Almost a new beginner

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

The answer depends on your local topography. Here in Palo Alto,
the 7 speeds on my cheap bike are fine for commuting. I only
shift into the lowest gear when I'm ascending within a steep
tunnel (California Avenue bike tunnel) or one of the few hills
(Page Mill Rd when I'm tired or out of shape). But I bet those
who bike in San Francisco want more. I certainly use all 27
speeds on my road bike when I'm out on an intentionally
challenging ride.
--
"I didn't say it was your fault.
I said I was going to blame it on you."

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

I bought a 3-chainring, 8-sprocket cassette (for 24 gears) Trek comfort bike two
years ago. I ride almost exclusively in the 2nd range, mainly using sprockets
2-8. Only on steep uphills will I go into 1st range, and only on steep or long
downhills will I go into 3rd range. So maybe once a ride I'll move out of 2nd
range, on average.

So most of my gear combinations go unused. But I sure do use all the rear
sprockets, so I can keep my exertion level about the same throughout the ride. I
wouldn't want to go to a cassette with less than seven sprockets, that's for sure.
To me, for recreational riding, the most important thing is to have a wide range
of ratios available, not the number of ratios available.

--
Craig Holl
Mechanical Engineer; New Berlin, WI
http://www.midwestroads.com/craigholl/bike
*remove all numbers and caps to reply*

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

It's not the number of gears, but the RANGE of gears that is the issue. The
more range you have from hight to low, the better off you can be. It depends
you YOUR needs.

Quoted message said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start
riding, but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices.
My one and only bike from the 60's was a single
speed Schwinn, and right now I'm riding
a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked
to bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

When it comes to lots of gears, think about the range, not the number
of choices. Easy for the most extreme hills that you will encounter,
hardest for the downhills, and a few in between.

When I was in high school, ten speeds were the standard. And with
that, I had it set up so that almost all riding was in 6 gears. These
days, I have bikes with 16, 18, and 27 choices. And guess how many I
really use? 6. The overall range is not much different, and I don't
like changing gears every 18 seconds to deal with every subtle change
in the terrain.

Just because they are on the bike doesn't mean that you have to use
them. Some days I do my commute without changing gears at all.

Looking at new bikes these days, the thing to realize is that quality
bikes will be working with 9 speeds in back (18 or 27 total), and some
8 speeds (16 or 24 total)(10 also exists). If it is new and has less
than 8, you can be pretty certain that it is not a quality bike.

You can also avoid all this mess and buy a quality single speed! They
are back in style, for their simplicity and pleasure without all that
[censored] to break and go out of adjustment.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html

Like this one would get you lots of envious looks-

http://www.bianchiusa.com/sass.html

Or-

http://www.konaworld.com/kw_index.cfm

There are others out there. And turning a bike into a single speed is
pretty easy. A local bike shop could help you put one together for
much less than the models above. Count the teeth on your AMF gears and
have a bike shop set you up with the same gearing, only fifteen pounds
lighter and better brakes 🙂

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

<
<I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start
<riding, but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices.
<My one and only bike from the 60's was a single
<speed Schwinn, and right now I'm riding
<a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
<from my father.

<My first question, after having looked and talked
<to bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

<How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
<actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
<a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
<hills.

You sound like you're looking at triple front chainrings. I ride a double, 18
gears of which I use about 11. When I ride triples I shift more. You ride a
single speed and if it's suitable to the terrain you're doing now, you might not
need a triple but that's where the best pricepoints are so just don't shift
there should you get one.

The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a cassette. Freewheels are more
difficult to swap out than cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the
rear axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a better choice for
you. All in all, lots of variables but the key is to get a bike that fit.

Craig Holl said:

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

I bought a 3-chainring, 8-sprocket cassette (for 24 gears) Trek comfort bike two
years ago. I ride almost exclusively in the 2nd range, mainly using sprockets
2-8. Only on steep uphills will I go into 1st range, and only on steep or long
downhills will I go into 3rd range. So maybe once a ride I'll move out of 2nd
range, on average.

So most of my gear combinations go unused. But I sure do use all the rear
sprockets, so I can keep my exertion level about the same throughout the ride. I
wouldn't want to go to a cassette with less than seven sprockets, that's for sure.
To me, for recreational riding, the most important thing is to have a wide range
of ratios available, not the number of ratios available.

Ah, then I wonder, can you pick the gears you want, or are they sold
as sets? Like I mentioned, I haven't gotten down to specifics yet, there
is so much to learn these days... <g>

I've been thinking of perhaps riding to work a couple days a week, with some
recreational riding on the weekends.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

sittingduck said:

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

It's not the number of gears, but the RANGE of gears that is the issue. The
more range you have from hight to low, the better off you can be. It depends
you YOUR needs.

Well, so far, my needs aren't yet. <g> I may be riding to work a few days
a week, with some recreational riding on weekends. Unfortunately, it's
almost all downhill to work, so the ride back home after work will be
a pretty good workout, as it's about 600-700 ft difference in elevation
in 12 miles.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

William Holiday said:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

<How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
<actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
<a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
<hills.

You sound like you're looking at triple front chainrings. I ride a double, 18
gears of which I use about 11. When I ride triples I shift more. You ride a
single speed and if it's suitable to the terrain you're doing now, you might not
need a triple but that's where the best pricepoints are so just don't shift
there should you get one.

It seems like there is an over abundance of triples out there, and all the
new bike sales shops push them. I'm trying to look at as many as I can,
and haven't completely ruled out a single, although the hills around here
make me think that's not going to be a viable option. <g> For just
getting ready to ride with relatively short hops of 2-6 miles r/t, I can avoid
most of the hills, but for longer rides, no.

I do like the KISS principle though, so if a triple, or even a double
isn't really necessary, I'd look for less. <g>

Quoted message said:

The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a cassette. Freewheels are more
difficult to swap out than cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the
rear axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a better choice for
you. All in all, lots of variables but the key is to get a bike that fit.

Ah, ok, I don't yet know the difference between a freewheel and a cassette.
Hasn't come up in conversation with the bike experts at the 6 bike shops
I've been to so far... Something else to learn... <g>

And being heavier, that's a good thing to know/learn. I'm looking at about
22 miles r/t for work.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

Quoted message said:

Well, so far, my needs aren't yet. <g> I may be riding to work a few days
a week, with some recreational riding on weekends.

Beware.

Biking is extremely addictive.

After a time, you will want to go faster, climb higher hills and go longer.
That is when you will appreciate the range of gearing available on your bike.

Gears are like condoms. You probably don't need them too often. but when you
do, you REALLY need them, and right now!

http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

Quoted message said:

Gears are like condoms. You probably don't need them too often. but when you
do, you REALLY need them, and right now!

Also the fact that the bigger you need, the better off you are.

GABIKE <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gears are like condoms. You probably don't need them too often. but
when you do, you REALLY need them, and right now!

Also the fact that the bigger you need, the better off you are.

Er, no.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:27:03 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

<William Holiday wrote:
<
<> On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:
<>
<> <How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
<> <actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
<> <a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
<> <hills.
<>
<> You sound like you're looking at triple front chainrings. I ride a double, 18
<> gears of which I use about 11. When I ride triples I shift more. You ride a
<> single speed and if it's suitable to the terrain you're doing now, you might not
<> need a triple but that's where the best pricepoints are so just don't shift
<> there should you get one.
<
<It seems like there is an over abundance of triples out there, and all the
<new bike sales shops push them. I'm trying to look at as many as I can,
<and haven't completely ruled out a single, although the hills around here
<make me think that's not going to be a viable option. <g> For just
<getting ready to ride with relatively short hops of 2-6 miles r/t, I can avoid
<most of the hills, but for longer rides, no.

Hills to cyclists are midnight lights to moths. And there's a good reason why
there are so many triples out there, it provides a wide[r] range of usability, a
good general purpose tool, pretty much what you need at this time.

<I do like the KISS principle though, so if a triple, or even a double
<isn't really necessary, I'd look for less. <g>

I share that attitude but there's an aweful lot experience that goes into
understanding what simple is. For a new rider, triple may be the simplest
alternative.

<> The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a cassette. Freewheels are more
<> difficult to swap out than cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the
<> rear axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a better choice for
<> you. All in all, lots of variables but the key is to get a bike that fit.
<
<Ah, ok, I don't yet know the difference between a freewheel and a cassette.
<Hasn't come up in conversation with the bike experts at the 6 bike shops
<I've been to so far... Something else to learn... <g>

This site will help you learn more, this link is about freewheels:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#freewheel
Fw v Cas isn't a major issue, it's just one of lots of little things that you
run into if you stick with cycling.

<And being heavier, that's a good thing to know/learn. I'm looking at about
<22 miles r/t for work.

Sounds great, good luck with it!

Quoted message said:

I may be riding to work a few days
a week, with some recreational riding on weekends. Unfortunately, it's
almost all downhill to work, so the ride back home after work will be
a pretty good workout, as it's about 600-700 ft difference in elevation
in 12 miles.

No, that's not unfortunate at all. That's good!

My commute is similar - downhill in, uphill home. That means I get to
take it easy in the morning and arrive with relatively little
perspiration. On the way home, I work harder, but I'm not worried about
being sweaty at home.

However, your average slope is pretty low. Unless you've got some steep
pitches in there, it sounds like you can do fine without very low gears.

--
-------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

On 4/10/04 12:04 AM, in article [email hidden],

Quoted post said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start
riding, but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices.
My one and only bike from the 60's was a single
speed Schwinn, and right now I'm riding
a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked
to bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

--

-TTFN

-Steven

FWIW, I'm a relative newbie myself (less than a year on the bike) and I
chose an 8-speed triple for my first ride. I'm very glad I did, because the
lowest chainring allowed me to climb even pretty steep hills without feeling
like I'll never be in shape enough to climb a hill and keep the bike moving
at a nice pace while "learning" how to ride.

Of course, now I mainly use the second ring but I'm sure happy knowing the
lower gears are there if the hill that requires it comes along!

My understanding (and the group can correct me if I'm wrong here) is that
doubles are more popular with experienced riders because a) they rarely need
the lower gears since they have good strength in their legs and b) they
would like to shed as much weight as possible from the bike. Even now, that
I'm considering a new bike I think I might go for another triple since both
A and B above really don't apply to me at this point and the lower cost
bikes usually come with them anyway.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

I've been looking to perhaps get a bike and start
riding, but am a bit overwhelmed by the choices.
My one and only bike from the 60's was a single
speed Schwinn, and right now I'm riding
a single speed AMF Road master I inherited
from my father.

My first question, after having looked and talked
to bikers and bike shops for the last three weeks:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

It really depends a lot on how you ride. If you don't ride fast, you
won't use the top ones. But on my ride today (see the post titled "Tail
winds are a wonderful thing...", I used all of them within just a few
miles. On a short downhill with the wind, I used my top gear (52-tooth
front, 11-tooth rear) when I hit about 30 mph. A few miles later, I was
climbing a steep hill using my lowest gear (and wishing I had an even
lower one), which was a 30-tooth front, and a 23-tooth rear.

If you have a mountain bike, the lowest gears are usually so low that
you will never use them on the road, but might if you get off onto a
steep trail. On a road bike, the highest gears aren't used a lot, but
are some if you like to go fast down hills.

HTH!

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

William Holiday said:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:04:55 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

<How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
<actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
<a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
<hills.

You sound like you're looking at triple front chainrings. I ride a double, 18
gears of which I use about 11. When I ride triples I shift more. You ride a
single speed and if it's suitable to the terrain you're doing now, you might not
need a triple but that's where the best pricepoints are so just don't shift
there should you get one.

It seems like there is an over abundance of triples out there, and all the
new bike sales shops push them. I'm trying to look at as many as I can,
and haven't completely ruled out a single, although the hills around here
make me think that's not going to be a viable option. <g> For just
getting ready to ride with relatively short hops of 2-6 miles r/t, I can avoid
most of the hills, but for longer rides, no.

I do like the KISS principle though, so if a triple, or even a double
isn't really necessary, I'd look for less. <g>

Quoted message said:

The 21 you're talking may be a freewheel and not a cassette. Freewheels are more
difficult to swap out than cassettes. Freewheels also place more stress on the
rear axle, so if you're heavy[er], the casette system makes a better choice for
you. All in all, lots of variables but the key is to get a bike that fit.

Ah, ok, I don't yet know the difference between a freewheel and a cassette.
Hasn't come up in conversation with the bike experts at the 6 bike shops
I've been to so far... Something else to learn... <g>

They wouldn't mention it: *ALL* new bikes use cassettes rather than
freewheels. The only time you'd get a freewheel would be if you bought
used. I guess there may be a really cheap *Mart bike out there with a
freewheel, but you won't find one at a bike shop

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Craig Holl said:

Quoted message said:

How many of those mulit-speed gears do you riders
actually regularly use? 21 to 28 speeds seems like
a lot for riding around on the city streets, even with
hills.

I bought a 3-chainring, 8-sprocket cassette (for 24 gears) Trek comfort bike two
years ago. I ride almost exclusively in the 2nd range, mainly using sprockets
2-8. Only on steep uphills will I go into 1st range, and only on steep or long
downhills will I go into 3rd range. So maybe once a ride I'll move out of 2nd
range, on average.

So most of my gear combinations go unused. But I sure do use all the rear
sprockets, so I can keep my exertion level about the same throughout the ride. I
wouldn't want to go to a cassette with less than seven sprockets, that's for sure.
To me, for recreational riding, the most important thing is to have a wide range
of ratios available, not the number of ratios available.

Ah, then I wonder, can you pick the gears you want, or are they sold
as sets? Like I mentioned, I haven't gotten down to specifics yet, there
is so much to learn these days... <g>

The range you get depends on the bike you buy. Touring bikes (Fuji
Touring, Trek 520, etc) will have wider ranges than racing bikes, the
they can all be changed later on with very little effort, and only small
cost. I have a Fuji Touring, and it came with an 11-32 9-speed
cassette, but I found that I hardly ever used the 28 or the 32-tooth
cogs, so for $35 I bought an Ultegra 11-23 cassette to give me closer
gears for the riding I do most of the time. If I decide to do some
loaded touring, or go riding in the mountains, I'll just slap the 11-32
back on, and I'll be all set.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:05:12 GMT, Jeff Smith <[email hidden]>
wrote:

<My understanding (and the group can correct me if I'm wrong here) is that
<doubles are more popular with experienced riders because a) they rarely need
<the lower gears since they have good strength in their legs and b) they
<would like to shed as much weight as possible from the bike. Even now, that
<I'm considering a new bike I think I might go for another triple since both
<A and B above really don't apply to me at this point and the lower cost
<bikes usually come with them anyway.

The club folk with whom I ride are almost exclusively on doubles. I'm not
talking racers, just recreational and event riders. I think it's because of the
peer thing, everybody else seems to have one and the granny has a stigma to an
extent. I guess you could say that even the ladies have a bit of machismo.

I started on a 12s and whenever I ride a triple I have too much choice and shift
too much, so I continue to ride double as a simpler alternative.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 17:04:18 -0400, David Kerber

ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

The range you get depends on the bike you buy. Touring bikes (Fuji
Touring, Trek 520, etc) will have wider ranges than racing bikes, the
they can all be changed later on with very little effort, and only small
cost. I have a Fuji Touring, and it came with an 11-32 9-speed
cassette, but I found that I hardly ever used the 28 or the 32-tooth
cogs, so for $35 I bought an Ultegra 11-23 cassette to give me closer
gears for the riding I do most of the time.

I'm curious- did you change the derailleur when you went to the
tighter cassette?

The reason I ask is because I have a bike with an 11-32, XT rear
derailleur. I am thinking of putting a 12-25 on. But when I did this
on a bike with a Deore rear derailleur, the shifting became pretty
bad- couldn't get the pulleys close enough, so I lost some crispness.
Putting a 105 on got the crispness back.

Thanks...