Drug Testing

Tom Kunich <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

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So there are good reasons that drugs don't appear to have been given

enough

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attention.

Perhaps it is better to make 'sporting fraud' illegal in all countries and
let the police handle it. They might provide the needed evidence for free.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

Tom Kunich <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So there are good reasons that drugs don't appear to have been given

enough

Quoted message said:

attention.

Perhaps it is better to make 'sporting fraud' illegal in all countries and
let the police handle it. They might provide the needed evidence for free.

I think Bush, along with Clinton have resisted this, by listening too
much to the players unions and the sports organizations, i.e. let them
police themselves. MLB has made a laughingstock of this arrangement.
Maybe once the investigations show how widespread it is congress will
finally get moving on it ... and pass some useless legislation, heavily
influenced by lobbyists, which won't be enforced anyway. That'll show 'em!

The drug tests run by WADA/USADA/etc do not cost that much since it is
really not a total screening.

The false positive rate is not that high. See the literature.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I was talking to an old friend of mine yesterday. He has a PhD in

chemistry

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specializing in separation sciences and has been the manager of several
commerical laboratories that perform blood and urine analysis.

I asked him what was going on with the drug testing business and he sure
clued me in - A total drug screening, done on a large scale would cost
between $5,000 and $7,500 PER INDIVIDUAL. In a Pro race where they test

the

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first three and perhaps three to five randoms that would mean some $50,000
in drug testing costs. Moreover, some of those tests are known to have

high

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false positives rates so if you get a positive you have to test it with

one

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or two other methods to varify it. And in other cases, if you get a

positive

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on the 'cheap' test it doesn't give good "quantity" reports so you have to
do yet another test to get a quantitative analysis that you can rely on.

So there is the expense of testing as one factor.

He then went on to say that although it was expensive and events such as

the

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Olympics can run into millions of dollars in drug testing, that the real
problem was political.

In most sports, he said, a positive result means that you are completely
washed up as an athlete. That means that even if you catch an athlete
red-handed doped to the gills, many of them will sue anyway in order to
maintain their franchise in sports. Defending against these law suits runs
into the real money.

And there is always the chance of a false positive destroying the

reputation

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and career of an honest and innocent athlete.

What all this adds up to is that finding the drugs is not hard. The really
effective drugs are all scheduled drugs and when analogs are discovered

they

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are scheduled as soon as possible. The FDA tries to remain on top of it

and

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my friend tells me that most of the illegal stuff is reported to them by
coaches very soon after it appears. The problem isn't in detecting the new
drugs but in proclaiming them as doping until the various organizations
ammend their regulations.

So there are good reasons that drugs don't appear to have been given

enough

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attention.

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

Tom Kunich <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So there are good reasons that drugs don't appear to have been given

enough

Quoted message said:

attention.

Perhaps it is better to make 'sporting fraud' illegal in all countries

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let the police handle it. They might provide the needed evidence for

free.

Quoted message said:

I think Bush, along with Clinton have resisted this, by listening too
much to the players unions and the sports organizations, i.e. let them
police themselves. MLB has made a laughingstock of this arrangement.
Maybe once the investigations show how widespread it is congress will
finally get moving on it ... and pass some useless legislation, heavily
influenced by lobbyists, which won't be enforced anyway. That'll show

'em!

Quoted message said:

I would say that law enforcement should have higher prioritites.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In most sports, he said, a positive result means that you are completely
washed up as an athlete. That means that even if you catch an athlete
red-handed doped to the gills, many of them will sue anyway in order to
maintain their franchise in sports. Defending against these law suits runs
into the real money.

Yes, this is a relatively recent tactic though. When Ben Johnson
tested positive he didn't launch a lawsuit, but if it happened today
that is what would happen.

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And there is always the chance of a false positive destroying the reputation
and career of an honest and innocent athlete.

Positive test evidence will always have a hard time holding up in
court because no test can claim to be 100% free of false positives,
and there are lots of procedural points which can be disputed.

The only thing that can solve this problem is money. If players start
suing other players because they feel defrauded out of records or
other sporting achievments and income then maybe things will get
tightened up.

The fans don't really care or accept doping. The leagues and teams of
course only care only so far pleasing the sponsors go.

People don't understand why the major leagues work so hard to maintain
a "professional" image, it's for the sponsors, not for the fans who
aren't as turned of by unprofessionalism.

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The drug tests run by WADA/USADA/etc do not cost that much since it is
really not a total screening.

I understand that and so stated. But the problem if finding drugs is finding
them all and not the most common. That is why I asked for and got the

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The false positive rate is not that high. See the literature.

Maybe you missed the part where I said that ANY false positives are very
serious. Also, certain types of chemical analysis are known for 30% false
positives and 10% or so false negatives. Whenever a positive is achieved
they resort of another sort of test with a much lower rate of false
positives in order to varify it. This means that there s something like a
10% chance of missing a real positive by using a cheaper analysis method and
might be the source of some of those hare-brained schemes to "prevent
detection" that Jesus Manzano was discussing.

If you wish to discuss this I can connect you with my friend but let me warn
you that he knows precisely what he knows and he loves to argue. What is
more, aside from a bachelors in chemistry, a master's in chemical
engineering and a PhD in separation sciences he also speaks a half dozen
languages well enough to have provided scientific translations in both
directions. Oh, yeah, and he also holds a law degree as well. I doubt you
have the ability to win an argument with him on that subject. I've never
been able to win one on any subject with him.