Tune-Up Quality

sounds like a crappy shop. good luck

david

"T Scanlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't

trim

Quoted message said:

properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)

Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't get

a

Quoted message said:

chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it still had

the

Quoted message said:

same problem and front der had the little bit of slight film on the der
pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't convinced they did
anything.

I took it back to the shop and wanked about it. They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something

must

Quoted message said:

have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand, putzed
around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a quick

spin

Quoted message said:

and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about

3-4

Quoted message said:

rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage.

When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD have
without chain noise.)

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

In article <[email hidden]>,

T Scanlin said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't trim
properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)

Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't get a
chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it still had the
same problem and front der had the little bit of slight film on the der
pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't convinced they did
anything.

I took it back to the shop and wanked about it.

You what?! I wonder if we have the same idea of what that means.

Quoted message said:

They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something must
have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand, putzed
around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a quick spin
and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about 3-4
rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage.

When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD have
without chain noise.)

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

I don't know No. Detroit shops but I know the guys at 2 Wheel Tango in
Ann Arbor and I think they know what to do.

Frankly I would still call the owner and tell them you aren't happy,
make an appointment to have the bike looked at and tell them you
want it fixed to YOUR satisfaction or your money returned. If they
don't like that idea then they need to understand how many friends
and club members you are going to tell about their incompetence.
40 would be a good start. If they don't like that then make it 60.

--Paul

T Scanlin said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't
trim properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)
Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't
get a chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it
still had the same problem and front der had the little bit of slight
film on the der pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't
convinced they did anything.
I took it back to the shop and wanked about it. They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something
must have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand,
putzed around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a
quick spin and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I
had about 3-4 rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from
hitting either the inner/outer part of the cage.
When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD
have without chain noise.)
Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple
that difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern
Detroit burbs?

I don't know Detroit burbs but is Northville or Troy in reach? I am
thinking of REI. They use a document for bicycle preparation and for
service. The technician that works on the bicycle checks each item and
then signs off on the work. I know this because I did it in a Chicago
burb store. I am sure that there are others that do as good a job and
also document their work. I run Ultegra derailers on my latest touring
bicycle, but not with STI. I have the index adjustments set for crisp
shifts in all ranges. I can rid the noise with friction adjustments in
extreme cross chains. I have rather long chain stays though and I am not
using an Ultegra crank. It could be that your Ultegra STI is wearing,
but i wouldn't give up until I get a straight answer.

--

it's hard to beat mail order, a good set of tools, and a good book; if
I had depended on my LBS for service my interest in riding would not be
nearly as high, it would have just been less fuss to get addicted to
running or swimming instead.

I had no problem supporting my LBS, but all I get in return was slow
crappy service and expensive part costs. So you say I should find a
better shop....a better shop located far away....but some people forget
that the extra distance is inconvenience and time is money.

T Scanlin said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't trim
properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)

Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't get a
chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it still had the
same problem and front der had the little bit of slight film on the der
pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't convinced they did
anything.

I took it back to the shop and wanked about it. They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something must
have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand, putzed
around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a quick spin
and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about 3-4
rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage.

When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD have
without chain noise.)

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

T Scanlin said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.

....snip...

General maintenance is readily performed with a few simple tools and a
manual.

Quoted message said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't

trim

Quoted message said:

properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)

Could be a definition problem. There is no "trim" function in the large
chainring on an Ultegra triple; it only has one position. The middle and
inside (small) chainrings are the only ones in which you can "trim" the
front derailleur.

Quoted message said:

Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't get

a

Quoted message said:

chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it still had

the

Quoted message said:

same problem and front der had the little bit of slight film on the der
pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't convinced they did
anything.

Pivot points on a derailleur don't usually need much (if any) lube during a
normal tune-up. If anything they might need to be wiped down.
Current-style front derailleurs rarely, if ever, display wear or have much
friction on their pivots. OK, the short story- I don't think the lack of
lube evidence on the front derailleur is an indication of the overall
quality of the tune-up.

Quoted message said:

I took it back to the shop and wanked about it. They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something

must

Quoted message said:

have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand, putzed
around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a quick

spin

Quoted message said:

and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about

3-4

Quoted message said:

rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage.

For the inside & middle chainrings, 3-4 gear changes before needing to trim
the front derailleur would be about right. But if you're saying that you're
unable to get rid of chain/derailleur scraping in the middle & small
chainrings even after trimming... then it's not set up properly.

Quoted message said:

When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD have
without chain noise.)

Chain noise is almost always going to be quieter on a new bike, due to the
heavy lube that comes on the chain.

Quoted message said:

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

The Ultegra triple with STI requires a bit more than just a by-the-book
technique for adjustment. It takes a while to get the hang of how
everything interacts, and to get away from the idea that cable tension isn't
something to pay much attention to (when it's in the small front chainring).
But it's not rocket science either, and a mechanic who has set up a number
of them should have a pretty good feel for how it works.

It *is*quite different from the double version, because there's no trim
adjustment for the largest chainring (which the double does have).

But I still don't have enough information to evaluate what's really going on
here, since you implied that the derailleur doesn't trim properly in the
largest chainring... and in reality, it doesn't trim at all in that
position. And I'm also not sure what you're saying about its ability to not
make noise in more than 3-4 rear cog changes (specifically, whether that's
the case with or without using trim).
-
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

T Scanlin-<< I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't trim
properly but otherwise everything was fine. >><BR><BR>
<< I took it for a quick spin
and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about 3-4
rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage. >><BR><BR>

<< Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

It is not that hard, just sounds like the wrench isn't all that skilled at
adjusting this sometimes finicky design. Take it back, explain the problem
completley, expect it to be done right, to your satisfaction.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't

trim

Quoted message said:

properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)

Could be a definition problem. There is no "trim" function in the large
chainring on an Ultegra triple; it only has one position. The middle and
inside (small) chainrings are the only ones in which you can "trim" the
front derailleur.

Quoted message said:

Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't get

a

Quoted message said:

chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it still had

the

Quoted message said:

same problem and front der had the little bit of slight film on the der
pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't convinced they did
anything.

Pivot points on a derailleur don't usually need much (if any) lube during a
normal tune-up. If anything they might need to be wiped down.
Current-style front derailleurs rarely, if ever, display wear or have much
friction on their pivots. OK, the short story- I don't think the lack of
lube evidence on the front derailleur is an indication of the overall
quality of the tune-up.

Quoted message said:

I took it back to the shop and wanked about it. They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something

must

Quoted message said:

have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand, putzed
around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a quick

spin

Quoted message said:

and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about

3-4

Quoted message said:

rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage.

For the inside & middle chainrings, 3-4 gear changes before needing to trim
the front derailleur would be about right. But if you're saying that you're
unable to get rid of chain/derailleur scraping in the middle & small
chainrings even after trimming... then it's not set up properly.

Quoted message said:

When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD have
without chain noise.)

Chain noise is almost always going to be quieter on a new bike, due to the
heavy lube that comes on the chain.

Quoted message said:

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

The Ultegra triple with STI requires a bit more than just a by-the-book
technique for adjustment. It takes a while to get the hang of how
everything interacts, and to get away from the idea that cable tension isn't
something to pay much attention to (when it's in the small front chainring).
But it's not rocket science either, and a mechanic who has set up a number
of them should have a pretty good feel for how it works.

It *is*quite different from the double version, because there's no trim
adjustment for the largest chainring (which the double does have).

But I still don't have enough information to evaluate what's really going on
here, since you implied that the derailleur doesn't trim properly in the
largest chainring... and in reality, it doesn't trim at all in that
position. And I'm also not sure what you're saying about its ability to not
make noise in more than 3-4 rear cog changes (specifically, whether that's
the case with or without using trim).

Did you tune-up include a new chain? If not, get one, Shimano please.

Hi, Naturally, we all have varying degrees of mechanical expertise on
bikes.

If you haven't ever crashed the bike, and things look basically the
same as they did when new, you should be able to check front
derailleur movment, and the travel limits without too much hassle, and
even see what's going on, without the use of a bike stand.

Do you notice a stiff movement of this part? Maybe riding in rain has
siezed up things a bit , and you are not getting full travel of the
derailleur. (Or your derailleur cable is going to hell?) Other
considerations would be the STI Shifter itself not lettting you trim
out the deraileur far enough?

Throw the derailleur all the way out, and see if it is indeed hitting
the stops. Do a visual inspection yourself. I know I'm only guessing
here, so please forgive me if I'm going off track here (No pun
intended)

I have no idea what kind of money you have thrown at this local dealer
for this minor repair/adjustment, but if you have become unhappy with
thier service, and they seem to not give a [censored] about you, and your
bike, chalk them up as a small loss, and take a peek in your phone
book for another good dealer in your area. Hopefully, somone in this
group lives close, and can recommend one for you.

It certainly DOESN'T have to be a Trek Dealer to do this sort of work
on your own personal Trek Bike. Virtually all high end bike Shops
nowadays all handle and service Shimano components. Hope this helps
some, and best of luck getting your bike back up to snuff. Mark

Richard Chan said:

Did you tune-up include a new chain? If not, get one, Shimano please.

I'd be interested in your reasoning for that. In my experience, SRAM
chains work just as well as Shimano, and replacing a chain that isn't
worn out accomplishes nothing at all.

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you tune-up include a new chain? If not, get one, Shimano please.

I'd be interested in your reasoning for that. In my experience, SRAM
chains work just as well as Shimano, and replacing a chain that isn't
worn out accomplishes nothing at all.

Actually, that brings up a very good point. You'd be amazed how many
front-shifting problems are magically cured by replacing an SRAM chain with
Shimano. SRAM chains don't seem to "catch" as quickly on an upshift as the
Shimano chains do. Rear shifting doesn't seem to matter, but front shifting
can definitely be an issue with non-Shimano chains.

For what it's worth, I'm the guinea pig for new chain testing at the shop,
and have found a couple that come close, but, so far, nothing quite as good
as the Shimano. Too bad, since the Shimano chain is quite a bit pricier
(although, when you can find them, an HG53 is a pretty cheap 9-speed Shimano
chain).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Thanks for the comments. Bottom line, took the bike to a different shop
today. Within 10 minutes I was out the door with a "pretty darned close to
new" feeling drivetrain.

The SRAM chain comments were interesting, sound like most folks have better
luck with the Shimano.

I generally do all my own work on my cheapie mountain bike but I'm hesitant
to toast the Ultegra.

Thanks to all for the insight.
Tom
"T Scanlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had my LBS tune my Trek 2300 /Ultegra triple and I'm not a happy
camper.When I originally took it in, I mentioned the front der wouldn't

trim

Quoted message said:

properly but otherwise everything was fine. (I told them the large
ring/small cog combo chain hit the outer part of the cage.)

Of course, when I picked it up it was raining like a bear so I didn't get

a

Quoted message said:

chance to ride it and check it out.. The next day I noticed it still had

the

Quoted message said:

same problem and front der had the little bit of slight film on the der
pivot points, exactly like when I took it on. I wasn't convinced they did
anything.

I took it back to the shop and wanked about it. They mentioned the first
tech had to leave and passed it to someone else to finish and something

must

Quoted message said:

have gotten overlooked. So, the chief tech threw it in a stand, putzed
around for a few minutes and pronounced it ready. I took it for a quick

spin

Quoted message said:

and pronounced it NOT ready. Basically, for each front ring I had about

3-4

Quoted message said:

rear cogs that were usable without chain noise from hitting either the
inner/outer part of the cage.

When new, I don't remember any chain noise that couldn't be trimmed out,
even with severe cross chain combos. (I didn't cross chain but COULD have
without chain noise.)

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult? Anyone recommend a quality shop in the northern Detroit burbs?

T Scanlin said:

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult?

No. I, a rank amateur (at best), did a fine job replacing my 105
double crank & derailer with Ultegra triple. I got it perfect in
under an hour. Works beautifully. I did it according to Barnett's,
the Shimano installation page that came with the parts, and
sheldonbrown.com.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

T Scanlin said:

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult?

No. I, a rank amateur (at best), did a fine job replacing my 105
double crank & derailer with Ultegra triple. I got it perfect in
under an hour. Works beautifully. I did it according to Barnett's,
the Shimano installation page that came with the parts, and
sheldonbrown.com.
--
Rick Onanian

sounds like me - 10 hours reading, 1 hour wrenching.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you tune-up include a new chain? If not, get one, Shimano please.

I'd be interested in your reasoning for that. In my experience, SRAM
chains work just as well as Shimano, and replacing a chain that isn't
worn out accomplishes nothing at all.

Actually, that brings up a very good point. You'd be amazed how many
front-shifting problems are magically cured by replacing an SRAM chain

with

Quoted message said:

Shimano. SRAM chains don't seem to "catch" as quickly on an upshift as

the

Quoted message said:

Shimano chains do. Rear shifting doesn't seem to matter, but front

shifting

Quoted message said:

can definitely be an issue with non-Shimano chains.

For what it's worth, I'm the guinea pig for new chain testing at the shop,
and have found a couple that come close, but, so far, nothing quite as

good

Quoted message said:

as the Shimano. Too bad, since the Shimano chain is quite a bit pricier
(although, when you can find them, an HG53 is a pretty cheap 9-speed

Shimano

Quoted message said:

chain).

Interestingly, although not recommended by either shimano or sram, I mix -
shimano chain with sram power link, works well for me! I also hear the
wipperman connex link works with the shimano chain too!

Bruce Graham said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

T Scanlin said:

Am I expecting too much from the LBS? Is tuning an Ultegra triple that
difficult?

No. I, a rank amateur (at best), did a fine job replacing my 105
double crank & derailer with Ultegra triple. I got it perfect in
under an hour. Works beautifully. I did it according to Barnett's,
the Shimano installation page that came with the parts, and
sheldonbrown.com.
--
Rick Onanian

sounds like me - 10 hours reading, 1 hour wrenching.

teach a man to fish

ari said:

teach a man to fish

....and soon his house will stink?

Bill "conclusions" S.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:07:38 GMT, "Sorni" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

ari said:

teach a man to fish

...and soon his house will stink?

In my case, my girlfriend's grandparents' house. I don't eat fish, I
just like to catch them.

I like Sheldon's tagline:
If you give a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day. If you set a man
on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Quoted message said:

Bill "conclusions" S.

How about a conclusion on this: How long can a pickerel stay alive
out of water? My fishing buddy caught one, but didn't want it, so I
threw it on ice with my catches for my gf's grandparents...and a few
hours later, it was still breathing.
--
Rick Onanian

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth, I'm the guinea pig for new chain testing at the shop,
and have found a couple that come close, but, so far, nothing quite as good
as the Shimano. Too bad, since the Shimano chain is quite a bit pricier
(although, when you can find them, an HG53 is a pretty cheap 9-speed Shimano
chain).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Hi, I have found Shimano chains, in my case the DA-7701, to have a
real wide price spread. Online the list price seems to be $28.99, but
can be found for $21.99 and I just picked up a spare for $19.99. My
LBS has them priced at $39.99. I had some Christmas GCs and wanted a
tutorial on installation, so I bought one from the LBS, with my "good
guy" discount I got it for $36. With the installation and install
lesson, I was ok with the higher price, but this is another example of
where I just can't afford to give my LBS the business regularly.
I think at around $22 they are a good value. What is the true list
price?
Life is Good!
Jeff