performance improvement with cleats

[email hidden] wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

I've heard that cleats with good cycling shoes are about 20% more efficient
than sneakers with platform pedals. That does not mean you will be 20%
faster, however. Your speed increase will depend on aerodynamics, previous
speed, technique, etc.

Ken said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

I've heard that cleats with good cycling shoes are about 20% more efficient
than sneakers with platform pedals. That does not mean you will be 20%
faster, however. Your speed increase will depend on aerodynamics, previous
speed, technique, etc.

20% sounds like a lot but wind resistance increases logarithmically so
you might only gain just a minute or two over 20 miles riding solo.

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

A significant amount. If you're trying to qualify it and intend to do
time trials in rat trap pedals, well, lemme know your email address,
I'll send you a phishing scam.

And you should see the difference in sprinting ;-)

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

The vast majority of riders won't save any time at all.

Paul Kopit said:

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

The vast majority of riders won't save any time at all.

I generally subscribe to the "calories burned - calories of
resistance" reasoning. In the hot Florida summer heat and humidity I
generally keep my calorie burn rate a little lower anyways or else I
go into heat stroke. For you northern riders cleats must equate to
higher calorie burn rates because you are using supplemental muscles?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

The vast majority of riders won't save any time at all.

I generally subscribe to the "calories burned - calories of
resistance" reasoning. In the hot Florida summer heat and humidity I
generally keep my calorie burn rate a little lower anyways or else I
go into heat stroke. For you northern riders cleats must equate to
higher calorie burn rates because you are using supplemental muscles?

It's not about the muscles you use, it's just the watts you put out, that has
nothing to do with cleats. Clipless pedals are great, but they're a safety and
comfort improvement, not a performance enhancer.

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:tiUJc.105690$XM6.72116@attbi_s53:

Quoted message said:

It's not about the muscles you use, it's just the watts you put out, that
has nothing to do with cleats. Clipless pedals are great, but they're a
safety and comfort improvement, not a performance enhancer.

On a flat road at low speeds, that might be true. At higher speeds (harder
pedalling), stiff cycling shoes flex less and that has a definate performance
boost. When climbing, cleats help you pull all the around the pedalling
circle, giving you better efficiency and more power for the same wattage
output. Same is true when sprinting.

Ken said:

When climbing, cleats help you pull all the around the pedalling
circle, giving you better efficiency and more power for the same wattage
output.

More power for the same wattage, eh? That _is_ a neat trick.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:tiUJc.105690$XM6.72116@attbi_s53:

Quoted message said:

It's not about the muscles you use, it's just the watts you put out, that
has nothing to do with cleats. Clipless pedals are great, but they're a
safety and comfort improvement, not a performance enhancer.

On a flat road at low speeds, that might be true. At higher speeds (harder
pedalling), stiff cycling shoes flex less and that has a definate

performance

Quoted message said:

boost.

Ah, but now you're changing the subject to shoes. I think you'd have a hard
time quantifying the power losses in flexible shoes, too.

Quoted message said:

When climbing, cleats help you pull all the around the pedalling
circle, giving you better efficiency and more power for the same wattage
output. Same is true when sprinting.

That helps you produce more force sometimes, but of course the guys who max in
this area (track cyclists) use straps. This really has nothing to do with
efficiency, except that there's likely a reverse relationship -- more
force/instantaneous power, less efficiency. For recreational cyclists,
"pulling up" is dangerous and inefficient, it's not what clipless pedals were
designed for (except in the minds of sales-droids). From a comfort & safety
POV though, they're a real breakthrough.

Peter Cole said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

On 16 Jul 2004 11:03:01 EDT, [email hidden] wrote:

> Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
> About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
> cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
> trap pedals?

The vast majority of riders won't save any time at all.

I generally subscribe to the "calories burned - calories of
resistance" reasoning. In the hot Florida summer heat and humidity I
generally keep my calorie burn rate a little lower anyways or else I
go into heat stroke. For you northern riders cleats must equate to
higher calorie burn rates because you are using supplemental muscles?

It's not about the muscles you use, it's just the watts you put out, that has
nothing to do with cleats. Clipless pedals are great, but they're a safety and
comfort improvement, not a performance enhancer.

I cry [censored]. I can most certainly go faster with clipless pedals
than without (both average speed, *and* top speed). And this was true
the very first time I used the pedals.

You don't think this "average power must be the same" isn't just a red
herring you're using to obfuscate the argument?

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in news:8Yk*
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When climbing, cleats help you pull all the around the pedalling
circle, giving you better efficiency and more power for the same wattage
output.

More power for the same wattage, eh? That _is_ a neat trick.

Power multiplied by efficiency gives you more output, right?

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

Performance? I would consider clipless pedals and shoes are used more
for safety and comfort. Safety due to not having your foot come off
the pedal when spinning at a high cadence or if you unexpectedly shift
to a super low gear when pressing hard on the pedals. Comfort due to
the hard sole of cycling shoes not allowing the pedal cage to press
into your foot as with soft soled sneakers. And some performance due
to your energy going into pushing the pedals down instead of
compressing the soles of your soft shoes.

It's also a little safer riding with cleats, as they provide more
control over the bike.

JT

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

It's also a little safer riding with cleats, as they provide more
control over the bike.

But it is also a little safer to fall of your bike without them 🙂))

"Bill Lloyd" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I cry [censored]. I can most certainly go faster with clipless pedals
than without (both average speed, *and* top speed). And this was true
the very first time I used the pedals.

You can't. I cried [censored] first, although I was too polite to use the word.
FWIW, I went faster for at least a week after I got my new bike.

Quoted message said:

You don't think this "average power must be the same" isn't just a red
herring you're using to obfuscate the argument?

No, I hardly know what obfuscate means (at least in this context). I didn't
say anything about average power either, whatever that is. All I said is that
pulling up doesn't make you faster, sustained power is an aerobic function.
You can't have biked much if you haven't figured that out yet.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

I don't post here often, but I'm glad you asked.
First off, I need to say I've been riding seriously for *only* 5 weeks. I
bought a Cannondale 5 weeks ago, and I have 475 miles on it already. I rode
a hybrid for two years, and lost 58 lbs with a proper diet. I still have a
lot to learn about cycling.
I ride on a 9.5 mile course, and twice around (19 miles) I have been riding
in 68 minutes on regular pedals and Nike sneakers. Three weeks ago, I
bought Shimano shoes and Ultegra pedals. The first time out, after a few
short rides to get the feel of the spinning, I rode the 19 miles in 59:59.
The pedals/ shoes made an incredible difference.

winnard

Quoted message said:

From: "winnard"

Quoted message said:

First off, I need to say I've been riding seriously for *only* 5 weeks. I
bought a Cannondale 5 weeks ago, and I have 475 miles on it already. I rode
a hybrid for two years, and lost 58 lbs with a proper diet. I still have a
lot to learn about cycling.
I ride on a 9.5 mile course, and twice around (19 miles) I have been riding
in 68 minutes on regular pedals and Nike sneakers. Three weeks ago, I
bought Shimano shoes and Ultegra pedals. The first time out, after a few
short rides to get the feel of the spinning, I rode the 19 miles in 59:59.
The pedals/ shoes made an incredible >difference.

Good work, nice pace you're getting together. Shoes, give 'em credit for some
of that time. Yourself, too. Plus "new gear" factor.

Did you do group rides on your hybrid over the last couple of years? --TP

"Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "winnard"

Quoted message said:

First off, I need to say I've been riding seriously for *only* 5 weeks.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bought a Cannondale 5 weeks ago, and I have 475 miles on it already. I

rode

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a hybrid for two years, and lost 58 lbs with a proper diet. I still have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lot to learn about cycling.
I ride on a 9.5 mile course, and twice around (19 miles) I have been

riding

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in 68 minutes on regular pedals and Nike sneakers. Three weeks ago, I
bought Shimano shoes and Ultegra pedals. The first time out, after a

few

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

short rides to get the feel of the spinning, I rode the 19 miles in

59:59.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The pedals/ shoes made an incredible >difference.

Good work, nice pace you're getting together. Shoes, give 'em credit for

some

Quoted message said:

of that time. Yourself, too. Plus "new gear" factor.

Did you do group rides on your hybrid over the last couple of years? --TP

I've been riding alone, sometimes with my wife. I cannot lie, I am
addicted to cycling, and it came about in a hurry. I've met a couple of
good riders that I ride with every once in awhile.

winnard

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:51:02 -0500, "winnard" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most serious cyclists use cleats these days to improve performance.
About how many minutes would you save over a 20 mile flat course
cycling with cleats VS cycling the same distance with sneakers and rat
trap pedals?

I don't post here often, but I'm glad you asked.
First off, I need to say I've been riding seriously for *only* 5 weeks. I
bought a Cannondale 5 weeks ago, and I have 475 miles on it already. I rode
a hybrid for two years, and lost 58 lbs with a proper diet. I still have a
lot to learn about cycling.
I ride on a 9.5 mile course, and twice around (19 miles) I have been riding
in 68 minutes on regular pedals and Nike sneakers. Three weeks ago, I
bought Shimano shoes and Ultegra pedals. The first time out, after a few
short rides to get the feel of the spinning, I rode the 19 miles in 59:59.
The pedals/ shoes made an incredible difference.

winnard

That sounds like a pretty steep fine to pay for not using SPD pedals.
As other posters have mentioned, for sprinting, hill climbing, or any
situation where your feet are in danger of coming off the pedals SPD's
look like the way to go. Did you notice that you were using any new
muscles from pulling up on the pedals?