bikes and crosswalks

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

As a pedestrian, I have NEVER ONCE had a bike stop for me when crossing a crosswalk, ever. Nor
have I EVER ONCE seen a bike stop for any pedestrian, ever. If a bicyclist anywhere in the world
has ever once stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, it has not been my good fortune to see it.
Even when the cars are stopped, the bikes ALWAYS try to whiz through. Always.

I think you're correct, in general. Keep in mind that there are a lot of places where the only
crosswalks are at controlled intersections, so stopping for the stop sign/stop light automatically
includes stopping for crossing pedestrians.

Quoted message said:

Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is that
100% of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not generalizing.

No, you're probably right.

Quoted message said:

I have zero sympathy for you political cyclists and your cause, seeing the way you yourselves
treat the people one notch down the conveyance food chain.

And now you take a mighty leap from reason to rant. It's your right, of course, but recognize that
everything you say from here on out reads as a fairly inept attempt to justify irrational behaviour
and intolerance.

Quoted message said:

It wouldn't trouble me in the least to see you banned from the roadways and sidewalks and
relegated to bike paths. Given a choice between hoofing it and dealing with you [censored], and
driving my 10MPG beast 1 mile to the store, I'll drive every time. If you don't like my SUV,
well, sorry, but that's just too damn bad. Vote for Gore or Nader again in 2004 if it makes you
feel better. All of you lack the common decency to stop for pedestrians, but most of you have the
common sense not to try to run red lights when two ton vehicles are present. So I'll drive from
now on.

It bothers you enough to post this. It bothers you enough, apparently, to make you change your
behavior. Does it bother you enough to try to help solve the problem?

Virtually nobody in the US is educated about the rights and responsibilities of cyclists. The rules
exist -- they're written into every state's vehicle code -- but nobody knows what they are. Driver's
licenses are granted with no effort to inform new drivers about how to interact with non-motor
vehicles. Drivers get married, have children, and don't know how to teach those children to behave
on the road. Drivers become teachers and politicians and city planners without ever having learned
anything about the laws regarding cycling, and so entire generations of children grow up without
ever having learned anything.

It's your society, Viktor. If choosing to wrap yourself in a steel cage and ignore the causes of the
things that annoy you is your answer, then it'll be the society you deserve.

RichC

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the street
thinkgin I will stop for them?
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

As a pedestrian, I have NEVER ONCE had a bike stop for me when crossing a crosswalk, ever. Nor
have I EVER ONCE seen a bike stop for any pedestrian, ever. If a bicyclist anywhere in the world
has ever once stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, it has not been my good fortune to see it.
Even when the cars are stopped, the bikes ALWAYS try to whiz through. Always.

I always zip right by. It's no problem avoiding a pedestrian.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Rich Clark said:

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is that
100% of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not generalizing.

No, you're probably right.

No, he's wrong. I stop for pedestrians in crosswalks when I'm on my bike. I think he's just a troll,
in fact, and that we should ignore him.

Rich Clark said:

And now you take a mighty leap from reason to rant. It's your right, of course, but recognize that
everything you say from here on out reads as a fairly inept attempt to justify irrational
behaviour and intolerance.

Do you really believe the troll has stuck around to read your response?

RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

I stop for pedestrians, I stop for cars, trucks, motorcyclists, cats, dogs, children, rabbits,
lizards, squirrels, snakes, birds and other cyclists.

From reading your rant, my guess is that were you a cyclist, you would probably not stop for anyone
or anything.

But I do.

Jon Isaacs

Jon

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in

crosswalks?

I do.

Matt O.

"Ben Pfaff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rich Clark said:

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is
that 100% of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not
generalizing.

No, you're probably right.

No, he's wrong. I stop for pedestrians in crosswalks when I'm on my bike. I think he's just a
troll, in fact, and that we should ignore him.

In real life, in cities (which is where most bikes are), the vast majority of people on bikes rarely
stop for any reason unless they absolutely have to. I'm sorry, but it's just the truth. I don't
defend it, condone it, support it, or behave that way myself. But it's just the reality. There will
always be exceptions, and perhaps you're one of them, but you (and I) are statistically
insignificant.

Sure, he's a troll. I responded because the issue is real even if the poster's motives are suspect.

RichC

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Viktor

Mikhailovich Polesov) said:

If you don't like my SUV, well, sorry, but that's just too damn bad.

Is that what this is all about? Rationalizing guilty feelings about your vehicle by lashing out at
the [oft presumed] "moral superiority" of cyclists? If so, you have my sympathy. Maybe you'd feel
better if you get yourself a bike, and ride around a bit. You could even set a good example for
those cyclists who don't stop for pedestrians. At least it would be a more proactive and productive
approach than ranting about it on UseNet.

cheers, & have a pleasant day, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

trolling trolling trolling... rawhiiiiiide!

-Luigi

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

(SNIP)

I give you a three on the Troll-O-Meter....

Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:44:36 GMT, <[email hidden]>, "Matt O'Toole"

Quoted message said:

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in

crosswalks?

I do.

Matt O.

I once received a blue ribbon from a pedestrian I'd stopped for.

Usually I have to explain to them that I'm a vehicle and they're pedestrians so they'd best move
their stupid lookin' self off the damn curb and cross the stinking street already because I'm not
gonna hold this track stand all day while they stand there picking their damn nose.
--
zk

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the street
thinkgin I will stop for them?

You don't know about the magic spell that protects you from the 2+ tons of steel and AL aiming at
you when you're walking across the crosswalk?

Unfortunately, in CA it exists. The law says that pedestrians have the right of way in the
crosswalk. You hit them, you pay through the nose (not to mention being sued...). I asked one of my
former roommates the same question, that was the answer. IIRC, it was right after someone stepped
off the curb in front of my F150 without looking to see if anyone was even coming. Talk about
stupid! As far as I'm concerned, even though you have the right of way, if you're doing something
completely stupid isn't going to protect you from harm.

To answer the OP's question at the beginning of the rant: I don't usually stop for pedestrians in
the crosswalks unless they're somewhere near where I'm riding. If you're on the other side of the
crosswalk, I'm going through. If you're not going to be in the spot that I'm about to be riding
through, then I'm usually not gonna stop. If you're in the spot that I'm about to be riding in, then
I'll either a. adjust my trajectory to avoid you, or b. stop. Of the two options, I'd rather avoid
than stop if I can.

Pedestrians moseying across the crosswalk holding up traffic REALLY gets me upset. Its the arrogance
that "you can't do anything to me 'cause I'm in the crosswalk" that gets me going. "I don't care how
long you have to wait, I'm going to take my sweet time..." When I'm crossing on foot in a crosswalk,
I'm going to hurry across so the least number of people are affected, but that's just me. When I
can, I wait till there's a break in traffic before crossing instead of walking out into the lane,
expecting people to stop.

The same people that mosey across the crosswalk are the first ones to [censored] and moan about someone
else doing it to them. Go figure.

Remind me to tell y'all about the idiot in the pickup on the 101 as the SDBC ride was leaving
Encinitas.

Mike

"Slider2699" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

(SNIP)

I give you a three on the Troll-O-Meter....

He's working on a 4, but we'll have to see how long this thread gets first.

Mike

"Fritz M" <[email hidden]+> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rich Clark said:

And now you take a mighty leap from reason to rant. It's your right, of course, but recognize
that everything you say from here on out reads as a fairly inept attempt to justify irrational
behaviour and intolerance.

Do you really believe the troll has stuck around to read your response?

Of course he will, he's dying to see how much energy he sucks into his diatribe.

Quoted message said:

I once received a blue ribbon from a pedestrian I'd stopped for.

I'd like to see that ribbon. It isn't pedestrians in crosswalks that I have a problem with, since I
obey signals. It's the damn jaywalkers.

Exercising due care and diligence is the first duty of any vehicle operator.

The law here says pedestrians have the ROW even when they don't.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:N5Hpa.4917$366.3532@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the
street thinkgin I will stop for them?

You don't know about the magic spell that protects you from the 2+ tons

of

Quoted message said:

steel and AL aiming at you when you're walking across the crosswalk?

Unfortunately, in CA it exists. The law says that pedestrians have the right of way in the
crosswalk. You hit them, you pay through the nose

(not

Quoted message said:

to mention being sued...). I asked one of my former roommates the same question, that was the
answer. IIRC, it was right after someone stepped

off

Quoted message said:

the curb in front of my F150 without looking to see if anyone was even coming. Talk about stupid!
As far as I'm concerned, even though you

have

Quoted message said:

the right of way, if you're doing something completely stupid isn't going

to

Quoted message said:

protect you from harm.

Actually CA law has provisions in the crosswalk right of way that say something to the effect that
you're not allowed to jump out in front of a car sooner than they're able to safely come to a stop.

Quoted message said:

To answer the OP's question at the beginning of the rant: I don't usually stop for pedestrians in
the crosswalks unless they're somewhere near

where

Quoted message said:

I'm riding. If you're on the other side of the crosswalk, I'm going through. If you're not going
to be in the spot that I'm about to be

riding

Quoted message said:

through, then I'm usually not gonna stop. If you're in the spot that I'm about to be riding in,
then I'll either a. adjust my trajectory to avoid you, or b. stop. Of the two options, I'd rather
avoid than stop if I

can.

Quoted message said:

Pedestrians moseying across the crosswalk holding up traffic REALLY gets

me

Quoted message said:

upset. Its the arrogance that "you can't do anything to me 'cause I'm in the crosswalk" that gets
me going. "I don't care how long you have to

wait,

Quoted message said:

I'm going to take my sweet time..."

What you're reading as arrogance may not be that. I have knee problems and cannot walk quickly
without causing problems. Also one does not have to change their gait to please those afflicted with
that modern day "get out of my way" problem.

Quoted message said:

When I'm crossing on foot in a crosswalk, I'm going to hurry across so the least number of people
are affected, but that's just me. When I can, I wait till there's a break in traffic before
crossing instead of walking out into the lane, expecting people to stop.

I do the same and agree with you that the crosswalk right of way is much abused. However, most of
the rants I see against cars, bicyclists and even pedestrians have less to do with the mode of
travel than with the current culture of rampant narcissism.

Quoted message said:

The same people that mosey across the crosswalk are the first ones to

[censored]

Quoted message said:

and moan about someone else doing it to them. Go figure.

Remind me to tell y'all about the idiot in the pickup on the 101 as the

SDBC

Quoted message said:

ride was leaving Encinitas.

"Jon Isaacs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, in CA it exists. The law says that pedestrians have the right of way in the
crosswalk.

When I am riding and I stop for some pedestrians they often thank me. I

tell

Quoted message said:

them I am a vehicle and I am required to give them the right of way.

Quoted message said:

Talk about stupid! As far as I'm concerned, even though you have the right of way, if you're
doing something completely stupid isn't going

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

protect you from harm.

This is certainly true. On the other hand, giving pedestrians the right of

way

Quoted message said:

means that motorists and cyclists don't have a hunting license.

I was looking over some statistics the other day and what was surprising

was

Quoted message said:

the percentage of traffic deaths that are pedestians. Cars are lethal

weapons

Quoted message said:

and thus require careful regulations.

Quoted message said:

Pedestrians moseying across the crosswalk holding up traffic REALLY gets

me

Quoted message said:

upset. >Its the arrogance that "you can't do anything to me 'cause I'm

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the crosswalk" that gets me going.

You are presuming their leisurely pace is due to arrogance. There is no

way to

Quoted message said:

know this. I imagine your upset is similar to that of a motorist who is

"held

Quoted message said:

up" by a cyclist. I am sure that this same thought enters the mind of a motorist who is following
a cyclist.

There are those that you can tell are lollygagging across the road just 'cause, then there are those
that are truly unable to walk any faster.

Unlike a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk, passing motorists can normally adjust their "line" and
simply go around a bicyclist. From what I've been told about the laws of CA, you risk a large fine
if you start across the crosswalk before a pedestrian is completely out of it.

Quoted message said:

This morning I was watching a blind woman with a cane find her way down a sidewalk and the across
an intersection. Pretty amazing talent.

There is room for us all out there.

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the street
thinkgin I will stop for them?
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

Probably because they know it is your legal duty to stop for them. You are in charge of that thing
you drive. It is up to you to control it at all times and not run over things in front of you. Have
a fine day! Bernie