Cylcopaths

In news:[email hidden],
Peter B <[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously:

Quoted message said:

I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was impressed by
the way cyclists were expected to give way at an entrance to a large
house.<1> Still, seeing as we only cycle 'cos we're poor I suppose
it's fair enough <tugs forelock, doffs cap and otherwise grovels> and
we should be grateful someone's donated the money to paint a line
down the pavement. <1> Prior to this discovery my favourite was the
one near Knighton Park in Leicester where cyclists have to give way
to cars using the car park entrance.
It really does give the impression cyclists are second class when
they're expected to give ROW to motorists on an important mission to
the park.

Pete

I avoid roadside cycle paths for that very reason. At each junction you lose
the right of way that you would automatically have on the road. I will use
them when it suits me, but always pop back onto the road at roundabouts.
--

Martin Bulmer

Pie Conservation Threat

"Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was impressed by

the way

Quoted message said:

cyclists were expected to give way at an entrance to a large house

Oh pooh, that's nothing. I once came across a give-way sign on the
cycle-track alongside the A4 in West London. The give-way was to a
driveway that led to nothing but a locked gate.

Even more bizarre was one I came across in Chatham, on the road, I
don't know its name, that goes alongside the historic dockyard..
Here there is not a cycle track, but a cycle lane - a lane painted on
the road - with its own private give way sign painted on the tarmac.

I suppose one would have to put the sign on the ground for that.
There isn't a normal road sign saying that on some lanes of the road
you have to give way, but on others you don't.

Of course, one can easily avoid that give-way by drifting a few
inches to the right into the next lane.

The Chatham driveway also led to a locked gate.

Jeremy parker

"Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was impressed by the

way

Quoted message said:

cyclists were expected to give way at an entrance to a large house.<1>
Still, seeing as we only cycle 'cos we're poor I suppose it's fair enough
<tugs forelock, doffs cap and otherwise grovels> and we should be

grateful

Quoted message said:

someone's donated the money to paint a line down the pavement.
<1> Prior to this discovery my favourite was the one near Knighton Park

in

Quoted message said:

Leicester where cyclists have to give way to cars using the car park
entrance.
It really does give the impression cyclists are second class when they're
expected to give ROW to motorists on an important mission to the park.

Pete

You lot don't even know you've been born.

Around here*, not only are we required to give way but we have to get
off as well. All the signs clearly state in large lettering or at least
used to, the last time I bothered to look -

CYCLISTS DISMOUNT

As there are CCTV cameras positioned nearby, we all do this
automatically. As you can imagine.

Curious

*Specifically on the "cycle track" on the A4 approaching
Chiswick Flyover

Jeremy Parker said:

Oh pooh, that's nothing. I once came across a give-way sign on the
cycle-track alongside the A4 in West London. The give-way was to a
driveway that led to nothing but a locked gate.

I've seen them round here which not only have stop lines but also
cyclist dismount signs at the drives. One day I'm going to sneak out at
night and attach a "motorists get out and push" sign underneath.

Tony

[email hidden] (Dan Holdsworth)typed

Quoted message said:

Heh, I can top that one too.

Quoted message said:

On a website that documents the absurdities of certain "cycle lanes" is a
pucture of the bog-standard green-painted cycle path, complete with hi-vis
white reflective paint edges.

Quoted message said:

In the middle of the metre-wide cycle path, sporting its very own
white painted
box, there stands a lamp post. Slap bang in the middle of the
so-called cycle
path.

Lamp post? That's trivial! Round here, we have one with a full-sized
phone booth!

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:54:17 +0100, Dr Curious
<[email hidden]>

was popularly supposed to have said:

You lot don't even know you've been born.

Around here*, not only are we required to give way but we have to get
off as well. All the signs clearly state in large lettering or at least
used to, the last time I bothered to look -

CYCLISTS DISMOUNT

As there are CCTV cameras positioned nearby, we all do this
automatically. As you can imagine.

Heh, I can top that one too.

On a website that documents the absurdities of certain "cycle lanes" is a
pucture of the bog-standard green-painted cycle path, complete with hi-vis
white reflective paint edges.

In the middle of the metre-wide cycle path, sporting its very own white painted
box, there stands a lamp post. Slap bang in the middle of the so-called cycle
path.

The workmen making that path must have had _so_ much fun painting all those
silly white lines; it does you such good to know that care in the community
has extended even to the humble job of planning cycle facilities.

(Actually, the average care in the community person wouldn't dare do anything
like that. Care in the community types are usually pretty good at spotting
silly stuff like that; its the mundane that trips 'em up).

--
Dan Holdsworth PhD [email hidden]
By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, By the beans of Java
do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking
becomes a warning, By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion

"Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even more bizarre was one I came across in Chatham, on the road, I
don't know its name, that goes alongside the historic dockyard..
Here there is not a cycle track, but a cycle lane - a lane painted on
the road - with its own private give way sign painted on the tarmac.

I suppose one would have to put the sign on the ground for that.
There isn't a normal road sign saying that on some lanes of the road
you have to give way, but on others you don't.

Of course, one can easily avoid that give-way by drifting a few
inches to the right into the next lane.

An example of this sort of lunacy can be seen at:
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month\April2004.htm

I suggested to the engineer responsible that he applied for a job designing
motorway slip lanes.

Tony Raven <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jeremy Parker said:

Oh pooh, that's nothing. I once came across a give-way sign on the
cycle-track alongside the A4 in West London. The give-way was to a
driveway that led to nothing but a locked gate.

I've seen them round here which not only have stop lines but also
cyclist dismount signs at the drives. One day I'm going to sneak out at
night and attach a "motorists get out and push" sign underneath.

What these examples make clear above everything else is that the
people making all this special provision for cycles do not regard them
as legitimate vehicles.

--
Dave...

Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if
it were administered prior to the crime. — Woody Allen

Peter Owens said:

http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month\April2004.htm

That is Nasty. Any accidents yet?

Peter Owens said:

An example of this sort of lunacy can be seen at:
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month\April2004.htm

I suggested to the engineer responsible that he applied for a job
designing
motorway slip lanes.

I reckon he's on a percentage from the crematorium.

Colin

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

[snip]

Lamp post? That's trivial! Round here, we have one with a full-sized

Quoted message said:

phone booth!

[snip]

I haven't seen that one myself, but Helen and David showed me a
photo. Phone booths come and go, like Tardises. There was one in
Cockfosters for a while, but it's gone now.

They seem only to appear on bike lanes on the pavement, not lanes on
the roadway. I think it's the Time Lords trying to tell us that
vehicles belong in roads

Here in London, TRL, the Transport Research Lab, the now privatised
former Ministry of Tranport's Road Research Lab has started an
investigation into, sorry, review of, "procedures associated with the
development and delivery of measures designed to improve safety and
convenience for cyclists". The review is being done by Stuart Reid,
formerly of the CTC, and now working for TRL

The review was sparked by the various deaths on the bike facilities
on london's bridges.

I quote:

"A range of stakeholders, external to TfL, that are of relevance to
this project have been identified. These stakeholders need to be
consulted on their experience of, and input to, TfL's development of
cycling schemes."

You and I are not on that list, of course. The London Cycling
Campaign is, but not the London Bike Messengers Association, or the
CTC.

I think it is important that this investigation not be a whitewash,
and it is important to keep the pressure on the LCC. I think the LCC
has been part of the problem, by campaigning for a "London Cycle
Network". London already has a cycle network. Every inch of the
8500 miles of London's road system is cycle network. To be sure that
network can be, and should be, improved for bikes in some places, but
the key word here is "places". London should have a target of number
of places improved, not a target of number of feet of white paint
added to road or pavement. Bicycles do not need cycle tracks like
trams need tram tracks. We already have our network, and we should
fight what is the first step in what the Dutch call
"fietsapartheid" - being relegated to our own bike bantustans,
separate, but never equal..

Jeremy Parker

It's long been my rule of thumb that it always takes two deaths to
get any cycle facility removed. Only local deaths count. Deaths in
other locations are never in locations that are comparable enough to
be relevant. That rule was derived from my US experience. I doesn't
really cheer me to discover that it works in London as well.

Jeremy Parker

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:18:27 +0100 someone who may be "Jeremy Parker"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

"A range of stakeholders, external to TfL, that are of relevance to
this project have been identified. These stakeholders need to be
consulted on their experience of, and input to, TfL's development of
cycling schemes."

You and I are not on that list, of course. The London Cycling
Campaign is, but not the London Bike Messengers Association, or the
CTC.

That is disgraceful. Do the road research laboratory give
explanations for excluding the latter two?

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:18:27 +0100, "Jeremy Parker"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

You and I are not on that list, of course. The London Cycling
Campaign is, but not the London Bike Messengers Association, or the
CTC.

Are CCN or C-PAG? If so, CTC will be represented.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Owens said:

http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month\April2004.htm

Quoted message said:

That is Nasty. Any accidents yet?

Not that I know of - its only been there a few months.

But it gets worse...
They took a group of NW cycling officers on a tour (including the offending
facility)
as part of the CTC benchmarking project - and none of them could understand
the problem.

They commisionned a safety audit for the junction and the auditors didn't
bat an eylid.
Though safety auditors do seem to get extremely excited about any facility
that takes cyclists away from the gutter.

"Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here in London, TRL, the Transport Research Lab, the now privatised
former Ministry of Tranport's Road Research Lab has started an
investigation into, sorry, review of, "procedures associated with the
development and delivery of measures designed to improve safety and
convenience for cyclists". The review is being done by Stuart Reid,
formerly of the CTC, and now working for TRL

Are these the incidents where cycle lanes are in the middle of the road?

"Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think the LCC has been part of the problem, by campaigning for a
"London Cycle Network". London already has a cycle network. Every
inch of the 8500 miles of London's road system is cycle network.

WHS

--
Dave...

I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to
conquer Poland. — Woody Allen

"Peter Owens" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

"Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here in London, TRL, the Transport Research Lab, the now privatised
former Ministry of Tranport's Road Research Lab has started an
investigation into, sorry, review of, "procedures associated with the
development and delivery of measures designed to improve safety and
convenience for cyclists". The review is being done by Stuart Reid,
formerly of the CTC, and now working for TRL

Quoted message said:

Are these the incidents where cycle lanes are in the middle of the road?

The Blackfriars Bridge incident was :-(

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.