Headset threads?

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

You'll probably find that the cost of the appropriate tools to cut the
steerer threads is more than you're willing to bear for your "beater bike".
Either have a bike shop do it for you, or take the fork to a local machinist
and show him how much more threads you need. He can cut them on his lathe
easily. That's what I did when I had the same problem and it was done in
about 15 minutes while I waited. Cost me about $20. BTW, don't worry about
the groove that runs down the length of the steerer to interteract with the
tab on the washer that goes under the headset nut. You don't need that
effect, so just file the tab off of the washer, if it's still there.

Cal

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

Quoted message said:

You'll probably find that the cost of the appropriate tools to cut the
steerer threads is more than you're willing to bear for your "beater bike".

I've already got a tap and die set, just no die in that size. If I knew
what the threads were, I'd price the die and then make the decision.

Quoted message said:

Either have a bike shop do it for you, or take the fork to a local machinist
and show him how much more threads you need. He can cut them on his lathe
easily. That's what I did when I had the same problem and it was done in
about 15 minutes while I waited. Cost me about $20. BTW, don't worry about
the groove that runs down the length of the steerer to interteract with the
tab on the washer that goes under the headset nut. You don't need that
effect, so just file the tab off of the washer, if it's still there.

Thanks for the suggestion!

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

The die will be quite expensive. Consider simply installing a spacer
under the top nut.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

The die will be quite expensive. Consider simply installing a spacer
under the top nut.

What would that be, just a large washer? I don't see how that would
help: the top threaded race (the one with the knurled edge) is
bottoming out on the threads before it takes up all the play in the
headset. The locknut on top of it still has some room, though. Maybe a
spacer under the bottom race to raise it up just a bit?

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

In article <[email hidden]>, ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net
says...

Quoted message said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

The price of such a die is quite high. It makes more sense to take it to
a competent shop that has the right tool and can do this for you.
-------------
Alex

In article <[email hidden]>, ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net
says...

Quoted message said:

I've already got a tap and die set, just no die in that size. If I knew
what the threads were, I'd price the die and then make the decision.

the cutter is the most expensive part. Also, are you sure you tap and die
set has the proper size handle to hold such a large die?
----------------
Alex

David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset?

<snip>

It's probably 1" x 24tpi if it's a more recent bike. Older bikes might
be French or British thread. Check the Harris Cyclery pages if you
have doubts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll probably find that the cost of the appropriate tools to cut the
steerer threads is more than you're willing to bear for your "beater bike".

I've already got a tap and die set, just no die in that size. If I knew
what the threads were, I'd price the die and then make the decision.

Here's a selection:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=594510960559&c=Tools&sc=Fork&tc=Column%20Threading%20Dies
or
http://tinyurl.com/2zd2a

Cheap dies are about $20- but they're only good for chasing existing
threads. It may still be better to have new threads cut at the local
bike shop.

Jeff

If the adjusting race has bottomed on the available threads, but is
very close to working, one non-cutting option might be to find a
taller cups, one with much more stack height. The thread is 1-inch x
24 tpi for one-inch columns. Park Tool does make a die and handle
set: http://www.parktool.com/tools/FTS_1.shtml

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Hey David,

I'd agree with Alex et al. It's probably best just to take it to a bike
shop and let them cuts some threads. It's easier than the alternatives and
it'll likely only cost $10-$15. The die is a huge affair and quite costly.
And you'll likely never use it again! Even an old pro like me would suck it
up and take it to a shop rather than buy the die. And it's not worth
fudging around with headsets..just cut it and be done with it.

Cheers!

Scott..

On Wed, 12 May 2004 08:03:43 -0400, David Kerber

ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

If you think you have the tools and know-how to cut these threads, you
should also have the tools and know-how to measure the threads
yourself. Since you had to ask here, I would recommend paying someone
else to do it.

Quoted message said:

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.
I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

Mark Hickey said:

The die will be quite expensive. Consider simply installing a spacer
under the top nut.

A regular USA 1" x 24 die is $6.84 Umpiloted. (J+L
Industrial, DIE-12883M)

If his top race can't go down far enough, a headset with
more lower stack is one solution. Paying a frame service
shop $25 or $30 for a little longer thread may be a better
value than buying an unpiloted die - which will drift even
over a couple of threads.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net
says...

Quoted message said:

I've already got a tap and die set, just no die in that size. If I knew
what the threads were, I'd price the die and then make the decision.

Alex Rodriguez said:

the cutter is the most expensive part. Also, are you sure you tap and die
set has the proper size handle to hold such a large die?

It is a standard 2" handle - as a plumber would use. The
handle ($20) is more than the die ($7) but both are cheap.

A piloted system by Campagnolo, Silva, Cobra, Zeus or even
VAR is expensive indeed. I know because I own all of those.
Generally in the $300 to $400 range - each!

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tools.html
sixth and seventh photos show these tools.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article <[email hidden]>, David Kerber

ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

What are the standard threads (the ones on the outside of the steerer
tube) for an older-style threaded headset? I'm putting together a
beater bike, and I can't quite get all the wiggle out of the fork when
it's installed and the headset is tightened down as far as it will go.
Another 1/8" of threads would do it, though, so I plan on buying a die
and cutting a bit more length of threads.

I've checked the bearings and races, and they are in decent shape.

The die will be quite expensive. Consider simply installing a spacer
under the top nut.

? I've trouble visualizing that.

Quoted message said:

What would that be, just a large washer? I don't see how that would
help: the top threaded race (the one with the knurled edge) is
bottoming out on the threads before it takes up all the play in the
headset. The locknut on top of it still has some room, though. Maybe a
spacer under the bottom race to raise it up just a bit?

I wouldn't go that route. It's beneficial to have the crown race seated
firmly onto the fork steerer and placing a spacer/washer beneath the
race leaves less of the steerer tube crown race seat available to the
crown race.

My recommendation: If you only require a few millimeters of thread,
swap out the headset (either both headset cups or just one) with
another having a higher stack height. Typically, headsets with roller
bearings in the lower cup have greater stack heights than those using
balls in boths cups. I"ve had occasion to resort to this solution in
the past and it's worked well. It's definitely preferable to cutting
extra threads.

luke

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net
says...

Quoted message said:

I've already got a tap and die set, just no die in that size. If I knew
what the threads were, I'd price the die and then make the decision.

the cutter is the most expensive part. Also, are you sure you tap and die
set has the proper size handle to hold such a large die?

Since the threads are already there and I'd just be cutting them a
little further down the tube, a 12" crescent wrench would be fine (you
couldn't start new threads that way, though).

However, since my LBS only wants $12 to do this job, I've decided not to
bother with the die. Even if I could find one, which is looking
doubtful right now, it would cost around $20.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

A Muzi said:

It is a standard 2" handle - as a plumber would use. The
handle ($20) is more than the die ($7) but both are cheap.

Where do you get fork thread dies that cheap? And is that only for
1"-24 or also for 1-1/8"-26?

Chalo Colina

-snip my erroneous prices, sorry-

Chalo said:

Where do you get fork thread dies that cheap? And is that only for
1"-24 or also for 1-1/8"-26?

J + L Industrial, the place I've been buying drill bits,
files, emery, taps, cutting fluid, lathe tools, air tools,
burrs, blades, chucks, etc for twenty five years. We get
overnight delivery from a local warehouse and open billing.
2000 page catalog that you'd probably use, Chalo.

http://www.jlindustrial.com/

I erred by not reading over to the proper column on page 219.

The die is $30, part number DSP76550C. The handle DHO18507C
is $7.07.

Back to Mr Kerber's problem.

I own such a die and a handle for it. Useless for this. It's
nearly impossible to cut new threads on a bicycle fork as
the tool wants to drift to the side . The 'bike' brands ( I
also own Campagnolo, VAR, Zeus, Silva and Cobra) are
expensive specialty tools which are piloted to stay centered.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971