*This* close

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

Quoted message said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

Why 2 hours? How long is the TT?

Quoted message said:

b. I lent my wet-weather gear to a friend who came over last night so he
could get home dry

You won't want to be wearing wet weather gear on a time trial, getting
wet will be the least of your problems :-) Maybe just for getting there
though eh?

Quoted message said:

So, bugger it, going to wait one week. There's another trial next Sat.

Mm, me thinks you didn't really want to go anyway :-)

God luck next week.

--
Mark (MSA)
This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling
of contents may have occurred during transmission

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

Quoted message said:

Why 2 hours? How long is the TT?

14 miles.

I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding. I go from
about 20 to about 25.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

b. I lent my wet-weather gear to a friend who came over last night so he
could get home dry

You won't want to be wearing wet weather gear on a time trial, getting
wet will be the least of your problems :-) Maybe just for getting there
though eh?

Wet-weather gear in this case just means a goretex jacket. It's not
just about the rain, it's about keeping warm and breaking the wind
chill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, bugger it, going to wait one week. There's another trial next Sat.

Mm, me thinks you didn't really want to go anyway :-)

No, I really wanted to go. But *properly*, and that means warm-up.

Quoted message said:

God luck next week.

Merci. If I win, I'll buy everyone in u.r.c. a chocolate cigar 🙂

--
Callas

Callas said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

However, rain stopped play. It hammered down at about the time I wanted
to leave to warm up - torrential rain plus hail plus fecking lightning.

I had to turn up because it was an inter-club (we won). Torrential
rain, roads like rivers, burst drains and a howling gale. I did 28:35
on a Thorn Nomad (about 34lb with mudguards, rack, lights...), which I
thought was actually rather good.

Callas said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up
b. I lent my wet-weather gear to a friend who came over last night so he
could get home dry

I think you are already close to achieving a personal best.
TT'ers make an art of excuses ;-)

John B

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding. I go from
: about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for anyone I'd have
thought.

30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy, 2 mins race
pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace, potter to start.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

JohnB said:

Arthur Clune said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding. I go from
: about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for anyone I'd have
thought.

And easily carried out by riding the bike to the start instead of
clamping it to one of those tin polluting thingummies :-)

Now where are those sprint carriers?

John B

Interesting reading this. I've found I need at least 30-60 mines to get
warmed up properly, and 30 mins to re-warm after a half an hour stop.
(Not that I'm into TT's - yet *grin* - just for normal rides, I find the
first 30-60 mins hard work normally).

Having said that, I *have* noticed if I ride for 20-30 mins then take a
break for 5-10, I can then zip off fine. Which seems odd - do I
actually warm up faster if I stretch the legs (most cycling is hard work
on the legs while warming up unless I pootle at about 6-7mph) for a
short while then break for a few mins? If I ride through it, the body
really complains, I don't have quite the same oomph in the legs
(relatively speaking!) as later in the ride, and it takes a lot longer
for that to kick in.

I thought it was just down to me being unfit, but maybe not!

--

Velvet

Arthur Clune said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding. I go from
: about 20 to about 25.
:

How have you tested this? I suppose you've tried warming up for 15 mins
and then measured your speed and then repeated the test after 30 min
warm-up, 45 min warm-up etc?

Quoted message said:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for anyone I'd have
thought.

30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy, 2 mins race
pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace, potter to start.

Arthur

Quite. Lance suggests about 60 mins warm-up for TTs. I would think that
this is too much for many people who don't have his level of fitness unless
they keep it very easy. There must be a balance between warming up and
getting too tired before the event starts. It also depends on the length
of the TT.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever
they go." -Oscar Wilde
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Arthur Clune said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding. I go from
: about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for anyone I'd have
thought.

And easily carried out by riding the bike to the start instead of
clamping it to one of those tin polluting thingummies :-)

Now where are those sprint carriers?

John B

Quoted message said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding. I go from
: about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for anyone I'd have
thought.

30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy, 2 mins race
pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace, potter to start.

It might be that I take my time warming up - I don't push it,
particularly; I let my body get there by itself.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>
:> 30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy, 2 mins race
:> pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace, potter to start.

: It might be that I take my time warming up - I don't push it,
: particularly; I let my body get there by itself.

If you want to do a TT, then you need to warm up well, and that means
efforts at race pace + some hard enough to get the lacitic acid flowing
(starts the body clearing latic).

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Callas said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

That will deplete all your muscle glycogen. I ride to the start (15-20
mins) then do some stretches. Then I'm off.

Quoted message said:

Callas said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

That will deplete all your muscle glycogen. I ride to the start (15-20
mins) then do some stretches. Then I'm off.

I find, when riding, that my speed increases over time, until about two
hours have passed, then I'm holding down 52/14, which is my best current
sustainable performance. I cannot hold that down until that much time
riding has passed. If I rode 15/20 minutes and then tried to go fast I
would not match the performance I exhibit after two hours of riding.

--
Callas

Callas said:

I find, when riding, that my speed increases over time, until about two
hours have passed, then I'm holding down 52/14, which is my best current
sustainable performance. I cannot hold that down until that much time
riding has passed. If I rode 15/20 minutes and then tried to go fast I
would not match the performance I exhibit after two hours of riding.

I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but you certainly
are going badly wrong somewhere.

How hard do you ride in this "warm up"? What sort of times do you manage
for a 10 and 25?

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

Quoted message said:

Callas wrote:

Quoted message said:

I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but you certainly
are going badly wrong somewhere.

Or maybe I'm different?

Quoted message said:

How hard do you ride in this "warm up"?

Progressively harder, which is why I get faster.

Quoted message said:

What sort of times do you manage
for a 10 and 25?

Never done a TT.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote:
:> Callas wrote:

:> I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but you certainly
:> are going badly wrong somewhere.

: Or maybe I'm different?

Maybe, but there's a huge amount of knowledge out there about how to approach
10-25 mile TT's are your approach is way, way different.

:> How hard do you ride in this "warm up"?

: Progressively harder, which is why I get faster.

I'd be very interested in seeing how you go for a TT after doing your
two hours and after doing no more than one hour but with a much more
controlled set of changes in intensity.

People are indeed different, but when you are doing something so very
different to the accepted best practice, I'd wonder.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Quoted message said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote:
:> Callas wrote:

:> I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but you certainly
:> are going badly wrong somewhere.

: Or maybe I'm different?

Maybe, but there's a huge amount of knowledge out there about how to approach
10-25 mile TT's are your approach is way, way different.

*grin*

It hardly so sophisticated as to be an approach. Next Thursday, when I
do the next TT, I'll be warming up for the first time ever. Warming up
for two hours is simply the best method I yet know of.

Quoted message said:

:> How hard do you ride in this "warm up"?

: Progressively harder, which is why I get faster.

I'd be very interested in seeing how you go for a TT after doing your
two hours and after doing no more than one hour but with a much more
controlled set of changes in intensity.

Me too. I'd have to get used to the riding that intensity early in a
ride; I don't normally do that till some time has passed.

Quoted message said:

People are indeed different, but when you are doing something so very
different to the accepted best practice, I'd wonder.

Don't worry - I don't think this is the best or right approach; it's
merely where I'm starting from.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Me too. I'd have to get used to the riding that intensity early in a
: ride; I don't normally do that till some time has passed.

It's hard and feels unpleasant. THat's racing. What happens for me is that
if I warm up (30 mins easy, 3 mins hard, some easy, 2-3 mins hard again
then maybe a third set of 2-3 mins hard and easy) the first time I go
hard its unpleasant, I can't get my intensinty right up and I don't go
that quick. Second and third times get better. After that it impacts
on the TT.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Quoted message said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Me too. I'd have to get used to the riding that intensity early in a
: ride; I don't normally do that till some time has passed.

It's hard and feels unpleasant. THat's racing. What happens for me is that
if I warm up (30 mins easy, 3 mins hard, some easy, 2-3 mins hard again
then maybe a third set of 2-3 mins hard and easy) the first time I go
hard its unpleasant, I can't get my intensinty right up and I don't go
that quick. Second and third times get better. After that it impacts
on the TT.

That sounds like my experience. During the course of a long ride, there
come periods of hard exertion, and after some have passed, the muscles
are good to go.

On other matters, I visited your web-site. I didn't know you were into
the C language, Arthur. I'm dedicated to the language; I started in
about 1992, shortly after ANSI C was published.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: On other matters, I visited your web-site. I didn't know you were into
: the C language, Arthur. I'm dedicated to the language; I started in
: about 1992, shortly after ANSI C was published.

C and Perl. I started C about the same time as you then. These days it's
mainly perl though

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook