which lid?

davek said:

I could, for example, take the view that they're all rubbish anyway so if
I'm going to spend money, I might as well spend as little as possible and
just buy the cheapest/nicest colour/one with most air vents/fits most
comfortably...

"fits most comfortably" is generally a sign of fitting /well/, and if it
fits well it will be able to do its stuff optimally. For "nicest
colour" take bright/light and preferably reflective to a degree, as that
could help you be seen and may help you not be in an accident to start with.

Quoted message said:

Or I could consider that although no helmet is designed to save my life if
I'm run over by a cement mixer, some helmets *are* better than others, so I
ought to buy the best helmet available...

Though of course "best" does require a good fit. Helmets work by
absorbing energy of impact and both deforming and passing "leftover"
energy to as wide a surface area as possible to reduce pressure points.
If the fit isn't snug, that won't happen and the lid won't work as
designed, so whatever standards it's been tested to would probably be
irrelevant.

Quoted message said:

If I take the latter approach, how do I actually find out which is the best
helmet? They all seem to be labelled "EN 1078" (are no helmets made to the
Snell standard any more?) and I suspect that some of these are barely up to
the standard while others are considerably above the standard. How do I tell
them apart? Is price a good guide?

Not really: you're generally paying for things like vents as the more
holes in the lid the harder it is to build it so it conforms to the
standard. If your design goals are "must conform to EN 1078" you'd be
pretty safe betting they're not going to overdo things and cost
themselves more money than they have to, IMHO.

If all you can see are the comedy EuroStandard then I would base your
decision on a snug, comfortable fit, and don't forget to assess "snug
and comfortable" when the chin strap is done up properly. If it doesn't
keep the lid secure then you're really only in the business of
cosmetics. Extra vents etc. will make it more comfortable on a hot day,
but will probably not help with its efficacy in a crash.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:50:23 +0000 (UTC), "davek"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I could consider that although no helmet is designed to save my life if
I'm run over by a cement mixer, some helmets *are* better than others, so I
ought to buy the best helmet available...

In which case Brian walker of Head Protection Evaluations, who tests
helmets in the UK, recommends Specialized.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

davek said:

I could, for example, take the view that they're all rubbish anyway
so if I'm going to spend money, I might as well spend as little as
possible and just buy the cheapest/nicest colour/one with most air
vents/fits most comfortably...

Or I could consider that although no helmet is designed to save my
life if I'm run over by a cement mixer, some helmets *are* better
than others, so I ought to buy the best helmet available...

.....that you find comfortable and cool enough, otherwise you'll give up
wearing it. A motorcycle helmet will offer more protection but you
couldn't stand it for cycling. They're always a compromise.

~PB

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

[snip]

Quoted message said:

If I take the latter approach, how do I actually find out which is

the best

Quoted message said:

helmet? They all seem to be labelled "EN 1078" (are no helmets made

to the

Quoted message said:

Snell standard any more?) and I suspect that some of these are

barely up to

Quoted message said:

the standard while others are considerably above the standard. How

do I tell

Quoted message said:

them apart? Is price a good guide?

Well, as you've noted, all helmets (in the UK) are designed to meet
the same Euro standard. Helmets compete by trying to be lightest and
coolest. I suspect this means that the "best" helmets are those with
minimum protection.

"Which" magazine, a few years ago, came up with the theory that a
helmet that can meet both the Euro and the N. American standards is
probably more protective than a helmet which meets only one. Whether
that is significant, I don't know.

Wearing helmets too loosely is the latest theory on why helemets seem
to do so little good. I imagine, though, that even a loose helmet
will have almost the same area of your head covered with styrofoam as
would one tightly strapped down.

When you get your helmet, consider also wearing it when riding in a
car. Not only is your total chance of head injury more likely in car
riding than bike riding, but it's even more convenient to wear a
helmet in a car than on a bike. Cars even create an automatic helmet
storage solution, so there's really no excuse for not wearing a
helmet in a car

Jeremy Parker.

in message <[email hidden]>, davek

(') said:

What's the correct approach to adopt when purchasing a bike helmet?
(Not buying one at all is not an option, so no facetious answers,
please.)

MET Parachute.

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300005836>

Why? Well, if you're going to hurt your head falling of your bike, one
of the most likely scenarios is that you go over the bars. In which
case you tend to do a 'faceplant'? Why is it called a 'faceplant'?
Because you land on your face. Which bit of your head does a
conventional helmet not protect? Oh, yes, your face. As a side effect
it also fits much more securely and is thus less likely to get knocked
off in an accident.

Of course proper downhill helmets protect your face even more, but they
just aren't well enough ventilated for normal riding. If you're going
to wear a helmet, the Parachute offers a lot better protection than the
conventional ones, for not much more weight and very similar levels of
(dis)comfort.

Quoted message said:

If I take the latter approach, how do I actually find out which is the
best helmet? They all seem to be labelled "EN 1078" (are no helmets
made to the Snell standard any more?)

Yes, but not many and apparently not sold in Europe.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; all in all you're just another click in the call
;; -- Minke Bouyed

Simon Brooke said:

MET Parachute.

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300005836>

There was a report I read recently that said chin bar equipped helmets
reduced injuries to the jaw but increased injuries to the neck as they
transferred the impact to the skull rather than dissipating it in a
breaking jaw. YMMV

Tony

Quoted message said:

What's the correct approach to adopt when purchasing a bike helmet?
(Not buying one at all is not an option, so no facetious answers,
please.)

In the abscence of Snell standard helmets and the like then cost
apparently has no bearing on the protection offered[1] so go for the
cheapest one that fits perfectly.

Also go for:
Bright/reflective colours
As few air vents as possible for a possibly stronger helmet
As many air bents as possible for a more comfortable helmet
As small a helmet as possible to avoid hitting your head when you do fall
off
As large a helmet as possible in case it provides more protection
No visor - can snag on the ground should you fall and strike the helmet
on the ground
As smooth a shape as possible - again, so it's less likely to snag

If you're a trundly a helmet shouldn't be terribly uncomfortable. If you
like to go fast or get hot when cycling then go for one with lots of
ventilation to keep you cool.

BUT having said all that, fit is EVERYTHING so just try 'em on until you
find one that fits perfectly without having to use the pads to bodge it.

[1] In the tradition of Usenet, I won't bother backing up any of these
claims.

in message <[email hidden]>, Jeremy Parker

(') said:

Wearing helmets too loosely is the latest theory on why helemets seem
to do so little good. I imagine, though, that even a loose helmet
will have almost the same area of your head covered with styrofoam as
would one tightly strapped down.

Not in an impact. The helmet will move around, possibly causing injury
in doing so, and is likely to be knocked away from where it can
effectively protect you. If you're going to bother with one at all make
sure it fits well and tightly to your head and can't move even if you
push it really hard - otherwise you really might as well not bother.

But the real truth is that helmets don't help in major injury situations
because they aren't very strong.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.'
;; <URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html>

Mark Thompson:

Quoted message said:

If you're a trundly a helmet shouldn't be terribly uncomfortable. If you
like to go fast or get hot when cycling then go for one with lots of
ventilation to keep you cool.

Thanks for all the interesting and helpful replies. What I should have said
is that this is actually for my wife, who having only just acquired a bike
is most definitely more towards the trundly end of the spectrum than the
racing end, so air vents may not be so much of an issue. She insists on
getting herself a helmet even though I've explained that they don't really
offer all that much protection.

I already have a helmet myself - have had it for over six years (probably
ought to be thinking about replacing it by now, I suspect). When I first
took up wearing a helmet, I didn't know what I know now about helmets - like
most people I just assumed they were A Good Thing. Even though I know better
now, I continue to wear it, partly out of habit and partly because it tends
to be expected of you when you ride with other people (though I note lots of
audaxers go without).

I also have a slightly cynical reason for wearing a helmet - namely that
when I do eventually get run over by a cement mixer, no-one will be able to
say: "If only he had been wearing a helmet..."

d.

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

MET Parachute.

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300005836>

Quoted message said:

There was a report I read recently that said chin bar equipped helmets
reduced injuries to the jaw but increased injuries to the neck as they
transferred the impact to the skull rather than dissipating it in a
breaking jaw. YMMV

Exactly. The entire human face is a rather well designed crumple zone
which protects the brain. You have to be careful when trying to
improve on evolution's designs, which have been carefully honed to an
optimum over millions of years of experiment.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

davek said:

I also have a slightly cynical reason for wearing a helmet - namely that
when I do eventually get run over by a cement mixer, no-one will be able to
say: "If only he had been wearing a helmet..."

No. They'll say, "If only he'd replaced his 6 year old one."

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

Just zis Guy said:

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:50:23 +0000 (UTC), "davek"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I could consider that although no helmet is designed to save my life if
I'm run over by a cement mixer, some helmets *are* better than others, so I
ought to buy the best helmet available...

In which case Brian walker of Head Protection Evaluations, who tests
helmets in the UK, recommends Specialized.

Guy, can you recommend an LBS in the Reading area who sells Specialized
helmets and can give good advice on correct fitting?

I, too, am thinking of buying a helmet but I wouldn't want to waste money
again on one which is uncomfortable or does not fit correctly.

Mike K Smith said:

I, too, am thinking of buying a helmet but I wouldn't want to waste money
again on one which is uncomfortable or does not fit correctly.

You are the only person who can decide what is comfortable for you. As
for "correct fitting", the shell should be close to your head all over
with a minimum of internal padding, should cover your forehead rather
than sit back on the top of your head and have a strap which can be snug
without impairing your breathing or letting the lid move around too much.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Mike K Smith said:

I, too, am thinking of buying a helmet but I wouldn't want to waste money
again on one which is uncomfortable or does not fit correctly.

You are the only person who can decide what is comfortable for you.

Certainly.

Quoted message said:

As for "correct fitting", the shell should be close to your head all over
with a minimum of internal padding, should cover your forehead rather
than sit back on the top of your head and have a strap which can be snug
without impairing your breathing or letting the lid move around too much.

My last helmet required large amounts of foam padding and still didn't fit
snugly enough. Consequently I had to fasten the strap too tightly for
comfort, and I am very sensitive to tight clothing etc around my neck when
cycling.

I feel I was badly advised by a shop assistant at the time, although he did
stress the importance of wearing the helmet forward over the forehead, he
didn't pay enough attention to the snugness of fit, and I was buying a
helmet for the first time and didn't really know what to look for.

I abandoned the helmet after a season, about 8 years ago, and haven't worn
one since.

Mike K Smith said:

Guy, can you recommend an LBS in the Reading area who sells
Specialized helmets and can give good advice on correct fitting?

No idea who sells what; my local shop ios AW, they have a website:
http://www.awcycles.co.uk - give them a call maybe?

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Mike K Smith said:

My last helmet required large amounts of foam padding and still didn't fit
snugly enough.

Starts to lose the point soon: the lid works by deforming /against/ the
reasonably hard object that is your skull, and passing on excess energy
to as great a surface area as possible. With fairly noddy type padding
this won't happen so the effectiveness of the helmet will be greatly
reduced.

Quoted message said:

I abandoned the helmet after a season, about 8 years ago, and haven't worn
one since.

If you can't find one that's a snug and comfortable fit I'd keep with
that sentiment. Also note that "comfortable" will vary according to the
ride you're doing. If it's a hot and humid day it might well be less
trouble than it's worth (given the likely effectiveness it's mainly
insurance against possible but unlikely major discomfort such as scalp
lacerations, and if the insurance against possible major discomfort is
fairly considerable discomfort with 100% chance there gets a point where
there, errr, isn't any much point). I'm quite likely to wear mine for
short trips in the rain, unlikely to wear it for a long run in the sun.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I abandoned the helmet after a season, about 8 years ago, and haven't worn
one since.

If you can't find one that's a snug and comfortable fit I'd keep with
that sentiment. Also note that "comfortable" will vary according to the
ride you're doing. If it's a hot and humid day it might well be less
trouble than it's worth (given the likely effectiveness it's mainly
insurance against possible but unlikely major discomfort such as scalp
lacerations, and if the insurance against possible major discomfort is
fairly considerable discomfort with 100% chance there gets a point where
there, errr, isn't any much point). I'm quite likely to wear mine for
short trips in the rain, unlikely to wear it for a long run in the sun.

It will be a sad day for me if helets are ever made compulsory.

Mike K Smith said:

It will be a sad day for me if helets are ever made compulsory.

Helets? Small Helens?

Tony