Less Dorky Mirror

Michael said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

I use a helmet-mounter mirror.

Bill "more dorky, and effective (IMO)" S.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

I've resisted mirrors all my life, but I must ride a two lane
road with a 55 mile an hour speed limit with absolutely no
paved shoulder. I hug the white line right now, looking back
sometimes but with the chance of going into the road or into
the gravel.

Some handlebar mirrors effectively widen your handlebar,
and thereby makes your bike 'wider' in the eyes of drivers.
Especially the ones that velcro onto MTB handlebars.

I scare other riders with my handlebar width + mirror.
But most of them are too willing to ride in the door
zone, anyway.

It can help to look a little scary, and a handlebar mirror
can do that. Heck, you don't even have to use it. But as
(I think it was Clint Eastwood's 'Diry Harry'😉 said: "A
man's got to know his limitations."

A lot of folks will jump on the part where you say you
hug the white line. Actually, if you're just over the
crest of hill, that might be the best place to be, because
in that situation, there's absolutely /nothing/ you can
do to enhance your visibility. Otherwise, it's best to
be where you can be seen and respected. Even if reluctantly
respected. At least you get to keep your skin on.

You say it's a 2-lane. I assume the lanes are narrow.
Those are the most uncomfortable roads to ride on, when
the traffic is thick. If there are plentious opportunities
for traffic behind you to pass you, I'd say take the lane.
If there isn't, and there's nowhere to ditch, I'd say find an
alternate route. If there's no alternate route, I don't know
what to say.

good luck,
Tom

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This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.
I know this will start a war but it is what I do when I 'must' ride on a
road with no bicycle lanes. When you are going against traffic at least
you can see the cars coming and pull off into the dirt on the side if need
be. I have been hit by a car while riding properly on the right with no
bicycle lane. Teenager in a low rider Datsun pickup. His mirror hit my
elbow wnough to hurt me and knock his mirror loose and the kid never
stopped. The road was wide enough for him to pull around and there was no
traffic coming. If I had been a 'Wrong Way Rider' I could have just gone
into the dirt. Being legal is a small consolation if you get killed.
BTW, this is only for country roads, which it sounds like if it is a 55
MPH road.
Now everyone else can tell me what bad advice this is.
FWIW I have to ride my MTB about 20 miles on the road to get to the good
off road stuff.
Bill Baka

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:05:33 -0500, Michael <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

I've resisted mirrors all my life, but I must ride a two lane
road with a 55 mile an hour speed limit with absolutely no
paved shoulder. I hug the white line right now, looking back
sometimes but with the chance of going into the road or into
the gravel.

Thanks,

Mike

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.

If it's a high-speed, narrow-laned road w/ lots of curves
and/or hills and no opportunities for fast traffic behind
to overtake, it might be a good case for riding on neither
side of the road.

If you can do what the cars can't do, it might be worth it.
But if you can't do what the cars also can't do, it's
definitely not worth it. And cars generally can't get away
with wrong-way driving.

regards,
Tom

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"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.
I know this will start a war but it is what I do when I 'must' ride on a
road with no bicycle lanes. When you are going against traffic at least
you can see the cars coming and pull off into the dirt on the side if need
be. I have been hit by a car while riding properly on the right with no
bicycle lane. Teenager in a low rider Datsun pickup. His mirror hit my
elbow wnough to hurt me and knock his mirror loose and the kid never
stopped. The road was wide enough for him to pull around and there was no
traffic coming. If I had been a 'Wrong Way Rider' I could have just gone
into the dirt. Being legal is a small consolation if you get killed.
BTW, this is only for country roads, which it sounds like if it is a 55
MPH road.
Now everyone else can tell me what bad advice this is.
FWIW I have to ride my MTB about 20 miles on the road to get to the good
off road stuff.
Bill Baka

You wrote:
"When you are going against traffic at least you can see the cars coming
and pull off into the dirt on the side if need be"

But I wonder how you know WHEN to dive for the dirt. It's not as if every
car will force you off the road, but from a distance, it will probably look
like there won't be enough room for any of them. As cars approach, they
probably move over to make more room, but how can you tell for sure that
they will? If they do, then it wouldn't have mattered what side of the road
you're on and if they don't, it will be too late for you to do anything
about it anyway.

One more thing, there's a potential for meeting cyclists head-on. Do you
pull off the road for them? If not, there's less room than ever.

All in all, as you suspected, you have offered bad advice. If the road is
that unrideable, don't ride it!

-Don

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 00:14:32 -0700, Bill <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.
I know this will start a war but it is what I do when I 'must' ride on a
road with no bicycle lanes. When you are going against traffic at least
you can see the cars coming and pull off into the dirt on the side if need
be.

Looks like the usual confusion of the specific with the general. In
general there is no doubt that riding with the traffic flow is much
safer. Some people are thrown clear of burning cars because they are
not wearing seat belts. Is that a good argument for not wearing a
seat belt?

Hits from behind are extremely rare. Most crashes are from cars
failing to yield right of way; by putting yourself where they are
looking for traffic you do a lot to reduce the chances of that - and
if we're resorting to anecdotal evidence, the only time I've been
forced to bail out was by an overtaking car coming the other way. If
I'd been wrong-way riding I'd have been dead.

Start with Effective Cycling. That's known to work.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

I've resisted mirrors all my life, but I must ride a two lane
road with a 55 mile an hour speed limit with absolutely no
paved shoulder. I hug the white line right now, looking back
sometimes but with the chance of going into the road or into
the gravel.

Thanks,

Mike

Not sure about the "Dork Factor", but if you want a mirror that truly works
well, get the Take a Look mirror. It has a wide field of view, and can be
mounted to your glasses, or your helmet. Here are some reviews:
http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/Extras/product_86204.shtml

http://users.rcn.com/icebike/Equipment/cyclingmirrors.htm

I often ride on roads with 45-50mph traffic, with no shoulder and fairly low
traffic volumes. With the mirror, I can easily see traffic from behind.
When I see someone coming from behind, I move a foot or so to the left when
they are still quite a ways back. This forces them to start swinging wider
in order to pass me. As they get close, I drift back to the right so there
is a good amount of space when they go around me. With the mirror, I can
easily monitor the overtaking traffic and if they are not moving far enough
to their left, I have at least 2-3 feet of lane to my right that I can dive
into.

FWIW, if there is oncoming traffic at the same time, I move to the center of
the lane and signal with a rearward-facing left hand and a shake of my head
that they are not to pass. When it's clear, I move to the right and wave
them around. I've found that this assertive approach is appreciated and
respected by most drivers (especially elderly drivers), who are otherwise
unsure of how to safely pass a bicycle. I even get waves from folks as they
pass (all five fingers most of the time).

~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

Bill said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.

There is never a reason for riding against traffic. You're only confusing
the motorist, egregiously breaking the law, and adding to the potential
impact speed vs. subtracting from it.

Please refrain from riding until you can wrap your head around this.
Seriously--no offense meant at all.

😄

Michael said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

It's all about how you pull it off--only you can make it "dorky".

You know those hideous drooping pants that have become the teen signature
over the last decade? From what I've heard, the root of this style is what
happens in jail: they take your belt and shoelaces, so in addition to
being rather at the disadvantage in a cage, you've the additional
humiliation of having your pants falling down.

Well, somewhere along the line a guy thought--hey I'll just run with it
and behaved like he meant for his pants to snuggle around mid crack. The
others were impressed and brought this syle to the street with an attitude
that says--you tell me that my pants are falling down and I'll whup you so
damn hard they'll send me to the place where belts are confiscated!

Take concept, apply to helmet mirror.

"maxo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

It's all about how you pull it off--only you can make it "dorky".

You know those hideous drooping pants that have become the teen signature
over the last decade? From what I've heard, the root of this style is what
happens in jail: they take your belt and shoelaces, so in addition to
being rather at the disadvantage in a cage, you've the additional
humiliation of having your pants falling down.

Well, somewhere along the line a guy thought--hey I'll just run with it
and behaved like he meant for his pants to snuggle around mid crack. The
others were impressed and brought this syle to the street with an attitude
that says--you tell me that my pants are falling down and I'll whup you so
damn hard they'll send me to the place where belts are confiscated!

Take concept, apply to helmet mirror.

Thanks, everyone, for the information. The riding tips are especially
helpful.

About the dork factor: You don't see the guys on the Tour de France
using mirrors. I'm just saying...

Best,

Mike

"Bill" wrote...

Quoted message said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.
I know this will start a war but it is what I do when I 'must' ride on a
road with no bicycle lanes. When you are going against traffic at least
you can see the cars coming and pull off into the dirt on the side if need
be.

What if there's no possibility of pulling off into the dirt (road passes
through a narrow road cut, road passes along the side of a steep slope, road
has a guard rail)?

Quoted message said:

Now everyone else can tell me what bad advice this is.

Next time you get the urge to offer advice about riding in traffic, don't.
Advice like yours could get someone killed.
--
mark

A: What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Q: Top Posters

Michael said:

About the dork factor: You don't see the guys on the Tour de France
using mirrors. I'm just saying...

they don't ride in traffic so it doesn't apply 😉

I've seen plenty of clubbers around here using mirrors for safety in the
paceline--most of them using a small convex rectangular bar-end in the
drops. I don't know what brand or I'd steer you toward it.

Speaking of dorky, the average dismounted fully dressed cyclist has many
other pressing issues. The shorts and cleated shoes tend to make one look
like a duck that just crapped its diaper.

waddle waddle

😄

Michael said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

I've resisted mirrors all my life, but I must ride a two lane
road with a 55 mile an hour speed limit with absolutely no
paved shoulder. I hug the white line right now, looking back
sometimes but with the chance of going into the road or into
the gravel.

Thanks,

Mike

Why do you "have to" ride on this road? My advice is find an alternate
route. Or use a car. Where I used to live in California we have lots of
those kind of roads with lots of people in a hurry using them. But if
you say you must use this road while on your bike then I vote for the
helmet mounted mirror for its narrower profile.

Kenny Lee

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:12:37 GMT, Don DeMair <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.
I know this will start a war but it is what I do when I 'must' ride on a
road with no bicycle lanes. When you are going against traffic at least
you can see the cars coming and pull off into the dirt on the side if
need
be. I have been hit by a car while riding properly on the right with no
bicycle lane. Teenager in a low rider Datsun pickup. His mirror hit my
elbow wnough to hurt me and knock his mirror loose and the kid never
stopped. The road was wide enough for him to pull around and there was
no
traffic coming. If I had been a 'Wrong Way Rider' I could have just gone
into the dirt. Being legal is a small consolation if you get killed.
BTW, this is only for country roads, which it sounds like if it is a 55
MPH road.
Now everyone else can tell me what bad advice this is.
FWIW I have to ride my MTB about 20 miles on the road to get to the good
off road stuff.
Bill Baka

You wrote:
"When you are going against traffic at least you can see the cars coming
and pull off into the dirt on the side if need be"

But I wonder how you know WHEN to dive for the dirt. It's not as if every
car will force you off the road, but from a distance, it will probably
look
like there won't be enough room for any of them. As cars approach, they
probably move over to make more room, but how can you tell for sure that
they will? If they do, then it wouldn't have mattered what side of the
road
you're on and if they don't, it will be too late for you to do anything
about it anyway.

One more thing, there's a potential for meeting cyclists head-on. Do you
pull off the road for them? If not, there's less room than ever.

When I meet a cyclist (rarely) I pull off for him as a courtesy.

Quoted message said:

All in all, as you suspected, you have offered bad advice. If the road
is
that unrideable, don't ride it!

Bad roads are all I have. Since I have to deal with logging trucks and
rednecks driving on the right side would be suicidal in some areas. If
there is no bike lane and 3 big trucks come in a row, not all of them will
even attempt to move. I will pull off just seeing them come.
I am still alive at 55 so it works for me. BTW I ride on the right in the
city and residential areas, and where there are bike lanes.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

-Don

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maxo said:

Bill said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.

There is never a reason for riding against traffic. You're only confusing
the motorist, egregiously breaking the law, and adding to the potential
impact speed vs. subtracting from it.

Survival is a real good reason.

Quoted message said:

Please refrain from riding until you can wrap your head around this.
Seriously--no offense meant at all.

If you rode around Beale AFB in northern California you would see what I
mean. The roads are seriously bicycle unfriendly. Between big trucks,
rednecks, and fly boys there are a lot of drivers who could care less
about giving bicycles part of their road.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

😄

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mark said:

"Bill" wrote...

Quoted message said:

This sounds like a good case for riding on the wrong side of the road.
I know this will start a war but it is what I do when I 'must' ride on a
road with no bicycle lanes. When you are going against traffic at least
you can see the cars coming and pull off into the dirt on the side if
need
be.

What if there's no possibility of pulling off into the dirt (road passes
through a narrow road cut, road passes along the side of a steep slope,
road
has a guard rail)?

I walk the bike if there is a real bad area. Being in the saddle 100% of
the time is not mandatory.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now everyone else can tell me what bad advice this is.

Next time you get the urge to offer advice about riding in traffic,
don't.
Advice like yours could get someone killed.

It has kept me alive and unhit since I started doing it, but only on
seriously bad roads that I must take to get to the fun roads. Citys,
suburbs, bike lanes, I use the right side.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

--
mark

A: What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Q: Top Posters

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"Michael" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

I've resisted mirrors all my life, but I must ride a two lane
road with a 55 mile an hour speed limit with absolutely no
paved shoulder. I hug the white line right now, looking back
sometimes but with the chance of going into the road or into
the gravel.

Thanks,

Mike

Personally, I think helmet mirrors look dorky. That might be in part
because I'm not coordinated enough to use one. When I tried, instead of
just moving my eyeballs to see the mirror, I'd turn my head. Well, then
what was behind me wasn't behind me anymore. I'd end up with headaches from
straining my eyes and neck trying to get the view I wanted in the little
mirror. I could never relax into it. That may be because I got used to a
good handlebar mirror before I tried the helmet mirror.

There's a very nice little mirror made by Rhode Gear that plugs right into
the bar end where the tape plug would normally go. It's very unobrusive and
doesn't stick out in traffic. Despite this, it's very effective. At a
glance I get a very full view behind and it isn't much affected by road
vibration. Rhode Gear has several models that attach in different ways.
This one is a mirror affixed by one pivot bolt to a plug that goes in the
bar end. It's very simple and clean.

If you get one off these, I'd suggest you do the following to get the best
result: use a razor or box cutter and trim off the bar tape right at the
end of the bars. It's very easy to do. Make the tape flush with the bar
end. That way the rubber plug makes direct contact with the inside of the
bar. After you've ridden the bike and have the mirror adjusted just right
for you, use a little electricians tape to wrap the exposed part of the plug
and the end of the bar. This keeps the mirror secure and also keeps the
tape from unraveling.

I take a lot of [censored] from some of the local racer dudes when I pull up at
centuries with my little mirror on my K2 or Trek 5500. The dork factor
drops very quickly when I ride them off my wheel.

Bob C.
P.S. Please don't take the advice of the guy who suggested riding on the
wrong side of the road. It's a VERY bad idea. You might get away with it
in West Texas where the sight distance is 30 miles. But where there are any
hills or curves, the suddenness of head-on encounters creates extreme
danger. Besides, nothing could be dorkier!

Michael said:

Which is less dorky: a mirror on the helmet or a mirror
on the handlebars?

All mirrors are dorky! ;-)

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Bill said:

It has kept me alive and unhit since I started doing it

Are you sure it wasn't wearing the same underwear everyday or some other
superstitous falsehood?

Look, I got yelled at by an older fellow on a bike a couple weeks ago, and
by the looks of his gear I assumed he's been in the saddle a number of
years--I turned into the alley to get to my garage [in a car of course]
and he was riding on the wrong side of the road and had just turned onto
the street we were sharing. He wiped out pretty hard from his brakes
seizing, but no major damage was done. There was no way I could have seen
him because of his behaviour and an inch more and I would have perhaps
killed the guy. He layed into me with this anti-motorist rant, not knowing
that I cycle many more miles than I drive per year--I responded that this
ain't Britain and if he continues to break the law in such fashion I won't
have any sympathy if I kill him next time. Such is the law of Darwin.