Road or Sidewalk?

K-Man said:

I had my first encounter with a jerk with an automobile the other
day. I was riding on the main 4-lane road going through town, as far
to the right as I could without going into the gutter, when from
behind me I hear the belligerent shout of "Get off the road!" I look
back to see a college punk in a black SUV. The traffic was light, and
he had plenty of room to pass me. I just ignored him and biked on.

But the incident brought to mind a question. I'm a fairly new cyclist,
having gotten my bike for Christmas last year. I've learned all the
rules of riding on the road and sharing the road with cars, and I
follow those rules religiously. I've never had a problem with a
motorist until the above mentioned incident. I see lot of cyclists
riding on that same road, and I also see a lot of cyclists riding on
the sidewalks paralleling that road.

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available? I prefer riding on the road, and the sidewalks, while not
crammed with pedestrians, are never free of them either. What are
ya'lls thoughts? TIA!

My thought? Don't let one idiot influence your safety/enjoyment of riding.
(Don't cower over by the gutter, either; you're entitiled to the right-side
portion of the lane, and sometimes the whole damned thing.)

A bicycle is a vehicle that belongs on the road (or a trail), NOT the
sidewalk.

Bill "cautious yet assertive" S.

"K-Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had my first encounter with a jerk with an automobile the other day. I
was riding on the main 4-lane road going through town,

I'll let others deal with the 'should I take the sidewalk?' part as I'm
sure many are eager to.

My 2 cents worth regarding the 'as far to the right as I could without
going into the gutter' part: It may seem counter-intuitive, and most
jurisdictions laws are worded in the manner of: 'cyclists should stay as far
to the right as is _practical_ or _reasonable_' or some other qualifying
words BUT: sometimes that merely encourages auto-addicts to crowd you off
the road. Some motorcyclist acquaintances of mine claim similar experiences
especially wrt to cars passing them without moving fully into the other
lane. They say eventually they get crowded right off the roadway.
Consequently they ride near to the centre line to force autos to fully take
the other lane to pass.

As cyclist you should consider whether the conditions merit 'taking the
lane' for your own safety - Both to be more visible, and less likely to be
crowded off.

As I said; my 2 Canuckian cents worth.

--
Ricky: 'What's an aptitude test?'
Lahey: 'A suitability test, Ricky'
Ricky: 'I'll wear a suit if I have to'

In article <[email hidden]>, k-
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I had my first encounter with a jerk with an automobile the other day. I
was riding on the main 4-lane road going through town, as far to the
right as I could without going into the gutter, when from behind me I
hear the belligerent shout of "Get off the road!" I look back to see a
college punk in a black SUV. The traffic was light, and he had plenty of
room to pass me. I just ignored him and biked on.

But the incident brought to mind a question. I'm a fairly new cyclist,
having gotten my bike for Christmas last year. I've learned all the
rules of riding on the road and sharing the road with cars, and I follow
those rules religiously. I've never had a problem with a motorist until
the above mentioned incident. I see lot of cyclists riding on that same
road, and I also see a lot of cyclists riding on the sidewalks
paralleling that road.

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available? I prefer riding on the road, and the sidewalks, while not
crammed with pedestrians, are never free of them either. What are ya'lls
thoughts? TIA!

Pedestrians are generally much less predictable than drivers and their
vehicles, so from the way you describe it, you will probably be safer on
the road. Also, drivers don't expect fast-moving vehicles on the
sidewalk when they are coming out of side streets and driveways, and
will likely pull out in front of you. Now if there were no shoulder and
bumper-to-bumper traffic in both lanes so that you don't have any room
to ride, it might be a different matter, but bikes usually are safer on
the road than on the sidewalk.

You really have to use your judgement for any given situation.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

K-Man said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available? I prefer riding on the road, and the sidewalks, while not
crammed with pedestrians, are never free of them either. What are ya'lls
thoughts? TIA!

Ken

Here are a few links, and I'm sure others will post much better ones.
Educate yourself as to your rights and responsibilities. Don't let one
misinformed kid stop you from using the roads.

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/traffic/index.htm

http://www.sfbike.org/download/resources/Motorists-STR.pdf

California laws regarding bicycles and roadways- most states should
have similar laws, but check...

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=21001-22000&file=21200-21212

K-Man said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available?

Side-walk, not side-cycle... :P I've been known to inform folks blocking
my path in the city when walking that it's also not called a side-stand,
that's what you use to park your bike. Some denser folk with smaller cars
and motorbikes have mistaken the sidewalk for a side-park, which is
probably the most egregious of the offences. 😄

The rule/law in many if not most cities is that persons over 12 years of
age should not ride on sidewalks and should use the street in an
appropriate fashion.

I'm of the opinion that you should never ever use the sidewalk--of course
there's the rare and excusable occasion, but it should be that: rare.

You have every right to use the road unless local law or signage states
otherwise. Let the creeps yell at you, take their license plate number if
they're truly threatening, otherwise realize your emotional
superiority and cycle on with smug satisfaction. If you can't resist
yelling back--my favourite thing to do is to yell "HIYA PAT!!!!!" with a
huge smile on my face as if I'm the biggest hard of hearing idiot in the
world. Helps relieve the tension, and works even better if you can emulate
a circa 1957 Jerry Lewis accent.

Oh, and I hate to mention this, but over 25% of cyclists around here do it
(!) so, make sure you're riding on the correct side of the road--with
traffic. ;D

Happy travels!

loki said:

Some motorcyclist acquaintances of mine claim similar experiences
especially wrt to cars passing them without moving fully into the other
lane. They say eventually they get crowded right off the roadway.
Consequently they ride near to the centre line to force autos to fully take
the other lane to pass.

The motorcyclist way of treating the lane as being three--the middle being
"verboten" because of the oil drippage--works great around here in
Nashville, where folks often refuse to acknowledge a bike as a vehicle
[vs. a toy] I occupy the right side of the lane in the city here and have
have much better interaction with traffic because of it. I also make sure
to smile at folks and wink at the cute ladies... Sometimes I'll ride far
far right when I know somebody really has to pass and the going's tight,
but for the most part "occupying" the lane when I'm going withing 5-10mph
of traffic calms people that feel this burning desire to pass
otherwise--even if it's not going to really be in anybody's best
interest--since they simply can't.

The classic "pass" around here is the guy that MUST get past you because
you are a cyclist (!), then slows down and cuts you off making a right
turn. [slaps forehead and says duh...] I get a couple of these per day
even with my "assertive" style.

Oh well.

😄

K-Man said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available? I prefer riding on the road, and the sidewalks, while not
crammed with pedestrians, are never free of them either. What are ya'lls
thoughts?

Sidewalk riding is a no-no in virtually all situations. Here's John
Forester's ("Effective Cycling" author's) recommendations:

http://kba.tripod.com/ecbasic.htm

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available? I prefer riding on the road, and the sidewalks, while not
crammed with pedestrians, are never free of them either. What are ya'lls
thoughts? TIA!

Ken

As cyclists we have every right to the road that motorized vehicles do.
Unfortunately, we sometimes have run ins with the occasional ignorant
driver that disregards this fact. Most sidewalks are actually dangerous
to us as cyclists. When a sidewalk crosses driveways and side roads, for
example, there is a far greater chance of the cyclist not being seen by
motorists. There are instances such as crossing bridges and along some
narrow highways that the sidewalk may be safer (and may be mandated by
law). In these instances, especially when intersected by side roads it
is safer to walk your bike than ride it on the sidewalk. There are also
cities, towns, and states that strictly prohibit bicyclists from
sidewalks (often a fineable offense). So, in my humble opinion... stay
on the road whenever possible.
http://www.capecodcyclist.8k.comwww.capecodcyclist.8k.com

--

maxo said:

Oh, and I hate to mention this, but over 25% of cyclists around here do it
(!) so, make sure you're riding on the correct side of the road--with
traffic. ;D

Happy travels!

Ya know, I intend to follow all the rules and regs and be a responsible
rider, but mebbe b/c I'm new to road riding - I find myself violating the
rules fairly frequently, all the while going 'wtf are you doing!'.

I think it's a fear factor thing.

We have a couple scary intersections with like five lanes leading into it,
all going different directions. I try to wait for the light, but worry
about having to de-toeclip, and stuff, so I end up seeing a 'prime time'
opening and jetting through it.

I hope it's a passing thing. Gotta practice that track standing more...

Maybe it's the slight anoxia - leading to questionable judgement.

Am I the only one who does this, almost involuntarily - spur of the moment?
Yikes!

-B

In article <[email hidden]>,

K-Man said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available?

Side walks and separated paths are much more dangerous than riding on
the road. While cars crossing them usually look for traffic on the
road, they're often completely oblivious to whatever isn't on the main
road.

--
<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a>
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

K-Man said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available? I prefer riding on the road, and the sidewalks, while not
crammed with pedestrians, are never free of them either. What are
ya'lls thoughts? TIA!

Read:

http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm

Matt O.

"maxo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

loki said:

Some motorcyclist acquaintances of mine claim similar experiences
especially wrt to cars passing them without moving fully into the other
lane. They say eventually they get crowded right off the roadway.
Consequently they ride near to the centre line to force autos to fully

take

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the other lane to pass.

The motorcyclist way of treating the lane as being three--the middle being
"verboten" because of the oil drippage--works great around here in
Nashville, where folks often refuse to acknowledge a bike as a vehicle
[vs. a toy] I occupy the right side of the lane in the city here and have
have much better interaction with traffic because of it.

In the discussion with the motorcyclists the circumstance was highway
driving. I'm not sure they felt the same way about city driving.

--
Fiona: 'What kind of knight are you?!?!'
Shrek: 'One of a kind.'

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"maxo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

loki said:

Some motorcyclist acquaintances of mine claim similar experiences
especially wrt to cars passing them without moving fully into the
other lane. They say eventually they get crowded right off the
roadway. Consequently they ride near to the centre line to force
autos to fully take the other lane to pass.

The motorcyclist way of treating the lane as being three--the middle
being "verboten" because of the oil drippage--works great around
here in Nashville, where folks often refuse to acknowledge a bike as
a vehicle [vs. a toy] I occupy the right side of the lane in the
city here and have have much better interaction with traffic because
of it.

In the discussion with the motorcyclists the circumstance was highway
driving. I'm not sure they felt the same way about city driving.

Regardless, motorcyclists should be riding in the driver's wheeltrack, which
in the US is the left side of the lane, because that's the most visible
position to the driver in front's rear-view mirror and wing mirror. The
centre of the lane is safe enough on the highway, it's at intersections you
get the big oil buildups in the centre of the lane. The gutterside of the
lane is a no-no whichever way you look at it, it collects all the [censored] and
is the least visible position.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Badger_South said:

so I end up seeing a 'prime time'
opening and jetting through it.

I've been know to do that at long lights when it's safe. In Chicago it's
the standard, yet illegal practice, so motorists as a whole don't really
give a fork. Around here in Nashville I've been yelled at too many times,
and since I can't really argue seeing as I'm in the wrong, I usually say:
"look, I broke the law, but endangered nobody--If you could get away with
it wouldn't you too?" I abstain for the most part, but at a "dangerous
intersection" where all the cars for the turn lane have gone but there's
still five seconds left on the turn arrow, I usually go, just to get out
of the way, since I feel it's safer. My cop buddies who ride do the same
thing--it's a 😉 kind of situation. Officially I never do it...

Puts on asbestos underoos...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available?

it's generally illegal for cyclists to ride on the sidewalk, although
there are usually exceptions for children.

--
mac the naïf

K-Man said:

I had my first encounter with a jerk with an automobile the other day. I
was riding on the main 4-lane road going through town, as far to the
right as I could without going into the gutter, when from behind me I
hear the belligerent shout of "Get off the road!" I look back to see a
college punk in a black SUV. The traffic was light, and he had plenty of
room to pass me. I just ignored him and biked on.

Good move. I sometimes add a slow shake of my head, as in "What a dolt."

Quoted message said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available?

Absolutely not. First, you've got a legal right to the road. Second,
in many places (perhaps most?) cycling on the sidewalk is illegal.
Third, in almost every case, cycling on the sidewalk is more dangerous.

Regarding the last bit, there have been several studies of bike crashes
on different "riding facilities." AFAIK, every such study has found
sidewalks to be significantly more dangerous than roads. I can dig up
citations, if you like, but IIRC the numbers run from approximately 2.5
times as dangerous, to about a dozen times as dangerous.

And, as others have mentioned, you're not required to ride at the edge
of the gutter. It's good to be courteous, but it's often safer to be
further left.

The incident with the SUV guy is negligible. Don't let him rattle you.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

Badger_South said:

Ya know, I intend to follow all the rules and regs and be a responsible
rider, but mebbe b/c I'm new to road riding - I find myself violating the
rules fairly frequently, all the while going 'wtf are you doing!'.

I think it's a fear factor thing.

We have a couple scary intersections with like five lanes leading into it,
all going different directions. I try to wait for the light, but worry
about having to de-toeclip, and stuff, so I end up seeing a 'prime time'
opening and jetting through it.

I hope it's a passing thing. Gotta practice that track standing more...

Maybe it's the slight anoxia - leading to questionable judgement.

Am I the only one who does this, almost involuntarily - spur of the moment?
Yikes!

Well, you're probably not the only one. After all, we've all seen
people riding at night, without lights, facing traffic, with a passenger
on the handlebars, carrying a grocery bag in one arm...

Those are intentional and careless acts. What I'm describing are unplanned
things that don't go the way one initially intends.

Quoted message said:

OTOH, I certainly don't do what you describe. I don't think it's smart,
for several reasons.

No argue there.

Quoted message said:

You can practice the track stand if you want, but it sounds like you're
better off practicing getting into and out of toe clips. And BTW, an
intersection with five entering lanes shouldn't be scary at all. Just
merge into the rightmost lane that goes where you're going.

IIRC, roughly half of serious bike accidents are the fault of the
cyclist, usually violating a very clear law. My bet is that every one
of those cyclists thought, ahead of time, that he was smart - or smart
enough - to do things his illegal way.

The traffic laws work remarkably well. I'd advise obeying them.

I'm trying, believe me. It's just that sometimes, being a noob at street
riding, it can be a little overwhelming.

Trouble with getting in and out of clips is that I keep looking down and
lose my bearing and swerve a bit.

I'm workin' on it.

-B

Badger_South said:

Ya know, I intend to follow all the rules and regs and be a responsible
rider, but mebbe b/c I'm new to road riding - I find myself violating the
rules fairly frequently, all the while going 'wtf are you doing!'.

I think it's a fear factor thing.

We have a couple scary intersections with like five lanes leading into it,
all going different directions. I try to wait for the light, but worry
about having to de-toeclip, and stuff, so I end up seeing a 'prime time'
opening and jetting through it.

I hope it's a passing thing. Gotta practice that track standing more...

Maybe it's the slight anoxia - leading to questionable judgement.

Am I the only one who does this, almost involuntarily - spur of the moment?
Yikes!

Well, you're probably not the only one. After all, we've all seen
people riding at night, without lights, facing traffic, with a passenger
on the handlebars, carrying a grocery bag in one arm...

OTOH, I certainly don't do what you describe. I don't think it's smart,
for several reasons.

You can practice the track stand if you want, but it sounds like you're
better off practicing getting into and out of toe clips. And BTW, an
intersection with five entering lanes shouldn't be scary at all. Just
merge into the rightmost lane that goes where you're going.

IIRC, roughly half of serious bike accidents are the fault of the
cyclist, usually violating a very clear law. My bet is that every one
of those cyclists thought, ahead of time, that he was smart - or smart
enough - to do things his illegal way.

The traffic laws work remarkably well. I'd advise obeying them.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Alex Colvin said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My question is, should I be riding on the road when sidewalks are
available?

it's generally illegal for cyclists to ride on the sidewalk, although
there are usually exceptions for children.

sadly that's not true (in the USA). it is generally legal to ride on the
sidewalk except in business areas.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]