Michael Moore

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

ince it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both blue and red
America, even at theaters close to military bases. Last Saturday, Dale
Earnhardt Jr. took his Nascar crew to see it. The film's appeal to
working-class Americans, who are the true victims of George Bush's policies,
should give pause to its critics, especially the nervous liberals rushing to
disassociate themselves from Michael Moore.

There has been much tut-tutting by pundits who complain that the movie,
though it has yet to be caught in any major factual errors, uses association
and innuendo to create false impressions. Many of these same pundits
consider it bad form to make a big fuss about the Bush administration's use
of association and innuendo to link the Iraq war to 9/11. Why hold a
self-proclaimed polemicist to a higher standard than you hold the president
of the United States?

And for all its flaws, "Fahrenheit 9/11" performs an essential service. It
would be a better movie if it didn't promote a few unproven conspiracy
theories, but those theories aren't the reason why millions of people who
aren't die-hard Bush-haters are flocking to see it. These people see the
film to learn true stories they should have heard elsewhere, but didn't. Mr.
Moore may not be considered respectable, but his film is a hit because the
respectable media haven't been doing their job.

For example, audiences are shocked by the now-famous seven minutes, when
George Bush knew the nation was under attack but continued reading "My Pet
Goat" with a group of children. Nobody had told them that the tales of Mr.
Bush's decisiveness and bravery on that day were pure fiction.

Or consider the Bush family's ties to the Saudis. The film suggests that Mr.
Bush and his good friend Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the ambassador known to
the family as Bandar Bush, have tried to cover up the extent of Saudi
involvement in terrorism. This may or may not be true. But what shocks
people, I think, is the fact that nobody told them about this side of Mr.
Bush's life.

Mr. Bush's carefully constructed persona is that of an all-American regular
guy - not like his suspiciously cosmopolitan opponent, with his patrician
air. The news media have cheerfully gone along with the pretense. How many
stories have you seen contrasting John Kerry's upper-crusty vacation on
Nantucket with Mr. Bush's down-home time at the ranch?

But the reality, revealed by Mr. Moore, is that Mr. Bush has always lived in
a bubble of privilege. And his family, far from consisting of regular folks
with deep roots in the heartland, is deeply enmeshed, financially and
personally, with foreign elites - with the Saudis in particular.

Mr. Moore's greatest strength is a real empathy with working-class Americans
that most journalists lack. Having stripped away Mr. Bush's common-man mask,
he uses his film to make the case, in a way statistics never could, that Mr.
Bush's policies favor a narrow elite at the expense of less fortunate
Americans - sometimes, indeed, at the cost of their lives.

In a nation where the affluent rarely serve in the military, Mr. Moore
follows Marine recruiters as they trawl the malls of depressed communities,
where enlistment is the only way for young men and women to escape poverty.
He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on Iraq, nibbling on
canapés and exulting over the profit opportunities, then shows the terrible
price paid by the soldiers creating those opportunities.

The movie's moral core is a harrowing portrait of a grieving mother who
encouraged her children to join the military because it was the only way
they could pay for their education, and who lost her son in a war whose
justification she no longer understands.

Viewers may come away from Mr. Moore's movie believing some things that
probably aren't true. For example, the film talks a lot about Unocal's plans
for a pipeline across Afghanistan, which I doubt had much impact on the
course of the Afghan war. Someday, when the crisis of American democracy is
over, I'll probably find myself berating Mr. Moore, who supported Ralph
Nader in 2000, for his simplistic antiglobalization views.

But not now. "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a tendentious, flawed movie, but it tells
essential truths about leaders who exploited a national tragedy for
political gain, and the ordinary Americans who paid the price.

If it wasn't for the investigative reports of David Sween, who has
been one step ahead of the effort to frame an innocent man, Scott
Peterson would have been dead and buried by now, just like Richard
Albert Ricci was.

The fact that David Sween is responsible for saving Scott Peterson
became graphically plain recently, when the disgraced prosecution
tried to save the reputation of the incompetent, Detective Allen
Brocchini.

The detective had gotten a call about how Scott dumped Laci in the
ocean on April 19, 2003, a day after Scott Peterson was arrested, but
Detective Allen Brocchini did not follow up because, in his words,

"I just couldn't corroborate it, and I just didn't put a lot of stock
in it."

In retrospect, such a call is consistent with the persistent effort to
frame Scott Peterson, and investigator, David Sween, had virually made
that crystal clear when he wrote the following report:

http://www.geocities.com/botenth/scott.htm

So you see, if David Sween did not methodically and systematically
expose every absurd plot to frame Scott Peterson, the prosecution
might have fraudulently "cemented" the case against Scott early on,
and he may have died in prison, just like Richard Albert Ricci did.

The April 19 telephone call tip that Brochini dismissed is the very
same one that the prosecution has currently embraced, and that is a
clear indication of the fact that earlier efforts to frame Scott
Peterson were discarded because David Sween exposed every fraudulent
effort to "cement" the case against Scott Peterson.

If Scott has a guardian angel looking over his shoulder, his name is
David Sween, and I seriously believe that in the absence of his
brilliant reporting, Scott Peterson would be dead.
_____________________________
this was posted on the nsnews message board and it is worth repeating
here !

http://www.geocities.com/botenth/scott.htm

Off topic! Take it outside please. Gosh, the Tour begins tomorrow and
THIS is all you care about?????

Madelin McKinnon said:

If it wasn't for the investigative reports of David Sween, who has
been one step ahead of the effort to frame an innocent man, Scott
Peterson would have been dead and buried by now, just like Richard
Albert Ricci was.

The fact that David Sween is responsible for saving Scott Peterson
became graphically plain recently, when the disgraced prosecution
tried to save the reputation of the incompetent, Detective Allen
Brocchini.

The detective had gotten a call about how Scott dumped Laci in the
ocean on April 19, 2003, a day after Scott Peterson was arrested, but
Detective Allen Brocchini did not follow up because, in his words,

"I just couldn't corroborate it, and I just didn't put a lot of stock
in it."

In retrospect, such a call is consistent with the persistent effort to
frame Scott Peterson, and investigator, David Sween, had virually made
that crystal clear when he wrote the following report:

http://www.geocities.com/botenth/scott.htm

So you see, if David Sween did not methodically and systematically
expose every absurd plot to frame Scott Peterson, the prosecution
might have fraudulently "cemented" the case against Scott early on,
and he may have died in prison, just like Richard Albert Ricci did.

The April 19 telephone call tip that Brochini dismissed is the very
same one that the prosecution has currently embraced, and that is a
clear indication of the fact that earlier efforts to frame Scott
Peterson were discarded because David Sween exposed every fraudulent
effort to "cement" the case against Scott Peterson.

If Scott has a guardian angel looking over his shoulder, his name is
David Sween, and I seriously believe that in the absence of his
brilliant reporting, Scott Peterson would be dead.
_____________________________
this was posted on the nsnews message board and it is worth repeating
here !

http://www.geocities.com/botenth/scott.htm

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

ince it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both blue and red
America, even at theaters close to military bases. Last Saturday, Dale
Earnhardt Jr. took his Nascar crew to see it. The film's appeal to
working-class Americans, who are the true victims of George Bush's policies,
should give pause to its critics, especially the nervous liberals rushing to
disassociate themselves from Michael Moore.

<rest of review snipped>

Dumbass -

I'd say that Mr. Krugman is pretty much spot on with what he said,
both in its praise and criticism.

He left out a little more though. Moore's movie, IMO, is a seminal
event in film history. Someone has finally come out with a cinematic
counterpoint to reality TV, with a very significant difference: the
characters in reality TV are real, but the situations they are filmed
in are contrived while in "Fahrenheit 9/11", the people are real, and
the film's subject is the most horrifyingly dramatic event anyone can
ever experience (war).

With regards to Mr. Chung's query from a few days ago: ya, I finally
saw it. And you?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

<snip inane drivel>

I see your conspiracy theories are not limited to Lance only... Consider
this an offering of help and not a flame.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool
than to open it and remove all doubt."

-Mark Twain

-p

"Pippen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:hWeFc.14005$Oq2.3897@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

<snip inane drivel>

I see your conspiracy theories are not limited to Lance only... Consider
this an offering of help and not a flame.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a

fool

Quoted message said:

than to open it and remove all doubt."

-Mark Twain

-p

What theories are those as to Armstrong and Moore?

On 7/2/04 3:18 AM, in article
[email hidden], "B. Lafferty"

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

This contains the key word: "OP-ED COLUMNIST"

On 07/01/2004 11:24 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Steve"

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rush+Limbaugh
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bill+O%27Reilly
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sean+Hannity

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Michael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

ince it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both blue and red
America, even at theaters close to military bases. Last Saturday, Dale
Earnhardt Jr. took his Nascar crew to see it. The film's appeal to
working-class Americans, who are the true victims of George Bush's

policies,

Quoted message said:

should give pause to its critics, especially the nervous liberals rushing

to

Quoted message said:

disassociate themselves from Michael Moore.

There has been much tut-tutting by pundits who complain that the movie,
though it has yet to be caught in any major factual errors, uses

association

Quoted message said:

and innuendo to create false impressions.

I consider it bad form to create films that are propaganda styled as
documentary. MM has created a new niche in films with these "Propa-mentary"
films.

Many of these same pundits

Quoted message said:

consider it bad form to make a big fuss about the Bush administration's

use

Quoted message said:

of association and innuendo to link the Iraq war to 9/11. Why hold a
self-proclaimed polemicist to a higher standard than you hold the

president

Quoted message said:

of the United States?

And for all its flaws, "Fahrenheit 9/11" performs an essential service. It
would be a better movie if it didn't promote a few unproven conspiracy
theories, but those theories aren't the reason why millions of people who
aren't die-hard Bush-haters are flocking to see it. These people see the
film to learn true stories they should have heard elsewhere, but didn't.

Mr.

Which true stories?

Quoted message said:

Moore may not be considered respectable, but his film is a hit because the
respectable media haven't been doing their job.

That is debatable.

Quoted message said:

For example, audiences are shocked by the now-famous seven minutes, when
George Bush knew the nation was under attack but continued reading "My Pet
Goat" with a group of children. Nobody had told them that the tales of Mr.
Bush's decisiveness and bravery on that day were pure fiction.

Wow. Show me any human that knew how to react in less than 7 minutes. That
attack was unprecedented in world history. Terrorists attacking massive
numbers of innocent civilians using the mass transit system as a weapon of
mass destruction (ok, the mass destruciton was more about having a direct
hit in a target rich environment). It was shocking for so many reasons, not
the least of which it was largest scale attack ever on civilians during
peace time

Quoted message said:

Or consider the Bush family's ties to the Saudis. The film suggests that

Mr.

Quoted message said:

Bush and his good friend Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the ambassador known to
the family as Bandar Bush, have tried to cover up the extent of Saudi
involvement in terrorism. This may or may not be true. But what shocks
people, I think, is the fact that nobody told them about this side of Mr.
Bush's life.

Nobody knew that the Bush family was in the oil business for decades?

Quoted message said:

Mr. Bush's carefully constructed persona is that of an all-American

regular

Quoted message said:

guy - not like his suspiciously cosmopolitan opponent, with his patrician
air. The news media have cheerfully gone along with the pretense. How many
stories have you seen contrasting John Kerry's upper-crusty vacation on
Nantucket with Mr. Bush's down-home time at the ranch?

Why would anyone care?

Quoted message said:

But the reality, revealed by Mr. Moore, is that Mr. Bush has always lived

in

Quoted message said:

a bubble of privilege. And his family, far from consisting of regular

folks

Quoted message said:

with deep roots in the heartland, is deeply enmeshed, financially and
personally, with foreign elites - with the Saudis in particular.

OK, maybe people in general did not think through the other memebers of that
group but it has been known for decades where the Bush's made their fortunes
(long before any national elections were won by them).

Quoted message said:

Mr. Moore's greatest strength is a real empathy with working-class

Americans

Quoted message said:

that most journalists lack.

That may be true, but Michael Moore lives a life of luxury that is not in
line with his image. Does that mean the next film producer\director to fill
his shoes should point the camera at Moore himself? No, it just does not
matter. Michael Moore has long been known as a radical liberal that has no
interest in seeing managemant and union members getting along. He wants "the
worker" to win the war not realizing that would kill the golden goose. That
does not mean there are not plenty of abuses by management even today, but
Moore acts like he is living during the dawn of the industrial revolution
rather than a full century later.

Quoted message said:

Having stripped away Mr. Bush's common-man mask,
he uses his film to make the case, in a way statistics never could,

Indeed.

Quoted message said:

that Mr.
Bush's policies favor a narrow elite at the expense of less fortunate
Americans - sometimes, indeed, at the cost of their lives.

That is arguable and is ALWAYS claimed to be the position of the
Republicans. Where is the story then?

Quoted message said:

In a nation where the affluent rarely serve in the military,

In an all volunteer military, why is that a surprise? OK, that was a real
problem during the Vietnam war era but why is that a surprise or a problem
now? Besides, in a capitolist meritocracy with upward mobility available to
most people, there are supposed to be benefits of wealth. Why else would
anyone even work if there were not?

Quoted message said:

Mr. Moore
follows Marine recruiters as they trawl the malls of depressed

communities,

Quoted message said:

where enlistment is the only way for young men and women to escape

poverty.

Hmm. I do have a problem with the recruting tactics used by the military but
it is not as if these people are targeted to remain poor. It is also true
that Remmy (separate but equal) stood for far too long. While not all
individuals that were harmed have now obtained remedies, the legal frame
work exists to do so. The trend towards treating all humans as equally
worthy of respect and opportunity is well established. It is not clear at
all what else could be done and maybe the only thing remaining to be done is
to continue to prosecute and adjuicate cases where people continue to be
victimized. Having said all that, what else could or should the government
do to make life better for poor people (regardless of the reasons of that
poverty)? Do you concede that (able minded) individuals have some
accountability to break out of poverty?

The real problems that I see in the US are the "hidden" groups that do not
have public sympathy. People that suffer from acute and chronic pain first
have to prove that they will not become criminals *before* getting the best
medical solution. Where is Michael Moore when dozens of people kill
themselves each day from the depression of unrelieved pain while pharmacies
are well stocked with medicines that would offer that relief? Many of these
people are not even aware of just how much can be done with modern pain meds
and protocols. No, most people that know about these highly effective meds
simply think of them as a bad idea because they are abused by people that
should not have them in their posession. If MM is such a simpathetic person,
why is he always harping the radical political agenda? Is his sympathy
really for those people or is it for an ideal he sold himself on so long ago
before he sold out? How many of these films whose main purpose is alleged to
help the working man are used only to make MM yet another member of the
public he hates so much (rich people)? Some film makers use profits to help
the people they are claiming to serve. How much of MM's profits have gone to
any charity?

Quoted message said:

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on Iraq, nibbling on
canapés and exulting over the profit opportunities,

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to replace capitolism?
I was just wondering...No more French food? No more profits? Central
planning? How bad precisely is this whole problem with capitolism anyway?
Why do true Americans allow it to continue (whatever is alleged to be wrong
with either profits or French food?

Quoted message said:

then shows the terrible
price paid by the soldiers creating those opportunities.

The objective of the military is to create business opportunities?

Quoted message said:

The movie's moral core is a harrowing portrait of a grieving mother who
encouraged her children to join the military because it was the only way
they could pay for their education, and who lost her son in a war whose
justification she no longer understands.

Again, it is true that the recruiters not focus enough on the risk these
people take when they sign. Still, it is not really a secret that soldiers
die some times. If the US is so profit oriented and careless about human
life, why does the budget allow the cost of the guided munitions to be so
high? Would it be a lot cheaper to just drop some big ass bombs when we need
to kill and not waste those billions on guidance systems? Another problem is
those damn expensive planes that are so far superior that they rarely ever
get shot down any more. Is it really worth all those billions spent to save
just a few more lives? The pilots are by far the best trained to why is so
much spent on making the US Air Force the ruler of the skies? The US could
save billions and the only cost would be a few more lives lost by people
that already agreed to risk them for their country for pay. For some reason,
this does not sound like the same military that MM is talking about.

Quoted message said:

Viewers may come away from Mr. Moore's movie believing some things that
probably aren't true.

Probably? Is there any chance that won't happen?

For example, the film talks a lot about Unocal's plans

Quoted message said:

for a pipeline across Afghanistan, which I doubt had much impact on the
course of the Afghan war. Someday, when the crisis of American democracy

is

Quoted message said:

over, I'll probably find myself berating Mr. Moore, who supported Ralph
Nader in 2000, for his simplistic antiglobalization views.

Deep down you know that MM is wrong but you think he is harmless or serving
a role to punish those that do not serve your particular wishes.

Quoted message said:

But not now. "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a tendentious, flawed movie, but it

tells

Quoted message said:

essential truths

How can a film tell essential truth by using deception? Are you sure it is
"essential truth" you are after?

about leaders who exploited a national tragedy for

Quoted message said:

political gain, and the ordinary Americans who paid the price.

Attacking Iraq was politically expedient? I think it was a huge political
risk. Bush may have known even then that it may cost him his second term
that every POTUSA wants.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on Iraq, nibbling on
canapés and exulting over the profit opportunities,

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to replace capitolism?

<snip>

Dumbass -

No-bid contracts are not capitalism. Capitalism is characterized by
free-markets and competition. Corruption is defined by cronyism.

Capitalism works because competition breeds efficiency. Cronyism and
corruption are the antithesis of that and a cancer on any society.
Some cultures end up being completely overwhelmed by it (Argentina and
Mexico are a good examples).

As an aside - see the movie - then criticize. There are few things
more half-assed than a movie critic who hasn't actually seen the
movie.

K. Gringioni
believer in capitalism

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 7/2/04 3:18 AM, in article

Quoted message said:

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

This contains the key word: "OP-ED COLUMNIST"

Goddamm, you're stupid as ever.

Every single movie review which has ever been written is someone's
opinion.

BTW, "OP-ED COLUMNIST" is actually two words.

No need to thank me. I am a Good Samaritan, here to help those in
need. You're welcome and have a nice day.

Now let's relate this back to bike racing, shall we?

--

"K. Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 7/2/04 3:18 AM, in article

Quoted message said:

July 2, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Moore's Public Service
By PAUL KRUGMAN

This contains the key word: "OP-ED COLUMNIST"

Goddamm, you're stupid as ever.

Every single movie review which has ever been written is someone's
opinion.

BTW, "OP-ED COLUMNIST" is actually two words.

No need to thank me. I am a Good Samaritan, here to help those in
need. You're welcome and have a nice day.

Bio form the NY Times:

Paul Krugman joined The New York Times in 1999 as a columnist on the Op-Ed
Page and continues as professor of Economics and International Affairs at
Princeton University.

Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974 and his Ph.D.
from MIT in 1977. He has taught at Yale, MIT and Stanford. At MIT he became
the Ford International Professor of Economics.

Mr. Krugman is the author or editor of 20 books and more than 200 papers in
professional journals and edited volumes. His professional reputation rests
largely on work in international trade and finance; he is one of the
founders of the "new trade theory," a major rethinking of the theory of
international trade. In recognition of that work, in 1991 the American
Economic Association awarded him its John Bates Clark medal, a prize given
every two years to "that economist under forty who is adjudged to have made
a significant contribution to economic knowledge." Mr. Krugman's current
academic research is focused on economic and currency crises.

At the same time, Mr. Krugman has written extensively for a broader public
audience. Some of his recent articles on economic issues, originally
published in Foreign Affairs, Harvard Business Review, Scientific American
and other journals, are reprinted in Pop Internationalism and The Accidental
Theorist.

"keydates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now let's relate this back to bike racing, shall we?

He missed out on a Tour start. Wonder if he'll change teams for next year?
CSC? Riis?

Peter

"K. Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on Iraq, nibbling

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

canapés and exulting over the profit opportunities,

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to replace

capitolism?

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Dumbass -

No-bid contracts are not capitalism. Capitalism is characterized by
free-markets and competition. Corruption is defined by cronyism.

Capitalism works because competition breeds efficiency. Cronyism and
corruption are the antithesis of that and a cancer on any society.
Some cultures end up being completely overwhelmed by it (Argentina and
Mexico are a good examples).

So MM proved all that, or is that something you decided before the film? I
assume the latter since I have heard similar comments from you

Quoted message said:

As an aside - see the movie - then criticize. There are few things
more half-assed than a movie critic who hasn't actually seen the
movie.

I can think of several things, like reactionary liberals for one...

There is not much point since I was not critisizing the movie directly. As
entertainment, it is probably pretty good stuff. I have seen clips and they
are amuzing and manipulative. I was critical of MM and his body of work up
to this point and the article by Lafferty that implied the film had
educational value. MM's story-telling is well established. It is based on
manipulating emotions with out of context half-truths. I suppose if I really
cared a lot about debunking this particular film, I would go see it but I
don't want to waste my time on any more of his BS.

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni
believer in capitalism

Thanks for proving it really is "Kurgan" and not a fake of the fake Italian
or whatever your 'nym is supposed to imply.

K. Gringioni said:

With regards to Mr. Chung's query from a few days ago: ya, I finally
saw it. And you?

I anxiously await its release here in the land of freedom and equality.

Robert Chung said:

K. Gringioni said:

With regards to Mr. Chung's query from a few days ago: ya, I finally
saw it. And you?

I anxiously await its release here in the land of freedom and equality.

France?

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to replace

capitolism?

Quoted message said:

I was just wondering...No more French food? No more profits? Central
planning? How bad precisely is this whole problem with capitolism anyway?
Why do true Americans allow it to continue (whatever is alleged to be

wrong

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with either profits or French food?

l

Capital: 2a. Wealth in the form of money or property, used or accumulated in
a business by a person, partnership, or corporation. b. Material wealth used
or available for use in the production of more wealth.

Capitol: 2. The building in Washington, D.C., where the Congress of the
United States meets....

Capitalism: An economic system in which the means of production and
distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is
proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment...

Capitolism: A system of building large edifices with [censored]-shaped domes....

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to replace

capitolism?

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<snip>

Dumbass -

No-bid contracts are not capitalism. Capitalism is characterized by
free-markets and competition. Corruption is defined by cronyism.

Capitalism works because competition breeds efficiency. Cronyism and
corruption are the antithesis of that and a cancer on any society.
Some cultures end up being completely overwhelmed by it (Argentina and
Mexico are a good examples).

So MM proved all that, or is that something you decided before the film? I
assume the latter since I have heard similar comments from you

Dumbass -

The film wasn't about capitalism vs. cronyism.

Duh.

And yes, I think the Bush Admin. is very much about cronyism, years
before seeing the film. How can one objectively not come to that
conclusion?

It is possible. By being a blind ideologue ie. the ideologue who
follows, but at the cost of abandoning the true ideals, in this case,
true fiscal conservatism.

K. Gringioni
believer in free markets