A Letter from Lance

You typed this all out???

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just got this letter from Lance Armstrong, which is a plug for League

of

Quoted message said:

American Bicyclists:

Dear Fellow Cyclis,

When I ride the Tour de France, I benefit from police escorts and

roads

Quoted message said:

closed to automobile traffic. But when I train hundreds of miles a

week

Quoted message said:

at home, I face the same difficulties riding on the road as you do.

Narrow roads and nonexistent shoulders, aggressive and sometimes

hostile

Quoted message said:

motorists, lack of bike access to bridges and transit -- these

problems

Quoted message said:

are enough to frustrate any cyclist.

But like you, I am not willing to give up and throw away my bike.
Rather, I believe that we need to evaluate the problems and work
together to come up with good, practical solutions that improve
conditiions for cyclists and encourage many more people to join us on

bikes.

Quoted message said:

Fortunately, there is an organization dedicated to doing this: the
League of American Bicyclists. Day in and day out, the League is
working through advocacy and education to build a truly

bicycle-friendly

Quoted message said:

America

Over 40,000 individual cyclists and 600 organizations have already
joined the League to help support its work for cyclists. I urge you

to

Quoted message said:

do the same.

I am proud to be a member of the League of American Bicyclists. I

look

Quoted message said:

at it as an investment in our future. After all, the more that people
are biking, the more influence cyclists will have on improving
conditions, and the more likely that there will be other American Tour
de France champions.

Please read the enclosed letter from the League's Executive Director
about the great member benefits and join the League today!

Thank you for supporting cycling.

Sincerly,
Lance Armstrong

P.S. Join with me as a member of the League of American Bicyclists and
help build a bicycle-friendly America. Thanks!

[letter attached]

Address is:
League of American Bicyclists
1612 K Street, NW, Suite 800
Washinton, DC 20006-2850

Now this outfit, in Washington DC, looks plainly like a lobbying

group,

Quoted message said:

but I haven't heard their name anywhere. I certainly agree with the
content of the letter, and would consider putting my cash into an
organization that will help do something about the crappy roads and
such, but how much can LoAB do to influence the local civil engineers
who are as responsible for those who control the purse strings?

Your thoughts are welcome.

"Jiyang Chen" wrote...

Quoted message said:

You typed this all out???

I hope he scanned it. Otherwise he's due some good ol' American compassion.

jf

"Jim Flom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Asxwc.22130$DV4.3576@clgrps13...

Quoted message said:

"Jiyang Chen" wrote...

Quoted message said:

You typed this all out???

I hope he scanned it. Otherwise he's due some good ol' American

compassion.

Quoted message said:

jf

It's doubtful if he scanned it because OCR is not very good. I don't even
believe the latest version of OmniPage could produce excellent results
unless the text was on typed printer paper and used basic default, like
Times or Ariel. Hand written text would not scan well to OCR, if at all. If
he scanned it as a graphic then I would like to know how he converted it to
text. I don't know of a way of doing it. If it was an email, then of course
text but otherwise if snail mail letter then I think he typed it.

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just got this letter from Lance Armstrong, which is a plug for League of
American Bicyclists:

Dear Fellow Cyclis,

When I ride the Tour de France, I benefit from police escorts and roads
closed to automobile traffic. But when I train hundreds of miles a week
at home, I face the same difficulties riding on the road as you do.

Narrow roads and nonexistent shoulders, aggressive and sometimes hostile
motorists, lack of bike access to bridges and transit -- these problems
are enough to frustrate any cyclist.

But like you, I am not willing to give up and throw away my bike.
Rather, I believe that we need to evaluate the problems and work
together to come up with good, practical solutions that improve
conditiions for cyclists and encourage many more people to join us on

bikes.

Quoted message said:

Fortunately, there is an organization dedicated to doing this: the
League of American Bicyclists. Day in and day out, the League is
working through advocacy and education to build a truly bicycle-friendly
America

Over 40,000 individual cyclists and 600 organizations have already
joined the League to help support its work for cyclists. I urge you to
do the same.

I am proud to be a member of the League of American Bicyclists. I look
at it as an investment in our future. After all, the more that people
are biking, the more influence cyclists will have on improving
conditions, and the more likely that there will be other American Tour
de France champions.

Please read the enclosed letter from the League's Executive Director
about the great member benefits and join the League today!

Thank you for supporting cycling.

Sincerly,
Lance Armstrong

P.S. Join with me as a member of the League of American Bicyclists and
help build a bicycle-friendly America. Thanks!

[letter attached]

Address is:
League of American Bicyclists
1612 K Street, NW, Suite 800
Washinton, DC 20006-2850

Now this outfit, in Washington DC, looks plainly like a lobbying group,
but I haven't heard their name anywhere. I certainly agree with the
content of the letter, and would consider putting my cash into an
organization that will help do something about the crappy roads and
such, but how much can LoAB do to influence the local civil engineers
who are as responsible for those who control the purse strings?

Your thoughts are welcome.

I was watching frontline or something like that a while back and I see
millions of Chinese have given up their bikes in favor of cars. Part of the
oil shortage is due to China demand for fuel. I don't think the Chinese are
going back to bikes and I don't think Americans are going to give up their
SUV's in favor of bikes either but it's a good gesture. I saw another piece
on ABC one time about how the Netherlands have integrated bikes into society
quite well. ED knows about that.

On 05 Jun 2004 22:02:22 EDT, Richard Adams <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just got this letter from Lance Armstrong, which is a plug for League of
American Bicyclists:

Dear Fellow Cyclis,

When I ride the Tour de France, I benefit from police escorts and roads
closed to automobile traffic. But when I train hundreds of miles a week
at home, I face the same difficulties riding on the road as you do.

Narrow roads and nonexistent shoulders, aggressive and sometimes hostile
motorists, lack of bike access to bridges and transit -- these problems
are enough to frustrate any cyclist.

But like you, I am not willing to give up and throw away my bike.
Rather, I believe that we need to evaluate the problems and work
together to come up with good, practical solutions that improve
conditiions for cyclists and encourage many more people to join us on bikes.

Fortunately, there is an organization dedicated to doing this: the
League of American Bicyclists. Day in and day out, the League is
working through advocacy and education to build a truly bicycle-friendly
America

Over 40,000 individual cyclists and 600 organizations have already
joined the League to help support its work for cyclists. I urge you to
do the same.

I am proud to be a member of the League of American Bicyclists. I look
at it as an investment in our future. After all, the more that people
are biking, the more influence cyclists will have on improving
conditions, and the more likely that there will be other American Tour
de France champions.

This organization has been around since before there were automobiles.
It used to be called "The League of American Wheelmen" before we all
became politically correct. They are a good group.

Somehow i don't see Armstrong riding all alone like the rest of us.
Iam still glad he supports such a thing.

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

League of American Bicyclists
1612 K Street, NW, Suite 800
Washinton, DC 20006-2850

Now this outfit, in Washington DC, looks plainly like a lobbying group,
but I haven't heard their name anywhere.

Where have you been?

League of American Wheelmen changed their name to the League of American
Bicyclists some time ago. I'll let somebody else fill in the details of the
history of the LAW, but they've been around (I believe) for over one hundred
years.

Andy Coggan

Evan Evans said:

Somehow i don't see Armstrong riding all alone like the rest of us.
Iam still glad he supports such a thing.

Good chance he's got someone on a scooter with him, but still, the only
way he's going to get miles in is the same way the rest of us do, on our
roads.

[email hidden] (Evan Evans) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Somehow i don't see Armstrong riding all alone like the rest of us.
Iam still glad he supports such a thing.

Rides alone, with a shotgun loaded ford pick-em up truck riding tailgunner.

Sierraman said:

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just got this letter from Lance Armstrong, which is a plug for League of
American Bicyclists:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

League of American Bicyclists
1612 K Street, NW, Suite 800
Washinton, DC 20006-2850

Now this outfit, in Washington DC, looks plainly like a lobbying group,
but I haven't heard their name anywhere. I certainly agree with the
content of the letter, and would consider putting my cash into an
organization that will help do something about the crappy roads and
such, but how much can LoAB do to influence the local civil engineers
who are as responsible for those who control the purse strings?

Your thoughts are welcome.

I was watching frontline or something like that a while back and I see
millions of Chinese have given up their bikes in favor of cars. Part of the
oil shortage is due to China demand for fuel. I don't think the Chinese are
going back to bikes and I don't think Americans are going to give up their
SUV's in favor of bikes either but it's a good gesture. I saw another piece
on ABC one time about how the Netherlands have integrated bikes into society
quite well. ED knows about that.

I did read about the banning of bicycles in the 'downtown' part of
Shanghai, then more recently about the banning of bicycles altogether in
Shanghai -- in the name of progress. Seems the city leaders feel
motorists shouldn't have to put up with a million bicycles when they
want to head downtown to Starbucks.

Yes the chinese are taking to cars like ducks to water and this should
help exhaust world oil reserves much faster than americans could have*.
It'll probably bring back the train and bicycle as primary modes in my
lifetime. Yay!

* The last estimates I read on expected life of petroleum reserves at
current rates of consumption had Saudi Arabia at 40 years, all others
exhausted before then.

Richard Adams said:

Evan Evans said:

Somehow i don't see Armstrong riding all alone like the rest of us.
Iam still glad he supports such a thing.

Good chance he's got someone on a scooter with him, but still, the only
way he's going to get miles in is the same way the rest of us do, on
our roads.

I'd imagine he has a van or car riding with him much of the time. And
um, he trains in France and from what I know [had] lived there with his
family near full time. It's not like he's training for the TDF in Rocky
Texas. Still agreed, it's nice to see him supporting this cause.

--

Quoted message said:

From: Richard Adams [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Yes the chinese are taking to cars like ducks to water and this should
help exhaust world oil reserves much faster than americans could have*.
It'll probably bring back the train and bicycle as primary modes in my
lifetime. Yay!

* The last estimates I read on expected life of petroleum reserves at
current rates of consumption had Saudi Arabia at 40 years, all others
exhausted before then.

It's not just the Americans and Chinese.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3765851.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3674351.stm
http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/031202104619.giteakoi
Bill C

Jim Flom said:

"Jiyang Chen" wrote...

Quoted message said:

You typed this all out???

I hope he scanned it. Otherwise he's due some good ol' American compassion.

Should we send in the Marines to invade him, or just fly over and bomb
him? One way or another, we've got to free him from the tyranny of sore
fingers.

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jim Flom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Asxwc.22130$DV4.3576@clgrps13...

Quoted message said:

"Jiyang Chen" wrote...

Quoted message said:

You typed this all out???

I hope he scanned it. Otherwise he's due some good ol' American

compassion.

Quoted message said:

jf

It's doubtful if he scanned it because OCR is not very good.

What are you talking about? Maybe *your* OCR is not "any good" but most OCR
applications from the past several years can scan accurately while requiring
only a few corrections per page and it is not uncommon at all to get 100%
accuracy, even from multiple columns and images placed in the source page.

I don't even

Quoted message said:

believe the latest version of OmniPage could produce excellent results
unless the text was on typed printer paper and used basic default, like
Times or Ariel.

Obviously you have not tried it.

Hand written text would not scan well to OCR, if at all.

That is the biggest challenge but is still possible with some packages being
developed for the latest "tablet PC".

Quoted message said:

If
he scanned it as a graphic then I would like to know how he converted it

to

Quoted message said:

text. I don't know of a way of doing it.

It is called "OCR". An optical character recognition package always starts
with an image that is analysed so it does not matter if you first scan as an
image and then run OCR on it or simply let the automated scripts scan and
convert it.

Quoted message said:

If it was an email, then of course
text but otherwise if snail mail letter then I think he typed it.

Thanks for nothing but misleading statements.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jim Flom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Asxwc.22130$DV4.3576@clgrps13...

Quoted message said:

"Jiyang Chen" wrote...
> You typed this all out???

I hope he scanned it. Otherwise he's due some good ol' American

compassion.

Quoted message said:

jf

It's doubtful if he scanned it because OCR is not very good.

What are you talking about? Maybe *your* OCR is not "any good" but most

OCR

Quoted message said:

applications from the past several years can scan accurately while

requiring

Quoted message said:

only a few corrections per page and it is not uncommon at all to get 100%
accuracy, even from multiple columns and images placed in the source page.

You should know that OCR is mediocre at best. It does (not) always produce
the best results. If your text is big enough and clear enough without useing
wild fonts on your scan page then yes, results can be good, but in my
experience not always perfect. Corrections are usually in order.

Quoted message said:

I don't even

Quoted message said:

believe the latest version of OmniPage could produce excellent results
unless the text was on typed printer paper and used basic default, like
Times or Ariel.

Obviously you have not tried it.

I used it probably before you even thought about it way back in it's
infancy.

Quoted message said:

Hand written text would not scan well to OCR, if at all.

That is the biggest challenge but is still possible with some packages

being

Quoted message said:

developed for the latest "tablet PC".

My point is apps like OmniPage are only good with reasonable text that can
be converted by OCR like typed text, any wild fonts, cursive handwriting,
even print handwriting and the like have poor results. I have used Omnipage
over the years and I have tested their claims many times as they boasted
better OCR with each new version. While I don't mind correcting a few
characters, I wouldn't say it's perfect even on the clear text scan. The
results can be good but not always perfect. The point again is it's limits
are based on size, clarity and the font type of the scanned text. OCR has a
ways to go.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If
he scanned it as a graphic then I would like to know how he converted it

to

Quoted message said:

text. I don't know of a way of doing it.

It is called "OCR". An optical character recognition package always starts
with an image that is analysed so it does not matter if you first scan as

an

Quoted message said:

image and then run OCR on it or simply let the automated scripts scan and
convert it.

Da... yeah, but that's not what I am talking about. I was talking about a
way to convert the text from a graphic that is on your PC or MAC without
using a scanner. Software that can do the conversion without Hardware. I
don't believe I know of any. I haven't searched for a long time to see what
developers have come up with but I'd be interested in any progress in this
area.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it was an email, then of course
text but otherwise if snail mail letter then I think he typed it.

Thanks for nothing but misleading statements.

Thanks for not knowing what you are talking about.

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

BTW, I tried some software a few years back that converted the text from a
graphic without a scanner. The results were laughable.

I agree with the posters who have said that LAB is a good group. I have worked
side-by-side with their lobbyists on transportation legislation and, while they
will never be as influential as the powerful "roads are for cars and trucks"
highway lobby, their voice helps a lot, and they have been particularly good at
developing constructive relationships with Influential members of Congress such
as Jim Oberstar (D-MN), ranking Democrat on the House Transportation and
Infrastructure Committee. They also organized the "Bikes Belong" coalition to
bring bike-industry members into the fold.

See http://bikesbelong.org/site/page.cfm?PageID=66 and
http://www.bikeleague.org/index.cfm for more details.

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jim Flom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Asxwc.22130$DV4.3576@clgrps13...
> "Jiyang Chen" wrote...
> > You typed this all out???
>
> I hope he scanned it. Otherwise he's due some good ol' American
compassion.
>
> jf

It's doubtful if he scanned it because OCR is not very good.

What are you talking about? Maybe *your* OCR is not "any good" but most

OCR

Quoted message said:

applications from the past several years can scan accurately while

requiring

Quoted message said:

only a few corrections per page and it is not uncommon at all to get

100%

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

accuracy, even from multiple columns and images placed in the source

page.

Quoted message said:

You should know that OCR is mediocre at best.

Repeating yourself still does not make it so.

It does (not) always produce

Quoted message said:

the best results. If your text is big enough and clear enough without

useing

Quoted message said:

wild fonts on your scan page then yes, results can be good, but in my
experience not always perfect. Corrections are usually in order.

Quoted message said:

I don't even

Quoted message said:

believe the latest version of OmniPage could produce excellent results
unless the text was on typed printer paper and used basic default,

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Times or Ariel.

Obviously you have not tried it.

I used it probably before you even thought about it way back in it's
infancy.

So you admit your experience is so far in the past as to be irrelevant and
you stubbornly post 3 misleading articles anyway?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hand written text would not scan well to OCR, if at all.

That is the biggest challenge but is still possible with some packages

being

Quoted message said:

developed for the latest "tablet PC".

My point is apps like OmniPage are only good with reasonable text that can
be converted by OCR like typed text, any wild fonts, cursive handwriting,
even print handwriting and the like have poor results.

So what? Any font at all can be changed to an optimized font. The only thing
that would be slightly difficult would be to run OCR on a funky styled and
laid out print job and editing it without leaving that layout style. Big
deal. Most corespondence (letters) fall in the category of 10+ points arial
(sans serif) or times (serif) fonts are are very easily scanned with no
corrections required. That has been the state of OCR for several years now.

I have used Omnipage

Quoted message said:

over the years and I have tested their claims many times as they boasted
better OCR with each new version. While I don't mind correcting a few
characters, I wouldn't say it's perfect even on the clear text scan. The
results can be good but not always perfect. The point again is it's limits
are based on size, clarity and the font type of the scanned text. OCR has

a

Quoted message said:

ways to go.

Please indicate WHICH version. It started to get very accurate around
version 9 or so and is now up to version 14. I use 10.5 and I have no reason
to consider an upgrade at this point.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If
he scanned it as a graphic then I would like to know how he converted

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

text. I don't know of a way of doing it.

It is called "OCR". An optical character recognition package always

starts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with an image that is analysed so it does not matter if you first scan

as

Quoted message said:

an

Quoted message said:

image and then run OCR on it or simply let the automated scripts scan

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

convert it.

Da... yeah, but that's not what I am talking about. I was talking about a
way to convert the text from a graphic that is on your PC or MAC without
using a scanner.

Da...yeah, it is the same thing.

Software that can do the conversion without Hardware. I

Quoted message said:

don't believe I know of any.

No surprises about your lack of knowledge. Believe it or not, most high end
graphics suites have an OCR engine. In addition, every single OCR
application I have used has also had the capability of running OCR on an
existing graphics file. IOW, no need to have it directly from the scanner.
It may be that some users assume the scanner is required because the largest
button on the software controls will fire up the default scanner.

I haven't searched for a long time to see what

Quoted message said:

developers have come up with but I'd be interested in any progress in this
area.

That is very obvious.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it was an email, then of course
text but otherwise if snail mail letter then I think he typed it.

Thanks for nothing but misleading statements.

Thanks for not knowing what you are talking about.

You should go to your water closet and say that in your mirror. I tried to
help you, but sticking to your original statement (no matter how wrong) is
much more important to you than conceding or learning. I gave you enough
information with sufficient references to validate everything I said. You
can download trial packages from any of the big OCR software vendors
including Omnipage. I guess your hope is simply that others won't check the
facts and you won't look stupid? Don't count on it.

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

BTW, I tried some software a few years back that converted the text from a
graphic without a scanner.

You said a few minutes ago that:

"Software that can do the conversion without Hardware. I
don't believe I know of any. I haven't searched for a long time to see what
developers have come up with but I'd be interested in any progress in this
area."

Quoted message said:

The results were laughable.

No doubt. Check the nut behind the wheel.