coloured cycle lanes

Quoted message said:

I know there are some colonials on this list and, in any case, most of
the wrongheadedness posted here isn't specifically Antipodean.

http://www.abc.dotars.gov.au/green_bicycle_lanes.htm

The link explains why coloured cycle lanes are A Very Good Thing (The
authors seem to really believe this in good faith)

Got to the limitations of coloured cycle lanes but it focused exclusively
on the limitations of colour, rather than cycle lanes. I suppose that's
logical really. They use the word pavement to refer to the road surface
which confused me for a while - I thought they were just talking about
pavemnt lanes at first.

I'm fairly neutral about the provision of on road cycle lanes. They can
be useful for filtering through traffic when they're not blocked, but
they tend to disappear at junctions anyway. Apart from that they seem
mostly redundant - it's not like they make cars pass with more room -
because you're in your lane they don't seem to move right at all. I
think it effectively means you're riding in the gutter position even when
you're at the extreme right of the lane.

I'm not sure how they make it less threatening for cyclists to ride
either. The article suggested that they make it clear that the cyclist
is allowed on the road, but I tend to think cycle lanes make it less
obvious that cyclists are allowed in areas of the road not covered by the
lane.

It goes without saying that pavement cycle lanes are horrible little
things if you want to go more than very slow or don't like stopping for
every blasted junction and constantly give way to dopey pedestrians[1].
Occasionally useful if they provide a shortcut but other than that only
useful for adults who can't ride on the road safely or kids that aren't
allowed.

[1] I do find it hard not to walk on the 'pretty' pavement tho, so I can
see why they do it.

james said:

I know there are some colonials on this list and, in any case, most of
the wrongheadedness posted here isn't specifically Antipodean.

http://www.abc.dotars.gov.au/green_bicycle_lanes.htm

The link explains why coloured cycle lanes are A Very Good Thing ...

This is pretty much received wisdom among transport planners in London.

Of note is that the research seems to compare coloured cycle lanes
with uncoloured ones - not with no lane at all.

Colin McKenzie

--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

Regardless of whether cycles lanes are ever a Good Thing at all, the
"colouring" (in London at least) is achieved by using a rougher grade of
tarmac. This considerably increases rolling resistance. Great!! Not.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Bike lanes help define road space, provide cyclists with a path free
of obstruction

and somewhere for people to park their cars

Quoted message said:

encourage cyclists to ride in the correct roadway position

in the gutter, where cyclists belong

Quoted message said:

and indicate to motorists that cyclists have a right to be on the
road.

Er... no.

Quoted message said:

Studies have shown that well designed bicycle facilities
encourage appropriate behaviour and reduce the likelihood of crashes.2

Experience has shown that well designed bicycle facilities are few and far
between.

d.

Colin Blackburn said:

Pete Biggs said:

Regardless of whether cycles lanes are ever a Good Thing at all, the
"colouring" (in London at least) is achieved by using a rougher
grade of tarmac. This considerably increases rolling resistance.
Great!! Not.

In Oxford, the only place I have seen coloured lanes being coloured,
it is not rougher tarmac but an additional coating of (a synthetic
looking) grit glue to the underlying black tarmac.

AFAIK they do this here in London Town Devine too. Certainly they do with
the red bus lanes - you could tell with the one on London Bridge coz the
stuff came off during the summers of 2002 AND 2003.

Not much risk of it doing that /this/ year. Bah!

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

Pete Biggs said:

Regardless of whether cycles lanes are ever a Good Thing at all, the
"colouring" (in London at least) is achieved by using a rougher grade of
tarmac. This considerably increases rolling resistance. Great!! Not.

In Oxford, the only place I have seen coloured lanes being coloured, it is
not rougher tarmac but an additional coating of (a synthetic looking) grit
glue to the underlying black tarmac.

Colin

Dave Larrington said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Regardless of whether cycles lanes are ever a Good Thing at all, the
"colouring" (in London at least) is achieved by using a rougher
grade of tarmac. This considerably increases rolling resistance.
Great!! Not.

In Oxford, the only place I have seen coloured lanes being coloured,
it is not rougher tarmac but an additional coating of (a synthetic
looking) grit glue to the underlying black tarmac.

AFAIK they do this here in London Town Devine too. Certainly they do
with the red bus lanes - you could tell with the one on London Bridge
coz the stuff came off during the summers of 2002 AND 2003.

What ever it is, it's slower to ride on than "normal" road :-( ...after
it's been down for some time at least (can feel smooth when freshly laid).

~PB

"Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote:
( In Oxford, the only place I have seen coloured lanes being coloured, it is
) not rougher tarmac but an additional coating of (a synthetic looking) grit
( glue to the underlying black tarmac.

There are red (bus) lanes in Oxford that are coloured tarmac, and there
used to be green (cycle) lanes that were coloured tarmac (in the middle
of the northern end of St Giles'😉 but those were abandoned when they
broke up and are now uncoloured. Most of the green lanes and some of
the red lanes are painted granite chippings applied as tar-and-chippings
on top of the road surface. (I know the green kryptonite is painted
granite because I did some experiments with a big hammer and a little
hand-lens: it's covered in something silvery and then in something green.)
The elephant-grey stealth surface and the yellowish surface used for
roughening up the approaches to lights is glued on with something
distinctly yellow, and it comes off in great flat plates, at least when
applied to placews where the asphalt is regularly wet.

Why is it a hand lens if you have to use it with your eye?

Geraint Jones said:

roughening up the approaches to lights is glued on with something
distinctly yellow, and it comes off in great flat plates, at least when
applied to placews where the asphalt is regularly wet.

We need a geologist or a geographer here.
Isn't it freeze/thaw action which does that?

"Colin McKenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

james said:

I know there are some colonials on this list and, in any case,

most of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the wrongheadedness posted here isn't specifically Antipodean.

http://www.abc.dotars.gov.au/green_bicycle_lanes.htm

The link explains why coloured cycle lanes are A Very Good Thing

....

Quoted message said:

This is pretty much received wisdom among transport planners in

London.

Quoted message said:

Of note is that the research seems to compare coloured cycle lanes
with uncoloured ones - not with no lane at all.

Colin McKenzie

Well, it's a general principle in traffic engineering that, in order
to minimise ugliness and distractions, you should have as few signs
and markings as possible.

Specifically, it's a principle that coloured paving should be rare,
reserved for where special emphasis is needed.

In other words, if a scheme needs Technicolor, it's pretty much a
sign that it has already failed, or would fail, in black-and-white.
You should look on the paint as a warning from the traffic
engineers - green for danger.

I suppose I should go off and look at the drawings in chapter 6 of
London's draft "Design Standards for Cycling in London" to see how
often they recommend green paint, but frankly I can't face that right
now

Jeremy Parker

The fact that green is now spreading onto a higher and higher
fraction of our bike lanes, so much so that it is essentially routine
now, tells us something, I think.

Jeremy Parker

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bike lanes help define road space, provide cyclists with a path free
of obstruction

and somewhere for people to park their cars

Quoted message said:

encourage cyclists to ride in the correct roadway position

in the gutter, where cyclists belong

Quoted message said:

and indicate to motorists that cyclists have a right to be on the
road.

Er... no.

Quoted message said:

Studies have shown that well designed bicycle facilities
encourage appropriate behaviour and reduce the likelihood of

crashes.2

Quoted message said:

Experience has shown that well designed bicycle facilities are few and

far

Quoted message said:

between.

d.

I'm colour-blind - we have coloured lanes here in Edinburgh called
Greenways but I don't know where they are!

Geoff Pearson [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I'm colour-blind - we have coloured lanes here in Edinburgh called
Greenways but I don't know where they are!

Leith walk. Princes Street. Dalkeith Road. There are definately others
but I can't remember where. They are green, but often have sections of
red cycle track connecting them. Other than for aesthetic reasons, does
anyone know why some cycle lanes are red, and other's green?

Jon

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I'm colour-blind - we have coloured lanes here in Edinburgh called
Greenways but I don't know where they are!

Leith walk. Princes Street. Dalkeith Road. There are definately others
but I can't remember where. They are green, but often have sections of
red cycle track connecting them. Other than for aesthetic reasons,

does

Quoted message said:

anyone know why some cycle lanes are red, and other's green?

Jon

But how I am supposed to know when I am on one? Green tarmac is the
same colour as the ordinary stuff - grey/blue/purple. I presume red is
the light-coloured gritty stuff.

Geoff Pearson [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

But how I am supposed to know when I am on one? Green tarmac is the
same colour as the ordinary stuff - grey/blue/purple. I presume red is
the light-coloured gritty stuff.

Sorry. Didn't quite get that! If you mean, how do you avoid them when
driving, they are usually signed and will have a picture of a bike /
"Bus, cycle taxi" written on them. If you mean, how do you know when
you're on a bike, does it matter?

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Leith walk. Princes Street. Dalkeith Road. There are definately others
but I can't remember where. They are green, but often have sections of
red cycle track connecting them. Other than for aesthetic reasons,
does anyone know why some cycle lanes are red, and other's green?

Green is the new red.

~PB

"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Geoff Pearson [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

But how I am supposed to know when I am on one? Green tarmac is the
same colour as the ordinary stuff - grey/blue/purple. I presume red

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the light-coloured gritty stuff.

Sorry. Didn't quite get that! If you mean, how do you avoid them when
driving, they are usually signed and will have a picture of a bike /
"Bus, cycle taxi" written on them. If you mean, how do you know when
you're on a bike, does it matter?

Jon

If so, why colour them?

Pete Biggs [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Jon Senior said:

Leith walk. Princes Street. Dalkeith Road. There are definately others
but I can't remember where. They are green, but often have sections of
red cycle track connecting them. Other than for aesthetic reasons,
does anyone know why some cycle lanes are red, and other's green?

Green is the new red.

Worthy of the gnome methinks!

Jon

Geoff Pearson [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

If so, why colour them?

From the top :-)

They are coloured to make them more obvious. You are unable to see the
colour, but are aware that they exist, thus I described a way in which
you could identify them in the absense of colour.

Jon

What makes them coloured ? Is chips of recycled plastic ? The bus/bike lanes
in Leeds are red.