A Travesty

in article [email hidden], Brian Laffatme
at [email hidden] wrote on 4/11/04 2:51 PM:

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while USPS, USAC,
Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still active.

Tyler Hamilton won Liège-Bastogne-Liège last year, thou king amongst
dumbasses. Also, Armstrong himself won San Sebastian-San Sebastian.

Quoted message said:

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team. He would
have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he were on any other
squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has ruined the career of every
single rider who has passed through that system with the exception of
Armstrong himself.

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so without
being on USPS first.

Quoted message said:

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends its
corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of this year.

I hotly disagree, because it means there will be no more American Div. I
teams. There is also only one Div. II team - Navigators - which, IIRC, is
not very high up in the UCI standings and is unlikely to get a chance to
move into Div. I.

-Sonarrat.

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while USPS, USAC,
Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team. He would
have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he were on any other
squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has ruined the career of every
single rider who has passed through that system with the exception of
Armstrong himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends its
corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

There's little in life that's more pitiful than bad parody. Sonarrat has
clearly pointed out why your parody is so awful that it's at the point of
becoming funny for a totally different reason. ;-)

and what does "tata" mean anyway? Is it about "tatas" ? Or about India's
Tata Coffee? Or some sort of non-homophobic FAQ signaling ?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Laffatme" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while USPS, USAC,
Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team. He would
have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he were on any other
squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has ruined the career of every
single rider who has passed through that system with the exception of
Armstrong himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends its
corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

There's little in life that's more pitiful than bad parody. Sonarrat has
clearly pointed out why your parody is so awful that it's at the point of
becoming funny for a totally different reason. ;-)

[email hidden] (Brian Laffatme) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while USPS, USAC,
Thom Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still active.

George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team. He would
have 3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he were on any other
squad. The focus on Lance Armstrong has ruined the career of every
single rider who has passed through that system with the exception of
Armstrong himself.

It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends its
corrosive and corrupting sponsorship at the end of this year.

tata,

Brian Lafferty

Could be that George stays on the team because he's a friend of
Armstrong, is paid well, and there's no disillusion as to what the
main goal of the USPS cycling team is. Winning the Tour de France,
at least since 1999. Hincapie I'm sure could win more races with more
support, but I'm also sure he hasn't minded being part of 5 winning
Tour de France teams. And being partly responsible for those wins has
to have some sort of satisfaction. And there is no way he would have
had 3 or 4 victories in Paris-Roubaix were he on some other team.
He'd be the American lackey carrying water bottles for someone else
instead of being the team leader for the Classics. Get over it,
George likes it where he is.

Brian Laffatme said:

No American rider will ever win a World Cup race while USPS, USAC, Thom
Weisel and Lance Armstrong are still active.
George Hincapie is so dumb and used, staying on that team. He would have
3 or 4 Paris-Roubaix victories by now if he were on any other squad. The
focus on Lance Armstrong has ruined the career of every single rider who
has passed through that system with the exception of Armstrong himself.
It will be a great day for American cycling when USPS ends its corrosive
and corrupting sponsorship at the end of this year.
tata,
Brian Lafferty

I haven't posted in months, but this is one of the dumbest posts yet.
First, what indication do you have that Hincape is a better rider than
Museuw, PVP, Boonen, Bettini or anyone else that wins classics. I don't
think he is. He needs to prove himself. Second, Clearly 2 or 3 years ago
postal was not supporting him. Wait actually he was in perfect position
with good support from Tom Boonen, but then George fell off the road. Of
course blame USPS. Third, how could team support have helped George
today. He made a move, which then got caught and then as he said he had
nothing left. I don't think the team had anything to do with it.
Furthermore, I think that everyone who did well in todays race really
did it because of their own skill, condtioning and luck not because of
major team support.

--

On 11 Apr 2004 21:04:06 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Arsenault)

Quoted message said:

He'd be the American lackey carrying water bottles for someone else
instead of being the team leader for the Classics.

Right, like Hammond had to do all the domestigue work at Mr. Bookmaker
Sunday (and at G-W too) since he's not Belgian.

JT

lazysegall said:

Quoted message said:

I haven't posted in months, but this is one of the dumbest posts yet.

this is me, reading this and similar replies
http://home.comcast.net/~pomeroyq/ouch.gif

brian, do something to make it stop...

heather

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lazysegall said:

Quoted message said:

I haven't posted in months, but this is one of the dumbest posts yet.

this is me, reading this and similar replies
http://home.comcast.net/~pomeroyq/ouch.gif

brian, do something to make it stop...

heather

There just isn't much to be done about parody impaired posters.

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so
without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

B. Lafferty said:

There just isn't much to be done about parody impaired posters.

yeah, well, i should shut up about it anyway. the whole thing is fairly
humorous, why do i ask for more?

heather

"h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

There just isn't much to be done about parody impaired posters.

yeah, well, i should shut up about it anyway. the whole thing is fairly
humorous, why do i ask for more?

Why? Because you deserve better. Don't we all?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so
without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS, and second, more
importantly, because the team represented the cream of the American crop
and gave them important exposure in major European races. Perhaps I'm
just showing my inexperience in this area, but I can't find evidence of
any other team doing so for the period after Motorola stopped.

-Sonarrat.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so
without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS, and second, more
importantly, because the team represented the cream of the American crop
and gave them important exposure in major European races. Perhaps I'm
just showing my inexperience in this area, but I can't find evidence of
any other team doing so for the period after Motorola stopped.

-Sonarrat.

Julich has managed to have success without being on USPS.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carl Sundquist said:

Julich has managed to have success without being on USPS.

I'm sorry, I'm just confusing the issue. Let me start over... so I can
better explain my understanding of Americans in the pro peloton
(excluding those still on USPS). I'll start with the facts, so that I
don't get too carried away.

Bobby Julich and Lance Armstrong have several things in common: they
were both riding for Motorola in 1996, they both signed with Cofidis for
the 1997 season. Armstrong's story does not need repeating, but Julich
stayed with Cofidis and established himself as a man for the Grand
Tours. Already with a 9th place in the Vuelta, he took 17th and then
3rd in Le Tour in '97 and '98. Then he had two rather fruitless years
with Credit Agricole, then two disastrous years with Telekom before
signing for CSC-Tiscali for the 2004 season, which has, so far, been
very promising.

Levi Leipheimer was a Saturn rider, then signed with USPS for 2000. His
development within the mere two years he spent with the team was
incredible; I believe this is because he raced in races he never could
have been in with Saturn, such as the Vuelta a España, where he had a
podium finish in 2001. His 2002 season was a success, with an 8th place
in the TdF, but in 2003, he crashed in the first road stage of the Tour
and his season was ruined. This year already promises to be better.

Tyler Hamilton was a founding member of the USPS team in 1996. He
showed a flash of brilliance in finishing 2nd in an ITT stage of the '98
Tour, then won an ITT stage the following year, the first year that
Lance won. He could have joined any of a number of other teams at this
point, but he stuck it out with USPS until the end of 2001, the same
time Leipheimer defected. He went to CSC-Tiscali, where his years of
experience on USPS paid off with a 2nd place in the Giro, a 4th place in
the TdF, a WC win and a 2.HC stage race win. I think that the strength
he showed in dealing with a broken shoulder in the Giro and a broken
collarbone in the TdF signified a tenacity that developed in him
gradually during his stint as a Postie domestique - purely my opinion.
Now with the Phonak team, he looks OK so far.

Christian Vandevelde has been a USPS workhorse since 1998. He crashed
out of the 2001 Tour, and was snubbed for Tour selection at least for
2003. For 2004, he is now at Heras' side with Manolo Saiz' new Liberty
Seguros team. Revenge? Devotion to Heras? I don't know.

Fred Rodriguez, sprinter, started on Saturn, then signed with Mapei in
1999. After a rather good 2000 season, he signed with Domo; 2002 was
marked by two 2nd places in major classics. His 2003 season with Vini
Caldirola was just off of the level set by 2002, and his 2004 season
with Acqua & Sapone has not gotten off the ground yet.

Tom Danielson joined Fassa Bortolo after making a reputation as the top
pure climber in the US, and after winning the Tour de Langkawi. If he
is indeed going to the Giro d'Italia this year, he should be interesting
to watch.

Tim Johnson signed with new Spanish team Saunier Duval-Prodir this year
after a successful 2003 season with Saturn, which terminated its
sponsorship afterwards.

==

Looking at this, I see too many unique cases to make the sweeping
generalizations I made earlier in this thread... what I do notice is
that Americans are entering the European peloton at a healthy rate right
now, and there have been a lot of moves this year...

-Sonarrat.

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news

Quoted message said:

Looking at this, I see too many unique cases to make the sweeping
generalizations I made earlier in this thread... what I do notice is
that Americans are entering the European peloton at a healthy rate right
now, and there have been a lot of moves this year...

-Sonarrat.

Don't forget Clinger.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:107p6qs4oost21
@corp.supernews.com:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat wrote:
>
> None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so
> without being on USPS first.

Julich has managed to have success without being on USPS.

heh. Ok, we can assume that Sonarrat is excluding success that might be
attributed to, um, extra medication while Bobby rode for Cofidis.

NS

Sonarrat said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat said:

None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so
without being on USPS first.

There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS,

The posties who left Postal became successful when they did not have
Bruyneel as a DS any longer.

Quoted message said:

and second, more
importantly, because the team represented the cream of the American
crop and gave them important exposure in major European races.

I guess the Aussies are still waiting for an Australian-based team to help
them make it big in Europe, then.

[email hidden] (jim gravity) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news

Quoted message said:

Looking at this, I see too many unique cases to make the sweeping
generalizations I made earlier in this thread... what I do notice is
that Americans are entering the European peloton at a healthy rate right
now, and there have been a lot of moves this year...

-Sonarrat.

Don't forget Clinger.

You're absolutely right... trap-friis.dk overlooked him. I'll email Lars...

-Sonarrat.

"Kyle Legate" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kyle Legate said:

Sonarrat wrote:
>
> None of the ex-Posties who went on to success could have done so
> without being on USPS first.
>
There's a bold claim. Why do you think it's true?

First, because of Johan Bruyneel's skill as a DS,

The posties who left Postal became successful when they did not have
Bruyneel as a DS any longer.

But they got hired away as "promotions" to be team leaders. The argument
can be made that Bruyneel's skill was in identifying and developing their
talent. Remember too that Livingston was supposed to be "the man" for the
Linda McCartney team. And I'll bet Landis the next one to get poached.
But without Postal, a lot of these guys could be riding for Jelly Belly.

Sheesh! Where's Henry? He [censored] all over you with the same arguments he
made on this topic sometime within the past year, dumbass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and second, more
importantly, because the team represented the cream of the American
crop and gave them important exposure in major European races.

I guess the Aussies are still waiting for an Australian-based team to
help them make it big in Europe, then.

If there was an Aussie team similar to USPS, perhaps there would be
double the number of prominent Aussies in the Euro peloton. Until we get
something like a Foster's Lager presented by Kangaroo Floors team, we
really won't know.

NS