Headset Torque

Whoops, Raceface recommend 12.Nm-13.5Nm for the stem bolts, 10.8-12.2 is for
the faceplate. In any event, 10Nm still seems really high for a headset!

Whoops, Raceface recommend 12.Nm-13.5Nm for the stem bolts, 10.8-12.2 is for
the faceplate. In any event, 10Nm still seems really high for a headset!

Paul Davis said:

Whilst reading the tech. info for Easton stems on their website I came
across the following info. regarding adjusting the headset :-

"Align the stem on the bike and install the top cap with the appropriate
6mm hex bolt. Using a torque wrench with a 6mm hex key, compact the
headset/stem unit by tightening the bolt to the torque specified by the
headset manufacturer. If the headset manufacturer has not specified torque,
tighten to 10 Nm (7.4 ft-lbs)."

The instructions that came with my Canecreek S2 headset say to tighten the
top cap until play is removed as do the instructions that came with my
Raceface Prodigy stem.

I've done this (using a dial indicating torque wrench) and the torque needed
to remove play is in the region of 4Nm-5Nm. Does this sound reasonable or
should I be looking to tighten it further? 10Nm seems rather high (Raceface
recommend only 10.8Nm-12.2Nm for the stem bolts!).

Thanks for any thoughts
PJay

While the torque specs are a very good guide, my advice is to not end up
being a slave to them. The forces acting on (and the movements of) these
bearings and races are relatively low compared with many other ball
bearing applications, such as centre brackets and hubs.

At the risk of stating the obvious - a headset that rattles *might*
cause the bearing races to get scored; a headset that is too tight will
not steer on its own when hands are removed from the bars. Between these
extremes there is a wide range of tightness that will be quite
acceptable, i.e. good steering as well as headset longevity.

Rock the bike back and forth with the front brake applied. Tighten top
cap until play disappears; I myself add about 1/16th to 1/8th of a turn
more. Then make sure that the fork rotates freely.

After that, tighten stem bolts, remember to back off the top cap bolt to
finger-tight, etc.

/Robert

remember to back off the top cap bolt

Quoted message said:

to finger-tight, etc.

Why?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Forget the torque wrench for the top bolt!! Start off with play then
repeatedly adjust headset until play just disappears. The top bolt is
only preloading the bearings during adhustment, it doesn't need to be very
tight, and in fact you could ride safely without it altogether if you
liked (once the stem clamp bolts are tight).

~PB

ZeeExSixAre said:

remember to back off the top cap bolt

Quoted message said:

to finger-tight, etc.

Why?

Good point. To be more precise, I should've said "it does no harm to
back off the tension on the top cap bolt a bit, after the stem bolts are
tightened".

My saying "remember to ..." was just to drive home the point that the
top cap is, once the stem bolts are tightened, of cosmetic importance
only. You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset without
loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few threads about this
earlier . . .

No offence intended ;-)

/Robert

ZeeExSixAre said:

remember to back off the top cap bolt

Quoted message said:

to finger-tight, etc.

Why?

Perhaps because some of those flimsy top caps will break if left under
tension. This has caused more than a few panic-stricken calls to one
lbs; in one case, the caller was *certain* that the stem would fall
off if that cap wasn't replaced. That shop now takes some pains to
explain the *lack* of necessity for that particular part when they
sell a bike.

Personally, I'd prefer to have a quill stem.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.

Paul Davis said:

Whilst reading the tech. info for Easton stems on their website I came
across the following info. regarding adjusting the headset :-

"Align the stem on the bike and install the top cap with the appropriate
6mm hex bolt. Using a torque wrench with a 6mm hex key, compact the
headset/stem unit by tightening the bolt to the torque specified by the
headset manufacturer. If the headset manufacturer has not specified torque,
tighten to 10 Nm (7.4 ft-lbs)."

The instructions that came with my Canecreek S2 headset say to tighten the
top cap until play is removed as do the instructions that came with my
Raceface Prodigy stem.

I've done this (using a dial indicating torque wrench) and the torque needed
to remove play is in the region of 4Nm-5Nm. Does this sound reasonable or
should I be looking to tighten it further? 10Nm seems rather high (Raceface
recommend only 10.8Nm-12.2Nm for the stem bolts!).

My experience:

If the headset uses a resilient (rubber-like) sleeve or collar to
center and/or maintain tension on the bearing, I go a bit tighter than
specified because I've noticed that these tend to loosen up quickly if
I don't. If there are no resilient parts in the stack, I barely snug
it down, just to the point where the play is removed.

Personally, I prefer headsets with no resilient parts. I don't think
things with dimensions as inconstant as those have any place in a
precision assembly...but that's just me.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.

getting it "right" with a cone and ball threaded headset is an
interesting experience for the first coupla timers.
the prose reads-get the forks stiff!!
is this with or with the wheel on?
how does one do this using loctite?
without pondering that's for sure.
stabbing in the dark at this thru two-three rebuilds gave equally good
results
leading to the conclusion the headsets within certain parameters (thou
shalt not be an imbecile) are forgiving.
what i am up to is cranking the torque in (threaded) until the
bearings rumble and the forks are stiff
reason is the forks/wheel brace off the ground pushing bearings looser
and relieve the rumble.
so far so good.
when rebuilding, buy two bearing sets or two o-rings sets, next time
it'll go back easy. tape the stuff down into the toolbox or the
medicine cabinet.
start with the caged bearings and when the set shows wear go to loose
bearings changing the race levels. that'll work to relieve a bridled
cup. sometimes.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:32 GMT, Robert <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset without
loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few threads about this
earlier . . .

Stripped ones, of course.
--

Cheers,

Al

Al C-F said:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:32 GMT, Robert <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset without
loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few threads about this
earlier . . .

Stripped ones, of course.

And a few crossed.

[bolting for the exit...]

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Al C-F said:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:32 GMT, Robert <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset without
loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few threads about this
earlier . . .

Stripped ones, of course.

And a few crossed.

[bolting for the exit...]

Dear Werehatrack,

I seize your point.

Carl [double-pun] Fogel

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

Al C-F said:

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:32 GMT, Robert
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
> the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset
> without loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few
> threads about this earlier . . .

Stripped ones, of course.

And a few crossed.

[bolting for the exit...]

Dear Werehatrack,

I seize your point.

Carl [double-pun] Fogel

You're all CRACK!ed.

Bill "rounding out the conversation" S.

S o r n i said:

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 22:43:40 +0100, Al C-F
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:32 GMT, Robert
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
>> the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset
>> without loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few
>> threads about this earlier . . .
>
> Stripped ones, of course.

And a few crossed.

[bolting for the exit...]

Dear Werehatrack,

I seize your point.

Carl [double-pun] Fogel

You're all CRACK!ed.

Oh, and (star) nuts, too.

Bill "just gonna torque folks off now" S.

S o r n i said:

S o r n i said:

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:55:18 GMT, Werehatrack
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 22:43:40 +0100, Al C-F
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:53:32 GMT, Robert
>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>> You'd be surprised at the number of readers here (not necessarily
>>> the OP though) who insist on trying to tighten a loose headset
>>> without loosening the stem bolts first. There have been a few
>>> threads about this earlier . . .
>>
>> Stripped ones, of course.
>
> And a few crossed.
>
> [bolting for the exit...]
>

Dear Werehatrack,

I seize your point.

Carl [double-pun] Fogel

You're all CRACK!ed.

Oh, and (star) nuts, too.

Bill "just gonna torque folks off now" S.

A crossed thread is a tight thread. ; )

right. resilient parts. like steel threads from 1980's japanese real
steel and enough loctite to save the queen.
bangbambang down the road and everything compresses a wee bit and
takes the tightness out within the forgiving torque range,
beware of those(the movie beware voice...)who only repair
and never ride.bewarebeware erk erk

(g.daniels) said:

right. resilient parts. like steel threads from 1980's japanese real
steel and enough loctite to save the queen.
bangbambang down the road and everything compresses a wee bit and
takes the tightness out within the forgiving torque range,
beware of those(the movie beware voice...)who only repair
and never ride.bewarebeware erk erk

One *theory* behind having resilient parts in there is that they will
keep things snug by maintaining tension as things shift. The reality,
from where I sit, is that the resilient materials seldom maintain
their tension; they harden, they accept permanent deformations, they
rot...and when that happens, their supposed advantage has just become
a liability.

Where nonmetal parts are used, all of their characteristics have to be
taken into account, not just the one that supplies a desired feature.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

right! resilience is often wishful thinking-advertising puffery
but i have a 40 year old volvo-there's rubber in there. Wait'll you
feel this stuff.And a transistor the size of a sewing thimble.
but the plastics, excellent but not the slippery live vinyl plastic of
2004.
the same probably goes for rubber bushings-on the porsche/merc level
of tech overkill for the helluvit: near racing parts on street cars.
how 'bout cannondales plastic shock headset? how's that hold up? Are
there rear plastic shock pads?
the locktite is plastic(y)and it gives under pressure- a thousandth of
an inch over ??? but hangs in there keeping things tight.
but i allow a 24 hour headset cure in 80 degrees