HID headlamps

On 04/24/2003 20:00, in article [email hidden], "Chris

Zacho 'The Wheelman said:

I'm not really considering buying one of these, not at $400 a shot when I have a perfectly good
NightSun Team Issue.

But I was wondering if anybody here has one and do they offer what they claim? 3-4 hours runtime,
with a light output equivalent to a 30-40 watt halogen? (I hear Cat-Eye's is 80W (equivalent))

And how do you replace the bulb? None of the sites i've visited sell them. Do they never wear out?
According to NightSun (who sells a model of their own) they do. Bulb life depends on how often
it's switched on/off.

Your comments?

They put out a very different shade of light that I think is more visible to onlookers, but does a
poorer job of lighting up stuff on the road. The beam patterns are wider than I would want for road
riding. I'd put the 10W HID equal maybe to a 30W halogen, but I think that is pushing it a little.
The bulbs pretty much replace as regular MR-11s, but are about $100 a pop and the bulbs are fairly
fragile and don't last as long as halogens, particularly if you are turning them on and off
frequently. I replaced the wide bulb in my NR HID with a 6 degree bulb sold through the NR dive
light website and am happier with it than I was with the wide one, but I don't think I'd pay full
price for the system.

Baird

--
Baird Webel Washington DC

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not really considering buying one of these, not at $400 a shot when I have a perfectly good
NightSun Team Issue.

But I was wondering if anybody here has one and do they offer what they claim? 3-4 hours runtime,
with a light output equivalent to a 30-40 watt halogen? (I hear Cat-Eye's is 80W (equivalent))

And how do you replace the bulb? None of the sites i've visited sell them. Do they never wear out?
According to NightSun (who sells a model of their own) they do. Bulb life depends on how often
it's switched on/off.

Here's one model: yellowjersey.orgcygo.htmlOpen ↗ the Cygo 12V metal halide 40Wequivalent HID
"ZForce". They do really work and are impressively bright. Four hours with NIMH or three hours with
NiCd. Two screws to remove the front cover and the lamp pops out.( And more like $300 than $400.)

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

I have a Storm HID system. I also have a NiteRider Classic (32 watt max). The Storm is so much
better and well worth it. Yes, four hours our more out of a charge is real. On one ride, I tried
using both lights (it was quite technical). After a while, I virtually saw no use for the Classic,
due to the Storm's bright (and white!) light.

Lee

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not really considering buying one of these, not at $400 a shot when I have a perfectly good
NightSun Team Issue.

But I was wondering if anybody here has one and do they offer what they claim? 3-4 hours runtime,
with a light output equivalent to a 30-40 watt halogen? (I hear Cat-Eye's is 80W (equivalent))

And how do you replace the bulb? None of the sites i've visited sell them. Do they never wear out?
According to NightSun (who sells a model of their own) they do. Bulb life depends on how often
it's switched on/off.

Your comments?

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

Chris Zacho The Wheelman said:

But I was wondering if anybody here has one and do they offer what they claim? 3-4 hours runtime,
with a light output equivalent to a 30-40 watt halogen? (I hear Cat-Eye's is 80W (equivalent))

I picked up a Nightrider HID on special at Interbike last fall and can't believe what I was missing.
Runtime and visibility have met or exceeded advertised claims.

Quoted message said:

And how do you replace the bulb?

Don't know yet, but it looks to be just like any other Nightrider lamp.

Quoted message said:

None of the sites i've visited sell them.

Try a real bike shop.

Quoted message said:

Do they never wear out?

Yes. Just because online dealers don't list something dosen't mean it's not available. <G> The lamps
ARE quite a bit more expensive, and I can see a typical LBS selling them for a bit less than a
typical markup.

Barry

"Lee Bower" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a Storm HID system. I also have a NiteRider Classic (32 watt max). The Storm is so much
better and well worth it. Yes, four hours our more

out

Quoted message said:

of a charge is real. On one ride, I tried using both lights (it was quite technical). After a
while, I virtually saw no use for the Classic, due to the Storm's bright (and white!) light.

Lee

I did a weekly series of night rides this last winter with a pair of guys with HIDs. I had to make
them ride in front of me because their HID lights simply overwhelmed my 10w older Niterider system.
Those babies are BRIGHT!

I'd ride it on the road if I were riding somewhere with lots of uncontrolled cross traffic, but I
think its overkill for most streets.

Mike

Barry Burke Jr. said:

"None of the sites i've visited sell them.

Try a real bike shop.

Quoted message said:

Do they never wear out?

Yes. Just because online dealers don't list something doesn't mean it's not available. <G> =A0 The
lamps ARE quite a bit more expensive, and I can see a typical LBS selling them for a bit less than a
typical markup.

Barry"

Actually, the websites I was referring to were those of the manufacturers (NightSun, Night
Rider, etc.).

Still, $100 a pop for a bulb that doesn't last as long still doesn't seem worth it. I get 3 1/2
hours out of my NS-TI I could get as much as 4 with the newer NiMH's. And still get 35 watts of
light on maximum, ten seems fine for normal use.

I don't MTB at night. Most of it's use has been retired to commuting. There aren't many double
centuries on this corner of the country.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

Chris Zacho The Wheelman said:

Actually, the websites I was referring to were those of the manufacturers (NightSun, Night
Rider, etc.).

I don't think NiteRider sells direct, so there really is no reason to list a spare part. The spare
parts are usually listed in the wholesale distributor's catalogs every dealer has.

Quoted message said:

Still, $100 a pop for a bulb that doesn't last as long still doesn't seem worth it. I get 3 1/2
hours out of my NS-TI I could get as much as 4 with the newer NiMH's. And still get 35 watts of
light on maximum, ten seems fine for normal use.

I don't MTB at night. Most of it's use has been retired to commuting.

That's why it dosen't seem worth it to you. <G> A package as bright as the HID, with 2-3 times the
runtime of the older systems, at about half the size and weight, is the Holy Grail to a night
mountain biker. These lights really are THAT good on technical terrain.

Many serious offroad night riders formerly rode TWO systems, one on the helmet, and one on the bars.
My setup was a 6 volt NiteRider Digital Headtrip on the helmet, and a 12 volt Digital 12 dual beam
on the hbars. Now, it's simply the HID on the helmet and a cheapie alkaline powered backup light in
the Camelbak. The cheapie is only carried in case a crash damages the main system. On group rides,
we only carry 1 cheapie for every 4 riders.

For commuting, I'm with you. I actually prefer the 12v dual beam on the hbar for two reasons, I
don't blind motorists when I instinctively look at them, and the 12v system has a taillight system
that runs off the main battery. The 12v system has a very long runtime on it's dimmest setting,
which is often fine for well lit roads. I only use the maximum brightness for very dark roads, very
busy main roads, and intersections. On the commuter, I also use alkaline powered blinkies on the
rear and Tire Flys on the valve stems. My friends tell me I look like police car with someone
pulled over. <G>

Barry

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup "@thankyou.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris Zacho The Wheelman said:

Actually, the websites I was referring to were those of the manufacturers (NightSun, Night
Rider, etc.).

I don't think NiteRider sells direct, so there really is no reason to list a spare part. The spare
parts are usually listed in the wholesale distributor's catalogs every dealer has.

Quoted message said:

Still, $100 a pop for a bulb that doesn't last as long still doesn't seem worth it. I get 3 1/2
hours out of my NS-TI I could get as much as 4 with the newer NiMH's. And still get 35 watts of
light on maximum, ten seems fine for normal use.

I don't MTB at night. Most of it's use has been retired to commuting.

That's why it dosen't seem worth it to you. <G> A package as bright as the HID, with 2-3 times the
runtime of the older systems, at about half the size and weight, is the Holy Grail to a night
mountain biker. These lights really are THAT good on technical terrain.

Many serious offroad night riders formerly rode TWO systems, one on the helmet, and one on the
bars. My setup was a 6 volt NiteRider Digital Headtrip on the helmet, and a 12 volt Digital 12
dual beam on the hbars. Now, it's simply the HID on the helmet and a cheapie alkaline powered
backup light in the Camelbak. The cheapie is only carried in case a crash damages the main system.
On group rides, we only carry 1 cheapie for every 4 riders.

For commuting, I'm with you. I actually prefer the 12v dual beam on the hbar for two reasons, I
don't blind motorists when I instinctively look at them, and the 12v system has a taillight system
that runs off the main battery. The 12v system has a very long runtime on it's dimmest setting,
which is often fine for well lit roads. I only use the maximum brightness for very dark roads,
very busy main roads, and intersections. On the commuter, I also use alkaline powered blinkies on
the rear and Tire Flys on the valve stems. My friends tell me I look like police car with someone
pulled over. <G>

This is why I don't recommend HID lights for commuters. It's not so much that they're too bright,
but the beam pattern is too large . They're perfect for off-road.

Still, to me, it's not acceptable technology until the costs come WAY down.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

Robin Hubert said:

Still, to me, it's not acceptable technology until the costs come WAY down.

$300 to ride offroad after work, all year 'round, is a deal to me. <G>

Barry

On 04/26/2003 13:21, in article [email hidden], "Robin

Hubert said:

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup "@thankyou.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For commuting, I'm with you. I actually prefer the 12v dual beam on the hbar for two reasons, I
don't blind motorists when I instinctively look at them, and the 12v system has a taillight
system that runs off the main battery. The 12v system has a very long runtime on it's dimmest
setting, which is often fine for well lit roads. I only use the maximum brightness for very dark
roads, very busy main roads, and intersections. On the commuter, I also use alkaline powered
blinkies on the rear and Tire Flys on the valve stems. My friends tell me I look like police car
with someone pulled over. <G>

This is why I don't recommend HID lights for commuters. It's not so much that they're too bright,
but the beam pattern is too large . They're perfect for off-road.

The narrow HID bulb works quite well for commuting, it is 6 degrees, which is a touch narrower than
most of the MR-11 spot bulbs, but with the amount of light that spills out of an HID bulb, it seems
to light a similar swath of road. The annoying thing is that you generally can't buy a cycling light
with the narrow bulb, although I think a company in the UK sells it. I have the Niterider HID and
had the bulb go out after far too short of a time, so I got a narrow bulb from the NR diving light
website niteriderdive.comniteriderdive.comOpen ↗ It is an easy, direct replacement for the wider bulb NR is
using in their cycling lights.

Baird

--
Baird Webel Washington DC

very cheap entertainment if you ask me too

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup "@thankyou.com> wrote in message

url='news:'news:/url... Robin Hubert said:

Still, to me, it's not acceptable technology until the costs come WAY

down.

$300 to ride offroad after work, all year 'round, is a deal to me. <G>

Barry

Chris Zacho The Wheelman said:

I'm not really considering buying one of these, not at $400 a shot when I have a perfectly good
NightSun Team Issue.

But I was wondering if anybody here has one and do they offer what they claim? 3-4 hours runtime,
with a light output equivalent to a 30-40 watt halogen? (I hear Cat-Eye's is 80W (equivalent))

I've been using a 10 watt (actually consumes 13W) Light&Motion HID for about 9 months. The runtime
is as good as advertised. I've never had a 30-40 watt halogen, but it is far brighter than my
previous 10-watt halogen. Bright enough to where motorists actually do pay attention and stop at
intersections, etc. This is a great relief when riding at night.

Quoted message said:

And how do you replace the bulb? None of the sites i've visited sell them. Do they never wear out?
According to NightSun (who sells a model of their own) they do. Bulb life depends on how often it's
switched on/off.

The manufacturer of this model requires you to send the unit in for bulb replacement to keep under
warranty. I have read though that you can do this yourself. I'm still on the original bulb, with
about 200 hours of use. The bulbs are expensive - about $100 for a new bulb. As far as I know, there
is only one manufacturer of these 10W HID bulbs - Welch Allyn -- so all the companies selling
systems use their bulbs. If I recall correctly WA rates the bulb life at 700 hours.

You can get a lot of information about HID and other bike lighting systems at BikeCurrent

topica.comreadOpen ↗

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup "@thankyou.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robin Hubert said:

Still, to me, it's not acceptable technology until the costs come WAY

down.

Quoted message said:

$300 to ride offroad after work, all year 'round, is a deal to me. <G>

Sure, Barry, I agree. I ride lights that cost that much. Wait 'till you have to replace the bulb
though, and then write back about your feelings.

FWIW, I suggest you buy one now, anyway. It's good to have a spare (like the spare headlight and
taillight bulbs I carry in/for my car).

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

Robin Hauberk said:

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup "@thankyou.com> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

$300 to ride offroad after work, all year 'round, is a deal to me. <G>

Sure, Barry, I agree. I ride lights that cost that much. Wait 'till you have to replace the bulb
though, and then write back about your feelings.

What feelings? <G> I know full well going in that a new bulb will cost me $100. I don't cry when I
put $120 worth of tires on a bike, either. I can spend $100 on ONE round of golf, or for ONE high
quality table saw blade! I think the replacement bulb is just as worth it. I made a conscious
decision to buy the light knowing exactly what replacement parts costs. It's still worth it to me.
You payz your money...

Barry

I use an MR11 globe from Philips. It is 6v 15watt and has a narrow 6 degree beam The light is
brightest one I have seen so far, but then I do live in a small city.

The globe no. is 6424 for anybody who may be interested and cost me Aus$30. from my local
light shop.

Peter

"Baird Webel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 04/26/2003 13:21, in article [email hidden], "Robin

Hubert said:

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup "@thankyou.com>

wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For commuting, I'm with you. I actually prefer the 12v dual beam on the hbar for two reasons, I
don't blind motorists when I instinctively look at them, and the 12v system has a taillight
system that runs off the main battery. The 12v system has a very long runtime on it's dimmest
setting, which is often fine for well lit roads. I only use

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maximum brightness for very dark roads, very busy main roads, and intersections. On the
commuter, I also use alkaline powered blinkies

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the rear and Tire Flys on the valve stems. My friends tell me I look like police car with
someone pulled over. <G>

This is why I don't recommend HID lights for commuters. It's not so

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that they're too bright, but the beam pattern is too large . They're perfect for off-road.

The narrow HID bulb works quite well for commuting, it is 6 degrees, which is a touch narrower
than most of the MR-11 spot bulbs, but with the amount of light that spills out of an HID
bulb, it seems to light a similar swath of road. The annoying thing is that you generally
can't buy a cycling

light

Quoted message said:

with the narrow bulb, although I think a company in the UK sells it. I

have

Quoted message said:

the Niterider HID and had the bulb go out after far too short of a time,

so

Quoted message said:

I got a narrow bulb from the NR diving light website niteriderdive.comniteriderdive.comOpen ↗ It is an easy,
direct replacement for the wider bulb NR is using in their cycling lights.

Baird

--
Baird Webel Washington DC