Issues with folding bicycles on European trains?

You can hire a bike in any of the cities you mention.
Tom Worthington <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wrote 3 May 2003

<http://groups.google.com.au/groups?threadm=cf94a0b1.0305031653.3fe83456%40p
osting.google.com>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My doctor prescribed a bicycle ... ended up with a Dahon "Boardwalk

6",

Quoted message said:

6 speed 20" folding bicycle, which has proved far more useful
than expected. ...

Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by aircraft
then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by train. Any issues or
suggestions?

If I put the bicycle in a carry bag I assume it can be taken as normal
luggage, as I did to Brisbane
<http://www.tomw.net.au/2003/bb/brisbane.html>. Bringing a similar
folding bicycle back from China, as it was not covered and had to be
separately checked in (where golf clubs are handled)
<http://www.tomw.net.au/2003/bws/>.

The intention is not to go on long cycling tours, just short day trips
around the city centre, with luggage left at a hotel. But here is
still the problem of transporting the bicycle and luggage to and from
planes and trains.

Putting the bicycle bag on top of a small wheeled cabin bag (with
luggage in it) when walking to the airport seems to work. For longer
distances, strapping the bag to the top of the bicycle carrier and
riding the bicycle seems to be workable. Because the bike has small
wheels the load is low down, about the level panniers would be on a
conventional bicycle. Towing the wheeled bag behind the bike carrier
(with the bag handle extended as a tow bar), seems to work. But the
bag wheels are too small and noisy for road use.

Will do a report on how it works out. Previous trip reports at
<http://www.tomw.net.au/travel/Tourist.htm>.

ps: I realize that specially designed hard cases are available to put
bicycles in, but I really can't see the point. A folded bicycle is
stronger than the case, so why have the case? The padded bag I have is
really more to protect everyone else's luggage from the bicycle. Also
with the soft case you can hide the bicycle if they are not allowed or
uncover it if there is a concession for bicycles.

Tom Worthington FACS [email hidden]
Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617
Visiting Fellow, Computer Science, Australian National University
Publications Director, Australian Computer Society

Tom Worthington said:

I wrote 3 May 2003 <http://groups.google.com.au/groups?threadm=cf94a0b1.0305031653.3fe83456%40posting.google.com>:

Quoted message said:

Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by aircraft
then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by train. Any issues or
suggestions?

If I put the bicycle in a carry bag I assume it can be taken as normal
luggage, as I did to Brisbane

On Belgium and Germany trains a folded bike in a bag is treated as a piece of
luggage. So can take it along on your trip.

Krist

"Tom Worthington" wrote
| Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by
| aircraft then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by
| train. Any issues or suggestions?

I don't know about Cambridge area trains specifically, but many British
trains have compartments specifically for (full-size) cycles, with restraint
straps and padlock points. Spaces are limited, requirements for reservations
and paying a fee will vary between train operating companies.

You might find the following useful:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/working/CycleTrain.aspx (UK National cyclists'
association)
http://www.atob.org.uk/Bike_Rail.html
http://www.pushbikes.freeserve.co.uk/Cycling/LeisureAndTouring/TOCs.htm
http://www.colc.co.uk/about/transport.html#ECycle (Cambridge local site)

Owain

Tom Worthington said:

Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by aircraft
then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by train. Any issues or
suggestions?

Definitely the most flexible option to take the folding bicycles. I
can't think of any form of public transport off-hand that would prohibit
you from taking them. Are there? Even our local [censored] tram service
allows folding bicycles, where regular bikes are a no-no.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Quoted message said:

| Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by
| aircraft then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by
| train. Any issues or suggestions?

I don't know about Cambridge area trains specifically, but many British
trains have compartments specifically for (full-size) cycles, with

restraint

Quoted message said:

straps and padlock points. Spaces are limited, requirements for

reservations

Quoted message said:

and paying a fee will vary between train operating companies.

IIRC the WAGN trains from Kings X to Cambridge don't have a big enough
guards compartment. I do however see quite a few people boarding with bikes
outside of peak hours. However a folding bike will be no problem.

Peter File said:

IIRC the WAGN trains from Kings X to Cambridge don't have a big enough
guards compartment. I do however see quite a few people boarding with bikes
outside of peak hours. However a folding bike will be no problem.

WAGN don't have a guards compartment at all. There are restrictions on
non-folding bikes into Cambridge and into London at certain peak times on
WAGN. These times are:
- Monday to Friday on services south of Stevenage (Kings Cross/Moorgate
routes) and Broxbourne (Liverpool Street Routes) that terminate in London
between 07.00 and 09.29 or depart from London between 16.00 and 18.59.
- Monday to Friday on services between Audley End and Cambridge that depart
from or arrive at Cambridge between 07.45 and 08.45

If you are flying to Brussels they do not allow non-folding bikes on the
Stansted Express unless they are packed flat for air travel. Best put a black
binbag over your folding bike as they can be iffy about them even if there is
no restriction.

Tony

Tom Worthington said:

Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by aircraft
then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by train. Any issues or
suggestions?

Folding bicycles may be transported on almost all UK trains (including
the ones you will be using) and the London Underground without trouble.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

Tom Worthington said:

Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by aircraft
then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by train. Any issues or
suggestions?

Taking a full size bike on a UK train involves negotiating a Kafkaesque
series of rules which vary from train company to train company,
depending on their type of rolling stock and their overcrowding problem
(despite the trains being rubbish, they're busier than ever!) Some
operators will not take bikes at all on some services, some require
pre-booking and with others you just turn up.

Folding bikes like Bromptons are always OK - I don't know how big your
bike is but if it's similar then you should have no problems.

"Tom Worthington" wrote

Quoted message said:

Was going to take the folding bicycle to the UK on Tuesday by aircraft
then Cambridge, Brussels, Berlin and Hamburg by train. Any issues or
suggestions?

www.nationalrail.co.uk will get you links to all the UK rail companies, each
of which has its own policies about bicycles (Why does a country the size of
the UK need 30 odd rail companies?). Most rail companies seem to treat a
folding bike in a case the way they would treat any comparably sized
suitcase, it's the fully assembled, full sized bicycles that become
troublesome. My own (very limited) experience taking a fully loaded tourer
on trains in the UK was not bad, other regulars on this NG seem to have a
limitless supply of horror stories.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

www.nationalrail.co.uk will get you links to all the UK rail companies,

each

Quoted message said:

of which has its own policies about bicycles (Why does a country the size

of

Quoted message said:

the UK need 30 odd rail companies?). Most rail companies seem to treat a
folding bike in a case the way they would treat any comparably sized
suitcase, it's the fully assembled, full sized bicycles that become
troublesome. My own (very limited) experience taking a fully loaded tourer
on trains in the UK was not bad, other regulars on this NG seem to have a
limitless supply of horror stories.

I've had OK experiences with just turning up. The major problem is crossing
London. It takes some nerve to cycle across London if your not used to
London drivers.

Crossing London is OK if you use the cycle routes - they tend to go along
the quieter streets. A map can be ordered (free) from www.tfl.gov.uk

Also, use the bus lanes (this is legal) - they tend to be quieter, but be
prepared for bus drivers who will drive close behind and try to intimidate
you out of the way (just ignore them....they will drop back after the next
bus stop!)

"Peter File" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

www.nationalrail.co.uk will get you links to all the UK rail companies,

each

Quoted message said:

of which has its own policies about bicycles (Why does a country the

size

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

the UK need 30 odd rail companies?). Most rail companies seem to treat a
folding bike in a case the way they would treat any comparably sized
suitcase, it's the fully assembled, full sized bicycles that become
troublesome. My own (very limited) experience taking a fully loaded

tourer

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on trains in the UK was not bad, other regulars on this NG seem to have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

limitless supply of horror stories.

I've had OK experiences with just turning up. The major problem is

crossing

Quoted message said:

London. It takes some nerve to cycle across London if your not used to
London drivers.

Hedgehog said:

Crossing London is OK if you use the cycle routes - they tend to go along
the quieter streets. A map can be ordered (free) from www.tfl.gov.uk

Quick bit of Googling on the station link proposal turns up:
http://www.blagged.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/citycyclists/statcirc.html

Peter File said:

someone else said:

(Why does a country the size of the UK need 30 odd rail companies?)

We don't, it's fallout from privatisation, which has doubled subsidy and
made no real improvements. The experience can largely be summarised by the
observation that in the days of state-owned British Rail, railway food was
cheap and nasty; now it's expensive and nasty.

Quoted message said:

I've had OK experiences with just turning up. The major problem is crossing
London. It takes some nerve to cycle across London if your not used to
London drivers.

Bear in mind that you may use the surface Tube lines outside the rush hour
with an unfolded bike; most of the major railway terminuses are on or
within walking distance of the Circle Line.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
<cut>

Quoted message said:

Bear in mind that you may use the surface Tube lines outside the rush hour
with an unfolded bike; most of the major railway terminuses are on or
within walking distance of the Circle Line.

A bit of a contradiction in terms here. The shallow underground lines
are not "tube", but of cut-and-cover construction. It is the deep
lines that are bored (and hence tubes) where bikes are banned due to
possible problems on the escalators.

I know many people refer to the whole of London Underground somewhat
loosely as "the tube", but your "surface tube" is too odd a
juxtaposition to pass without comment.

Your information about bike carrying regulations is, however,
accurate.

Andrew Webster

Andrew Webster said:

David Damerell said:

Bear in mind that you may use the surface Tube lines outside the rush hour
with an unfolded bike; most of the major railway terminuses are on or
within walking distance of the Circle Line.

A bit of a contradiction in terms here. The shallow underground lines
are not "tube", but of cut-and-cover construction.

I know that (although I realise other rbt readers may not); indeed,
outside central London (as you know) the surface lines are above the
surface in many places.

_But_ it's all the big-T Tube even where it's not a small-t tube; just as
it is the big-U Underground even when it is not little-u underground.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Andrew Webster said:

David Damerell said:

Bear in mind that you may use the surface Tube lines outside the rush hour
with an unfolded bike; most of the major railway terminuses are on or
within walking distance of the Circle Line.

A bit of a contradiction in terms here. The shallow underground lines
are not "tube", but of cut-and-cover construction.

I know that (although I realise other rbt readers may not); indeed,
outside central London (as you know) the surface lines are above the
surface in many places.

_But_ it's all the big-T Tube even where it's not a small-t tube; just as
it is the big-U Underground even when it is not little-u underground.

You are right, the capitalisation makes all the difference!

Andrew Webster

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Andrew Webster said:

David Damerell said:

Bear in mind that you may use the surface Tube lines outside the rush hour
with an unfolded bike; most of the major railway terminuses are on or
within walking distance of the Circle Line.

A bit of a contradiction in terms here. The shallow underground lines
are not "tube", but of cut-and-cover construction.

I know that (although I realise other rbt readers may not); indeed,
outside central London (as you know) the surface lines are above the
surface in many places.

_But_ it's all the big-T Tube even where it's not a small-t tube; just as
it is the big-U Underground even when it is not little-u underground.

I'll quote from http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/lu-summary.htm just
to support my argument...

The name "tube" appeared early in the 20th century when the deep level
lines first opened with their small diameter tunnels. It is now often
used (incorrectly) by the general public to mean any Underground line.
"I'll take the Tube" is an expression commonly heard in London. The
sub surface lines are the Circle, District, East London, Hammersmith &
City and Metropolitan Lines. Only the others, the Bakerloo, Central,
Jubilee, Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria and Waterloo & City Lines are
true tube lines.

....but clearly you are right here, the capitalisation makes all the
difference!

Andrew Webster

"Andrew Webster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andrew Webster said:

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote:
>Bear in mind that you may use the surface Tube lines outside the rush

hour

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>with an unfolded bike; most of the major railway terminuses are on or
>within walking distance of the Circle Line.
A bit of a contradiction in terms here. The shallow underground lines
are not "tube", but of cut-and-cover construction.

I know that (although I realise other rbt readers may not); indeed,
outside central London (as you know) the surface lines are above the
surface in many places.

_But_ it's all the big-T Tube even where it's not a small-t tube; just

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is the big-U Underground even when it is not little-u underground.

I'll quote from http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/lu-summary.htm just
to support my argument...

The name "tube" appeared early in the 20th century when the deep level
lines first opened with their small diameter tunnels. It is now often
used (incorrectly) by the general public to mean any Underground line.

Common useage defines what is 'incorrect'. In this case, you are :-)

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Quoted message said:

The name "tube" appeared early in the 20th century when the deep level
lines first opened with their small diameter tunnels. It is now often
used (incorrectly) by the general public to mean any Underground line.
"I'll take the Tube" is an expression commonly heard in London. The
sub surface lines are the Circle, District, East London, Hammersmith &
City and Metropolitan Lines. Only the others, the Bakerloo, Central,
Jubilee, Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria and Waterloo & City Lines are
true tube lines.

Right I'll remember that on my next trip from Harrow on the Hill to
Waterloo.
'Im taking the surface/cut'n'cover to Baker St and then the tube to
Waterloo'