade would be Shimano bar-end shifters, new rear wheel,
cassette, and rear derailer. This would cost about $200 & get you to 9-speed
with modern components. Otherwise, especially if the old rear wheel is good,
you might be better off just saving for a new bike.

Sheldon Brown said:

There's a cool, little known trick if you have Sun Tour 6-speed indexing
stuff:

Install a Shimano rear derailer and a 7-speed freewheel (new chain, too)
and it will all index just fine!

Does this imply that a Shimano 7-speed freewheel will fit onto a wheel
that is spaced for a Sun Tour 6-speed freewheel without any changes to
the spacing or dishing?

-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
the hospital I will publically retract this post. > Phil Brown

http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/retrobike.html

Sorry, I thought we were talking about sudden failures here. The cited crank
had a a crack through about a third of the crank-the dark area-before it
failed. The owner of these cranks put himself in the hospital by not checking
his equipment every once in a while. And I have never seen a broken crank that
didn't exibit signs of abuse, usually grounded pedal eyes.
Phil Brown