Electric Cycle Subsidy

AcKBaRKAC said:

Any ideas as to what I can do or who to contact to get me mobile?

Don't know about the economics, but for an actual vehicle I'd suggest
getting in touch with Ben Cooper at Kinetics (see
http://kinetics.org.uk/). He can convert existing bikes and/or supply
purpose built electric assist bikes. They're not the cheapest on the
planet but you'll get what you pay for AFAICT.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, AcKBaR[KAC]

(') said:

Hi

Are there currently any subsidies/incentives available for those that
switch to more more eco-friendly Electric Cycles rather than
traditional motor vehicles?

I really don't see what's eco-friendly about an electric bicycle. All it
does is move the point of pollution from the vehicle to the power
station chimney, or, in the case of nuclear power stations, to the
waste disposal site.

Get a pedal cycle, which is cheaper, and use your muscles. Better for
you, better for your wallet, better for the environment.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

For office use only. Please do not write or type below this line.

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, AcKBaR[KAC]

(') said:

Hi

Are there currently any subsidies/incentives available for those that
switch to more more eco-friendly Electric Cycles rather than
traditional motor vehicles?

I really don't see what's eco-friendly about an electric bicycle. All
it does is move the point of pollution from the vehicle to the power
station chimney, or, in the case of nuclear power stations, to the
waste disposal site.

Well, there's the fact that they're limited to a maximum power output of
150W (IIRC), which is to say it takes less electricity to ride one than to
post here from a desktop computer.

Quoted message said:

Get a pedal cycle, which is cheaper, and use your muscles. Better for
you, better for your wallet, better for the environment.

Which is a slightly cantakerous way to put it. Encouragement may be better.

I think diabetes is unlikely to cause problems with cycling and getting
exercise certainly improves the prognosis, but you'd want to consult with
your nurse specialist or GP to make sure you're not going to go
hypoglycaemic while doing it, I guess.

And cycling really isn't too hard. Electric assist does make things slightly
less effort, but it's much cheaper to just trundle along and get there in
your own time, and get nice low gears to help with the hills (although that
may not be a big issue in Hull, if my geography's correct). Batteries also
add a significant amount of weight that means they have to be dragged around
even when they've run out.

The mum of one of my friends has an electric bike which is very good for her
mobility, as she has bad arthritis, but in general, if your muscles and
joints don't give you medical problems, you're best off cycling.

Hope that's helpful. Go for it: it should be much more fun if you do it all
yourself,

Ambrose

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I really don't see what's eco-friendly about an electric bicycle. All
it does is move the point of pollution from the vehicle to the power
station chimney, or, in the case of nuclear power stations, to the
waste disposal site.

Well, there's the fact that they're limited to a maximum power output of
150W (IIRC), which is to say it takes less electricity to ride one than to
post here from a desktop computer.

Power != energy. Also the output energy is not the same as the amount
of energy you use to charge the batteries.

Paul Rudin said:

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I really don't see what's eco-friendly about an electric bicycle. All
it does is move the point of pollution from the vehicle to the power
station chimney, or, in the case of nuclear power stations, to the
waste disposal site.

You could say the same about _any_ bicycle. I'm sure plenty of fossil
fuels get used, in the smelting of bicycle components and their transport
from Taiwan to the UK. It's surely a matter of degree.

Anyway, CO2 isn't pollution - ask George Bush. Smog and Chemicals are all
that count.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, there's the fact that they're limited to a maximum power output of
150W (IIRC), which is to say it takes less electricity to ride one than to
post here from a desktop computer.

Power != energy. Also the output energy is not the same as the amount
of energy you use to charge the batteries.

Compare and contrast with the alternatives, like cars or 2-stroke mopeds.

My guess is that most people with electric bikes will only use the full
power output going uphill. If this makes the difference between someone
being able to ride or not, more power to them - I say.

AC

anonymous coward said:

Paul Rudin said:

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, there's the fact that they're limited to a maximum power output of
150W (IIRC), which is to say it takes less electricity to ride one than to
post here from a desktop computer.

Power != energy. Also the output energy is not the same as the amount
of energy you use to charge the batteries.

Compare and contrast with the alternatives, like cars or 2-stroke mopeds.

My guess is that most people with electric bikes will only use the full
power output going uphill. If this makes the difference between someone
being able to ride or not, more power to them - I say.

I was really respoding to the comparison with the energy required to
"post here from a desktop computer" which is, I think, misleading.

AcKBaRKAC said:

Hi

Are there currently any subsidies/incentives available for those that switch
to more more eco-friendly Electric Cycles rather than traditional motor
vehicles?

I'm looking at getting an Electric Cycle for going to work on but am
currently a little preturbed by the high price of these machines.

Somebody mentioned that in some cases the goverment will help with the
funding. I am Diabetic and have decided to go with an Electric Cycle
because the high price of insurance and the additional medical rulings for
driving a motor vehicle have basically priced me tottaly out of the market.

Any ideas as to what I can do or who to contact to get me mobile?

Not aware of any specific subsidies but you could see if your employer will
help by using the tax break on bicycles that can halve the price. Have a look
at
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=3866
http://www.booost.uk.com/

If it doesn't work for an electric bike you could always get a normal bike
converted.

Tony

Simon Brooke said:

I really don't see what's eco-friendly about an electric bicycle. All it
does is move the point of pollution from the vehicle to the power
station chimney, or, in the case of nuclear power stations, to the
waste disposal site.

At a power station the power is generated more efficiently and there is much
larger investment in cleaning up the pollution by products

Quoted message said:

Get a pedal cycle, which is cheaper, and use your muscles. Better for
you, better for your wallet, better for the environment.

Still produces CO2 (you'd be surprised how much if you work it out) and
probably not a lot better over all than power from a power station. Plus if
you are diabetic it can cause all sorts of problems managing blood sugar that
you and I are fortunate not to have to deal with, although overall properly
managed exercise has many benefits for diabetics.

Tony

In news:[email hidden],
Paul Rudin <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I really don't see what's eco-friendly about an electric bicycle.
All it does is move the point of pollution from the vehicle to the
power station chimney, or, in the case of nuclear power stations,
to the waste disposal site.

Well, there's the fact that they're limited to a maximum power
output of 150W (IIRC), which is to say it takes less electricity to
ride one than to post here from a desktop computer.

Power != energy. Also the output energy is not the same as the amount
of energy you use to charge the batteries.

Fair point. Battery charging is about 90% efficient at high speeds and
electric motors are 60-70% efficient.

But of course power != energy. However most bike rides are finite and
predictable in length, unless I'm wrong.

A

In news:[email hidden],
Paul Rudin <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

anonymous coward said:

Paul Rudin said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>
writes:

> In news:[email hidden],
> Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Well, there's the fact that they're limited to a maximum power
> output of 150W (IIRC), which is to say it takes less electricity
> to ride one than to post here from a desktop computer.

Power != energy. Also the output energy is not the same as the
amount of energy you use to charge the batteries.

Compare and contrast with the alternatives, like cars or 2-stroke
mopeds.

My guess is that most people with electric bikes will only use the
full power output going uphill. If this makes the difference between
someone being able to ride or not, more power to them - I say.

I was really respoding to the comparison with the energy required to
"post here from a desktop computer" which is, I think, misleading.

Well, I don't think it's that misleading, with chips now pushing 100W in
heat dissipation and 300W power supplies common. Add a monitor into that,
and you've got some quite high energy consumption.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In news:[email hidden],
Paul Rudin <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was really respoding to the comparison with the energy required to
"post here from a desktop computer" which is, I think, misleading.

Well, I don't think it's that misleading, with chips now pushing 100W in
heat dissipation and 300W power supplies common. Add a monitor into that,
and you've got some quite high energy consumption.

Beacause power supplies are capable of pumping out 300W it doesn't
mean that they're doing so all the time.

But anyway you can make a post in a minute and then turn your computer
off.. so the energy expenditure involved in running your computer for
making a post isn't huge.

In news:[email hidden],
Paul Rudin <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In news:[email hidden],
Paul Rudin <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

>

I was really respoding to the comparison with the energy required to
"post here from a desktop computer" which is, I think, misleading.

Well, I don't think it's that misleading, with chips now pushing
100W in heat dissipation and 300W power supplies common. Add a
monitor into that, and you've got some quite high energy consumption.

Beacause power supplies are capable of pumping out 300W it doesn't
mean that they're doing so all the time.

But anyway you can make a post in a minute and then turn your computer
off.. so the energy expenditure involved in running your computer for
making a post isn't huge.

Well, it takes more than a minute to unsuspend my computer from disk*, and
on dialup, it takes another minute to connect, etc, etc.

If we want to compare the energy consumption to something else, then how
about an hour's use of an electric bike at full power is about the same as a
minute in the shower or 8 seconds driving down the motorway at 90mph? But
PCs still use disgustingly large amounts of power compared to what they
should do, and electric bikes use insignificant amounts compared to other
motorised transport.

Ambrose

*but my computer only uses a max of 70W and an average of about 25W, so the
energy point is moot.

Ambrose Nankivell said:

If we want to compare the energy consumption to something else, then how
about an hour's use of an electric bike at full power is about the same as a
minute in the shower or 8 seconds driving down the motorway at 90mph?

....or boiling a kettle

Tony

Many thanks for that Tony. That was exactly what I was looking for. 🙂

Looks like i'll have to give my employer a dig in the ribs to sort something
out for me. Definitely a step in the right direction.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

AcKBaRKAC said:

Hi

Are there currently any subsidies/incentives available for those that

switch

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to more more eco-friendly Electric Cycles rather than traditional motor
vehicles?

I'm looking at getting an Electric Cycle for going to work on but am
currently a little preturbed by the high price of these machines.

Somebody mentioned that in some cases the goverment will help with the
funding. I am Diabetic and have decided to go with an Electric Cycle
because the high price of insurance and the additional medical rulings

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

driving a motor vehicle have basically priced me tottaly out of the

market.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any ideas as to what I can do or who to contact to get me mobile?

Not aware of any specific subsidies but you could see if your employer

will

Quoted message said:

help by using the tax break on bicycles that can halve the price. Have a

look

Quoted message said:

at
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=3866
http://www.booost.uk.com/

If it doesn't work for an electric bike you could always get a normal bike
converted.

Tony

Quoted message said:

Ambrose Nankivell said:

If we want to compare the energy consumption to something else, then how
about an hour's use of an electric bike at full power is about the same as

a

Quoted message said:

minute in the shower or 8 seconds driving down the motorway at 90mph?

...or boiling a kettle

Tony

But how does it compare to the size of Wales?

Cheers, helen s ;-)

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dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

But how does it compare to the size of Wales?

That's a very personal question to ask about Prince Charles ;-)

Tony

Quoted message said:

That's a very personal question to ask about Prince Charles ;-)

Tony

I suddenly feel quite queasy...

Cheers, helen s ;-)

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

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in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

But how does it compare to the size of Whales?

That's a very personal question to ask about Prince Charles ;-)

And the answer is 'about twelve feet long'.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

That's a very personal question to ask about Prince Charles ;-)

And the answer is 'about twelve feet long'.

Did you use a ruler?

Tony ;-)