Headset play

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but she
doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand one. She
wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a look at it, I
can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but there's masses
of play in the headset. I've followed the instructions in my book for
getting rid of play on a threaded headset to no avail. Any ideas?
Chuck it in the bin and buy something better for a fiver would be my
favourite..

Just loosened everything and wanged it with a hammer to see if owt was
seized. Seemed to make no difference.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but she
doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand one. She
wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a look at it, I
can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but there's masses
of play in the headset. I've followed the instructions in my book for
getting rid of play on a threaded headset to no avail. Any ideas?
Chuck it in the bin and buy something better for a fiver would be my
favourite..

Just loosened everything and wanged it with a hammer to see if owt was
seized. Seemed to make no difference.

Why not heat it with an oxy-acetylene burning torch and squeeze it in a vice
while it's still white hot?

Paul.

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but she
doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand one. She
wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a look at it, I
can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but there's masses
of play in the headset. I've followed the instructions in my book for
getting rid of play on a threaded headset to no avail. Any ideas?
Chuck it in the bin and buy something better for a fiver would be my
favourite..

Threadless? Threaded?

Doki said:

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but she
doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand one. She
wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a look at it, I
can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but there's masses
of play in the headset. I've followed the instructions in my book for
getting rid of play on a threaded headset to no avail. Any ideas?
Chuck it in the bin and buy something better for a fiver would be my
favourite..

Just loosened everything and wanged it with a hammer to see if owt was
seized. Seemed to make no difference.

Badly faced head tube, probably. Take it to a bike shop and have them
check it out. BTW, a loose headset has very little impact on shimmy etc
- this is a bit of an urban myth. I rode a bike with a loose headset
for years. In fact, riding no-hands was easier if I slackened it right off!

Simonb said:

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but she
doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand one. She
wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a look at it, I
can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but there's masses
of play in the headset. I've followed the instructions in my book for
getting rid of play on a threaded headset to no avail. Any ideas?
Chuck it in the bin and buy something better for a fiver would be my
favourite..

Threadless? Threaded?

Threaded. Hence me following the instructions for a threaded headset 🙂.

Paulmouk said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but
she doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand
one. She wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a
look at it, I can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but
there's masses of play in the headset. I've followed the
instructions in my book for getting rid of play on a threaded
headset to no avail. Any ideas? Chuck it in the bin and buy
something better for a fiver would be my favourite..

Just loosened everything and wanged it with a hammer to see if owt
was seized. Seemed to make no difference.

Why not heat it with an oxy-acetylene burning torch and squeeze it in
a vice while it's still white hot?

Did I mention that I hate the bike? The fact of the matter is that I didn't
have an oxy-acetylene torch or a vice handy in the garden. I'll take it to
someone I know with a welding works in the morning 😉.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Doki said:

Doki said:

Right. My sister's decided she'd like to start riding a bike, but
she doesn't want to buy a new one, or even a decent second hand
one. She wants to ride my old Halfords POS. Anyway, having had a
look at it, I can tell you that it's not only a piece of [censored], but
there's masses of play in the headset. I've followed the
instructions in my book for getting rid of play on a threaded
headset to no avail. Any ideas? Chuck it in the bin and buy
something better for a fiver would be my favourite..

Just loosened everything and wanged it with a hammer to see if owt
was seized. Seemed to make no difference.

Badly faced head tube, probably. Take it to a bike shop and have them
check it out.

I doubt that's worth it. It's a complete shed of a thing. Full suspension,
weighs 40 tonnes and the fork's seized.

Quoted message said:

BTW, a loose headset has very little impact on shimmy
etc - this is a bit of an urban myth. I rode a bike with a loose
headset
for years. In fact, riding no-hands was easier if I slackened it
right off!

What's the problem with play in the headset then? I just assumed it was A
Bad Thing.

In news:[email hidden],
Doki <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Zog wrote

Quoted message said:

BTW, a loose headset has very little impact on shimmy
etc - this is a bit of an urban myth. I rode a bike with a loose
headset
for years. In fact, riding no-hands was easier if I slackened it
right off!

What's the problem with play in the headset then? I just assumed it
was A Bad Thing.

Presumably it adds lag and imprecision to the steering, as well as being a
pain when you brake as the bike geometry changes a bit but noticeably.

And everything wears out quickly when loose. Like Zog, I had a bike whose
headset I couldn't get tight for a while, and it was niggly to ride. Never
shimmied, though. Not surprising given my minimal weight and the solidity of
the frame.

A

Doki said:

Quoted message said:

Threadless? Threaded?

Threaded. Hence me following the instructions for a threaded headset
🙂.

What instructions tell you to use a hammer? ;-) And WTF have you been
doing with it exactly?

I think you must be doing something wrong because it's always possible to
get rid of headset play. It's just that steering may then be stiff if you
go too far or there's something wrong with frame/forks/headset.

Are you sure there really is play in the headset? How are you testing it?
The rocking-bike-with-front-brake-on test doesn't work properly on bikes
with suspension forks. Any knocking could be from play or something in
the suspension.

Instead, bounce the front of the bike up and down, with tyre well inflated
on a hard surface and listen to the sound it makes! It should alter when
there's no headset play. Also test steering freeness by lifting bike by
frame and tilting it without touching the handlebars. So start off with
headset definitely loose, then tighten by small increments until you think
it's right.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Doki said:

Quoted message said:

Threadless? Threaded?

Threaded. Hence me following the instructions for a threaded headset
🙂.

What instructions tell you to use a hammer? ;-) And WTF have you
been doing with it exactly?

None of them 😄. I've not been doing anything with it, the thing's been in a
shed for the best part of 10 years.

Quoted message said:

I think you must be doing something wrong because it's always
possible to get rid of headset play. It's just that steering may
then be stiff if you go too far or there's something wrong with
frame/forks/headset.

I suspect a new headset is worth more than the rest of the bike, bar perhaps
the back tyre which is a half decent Michelin. Quite tempted to rob the
Michelin for my MTB and tell my sister to buy something that's not
hopelessly knackered.

Quoted message said:

Are you sure there really is play in the headset? How are you
testing it? The rocking-bike-with-front-brake-on test doesn't work
properly on bikes with suspension forks. Any knocking could be from
play or something in the suspension.

It has suspension forks, but they're siezed. I can't shift em by bouncing my
16 stone up and down on them, so I doubt they're affecting things much...
There's definate headset play front to back

Quoted message said:

Instead, bounce the front of the bike up and down, with tyre well
inflated on a hard surface and listen to the sound it makes! It
should alter when there's no headset play. Also test steering
freeness by lifting bike by frame and tilting it without touching the
handlebars. So start off with headset definitely loose, then tighten
by small increments until you think it's right.

Righto.

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

Pete Biggs said:

Doki said:

> Threadless? Threaded?

Threaded. Hence me following the instructions for a threaded headset
🙂.

What instructions tell you to use a hammer? ;-) And WTF have you
been doing with it exactly?

None of them 😄. I've not been doing anything with it, the thing's
been in a shed for the best part of 10 years.

Take the thing apart, throw away all the ball bearings on principle,
examine the cups for corrosion. If the cup surfaces are pitted you
really need to throw them away too, which on a frame of that value
really does mean Beyond Economic Repair. Otherwise, get new balls of
the appropriate size from your LBS and plenty of grease and reassemble.
Remember when putting balls in a race that you need to leave a gap of
about one ball diameter - do not try to cram in 'just one more ball'
because if they don't have space to turn independently the bearing will
fail.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and I found when I looked that we had run out
of copper roove nails.

Doki said:

It has suspension forks, but they're siezed. I can't shift em by
bouncing my 16 stone up and down on them, so I doubt they're
affecting things much...

Could there still be some front-to-back play in it even if the suspension
doesn't work vertically? Otherwise something ultra-weird is going on or
you are not adjusting the headset properly.

Quoted message said:

There's definate headset play front to back

How can you tell? What are the symptoms exactly?

Play will disappear when the upper race is tightened sufficiently (not
just the locknut), unless the threads are stripped. There may be a
problem with stack height, or locknut or washer incompatibility, if the
locknut can't be tightened properly but that's extremely unlikely if the
headset is the original one (and it should still be possible to remove
play temporarily).

Instructions:
www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_headset.shtml

~PB

I said:

Quoted message said:

There's definate headset play front to back

How can you tell? What are the symptoms exactly?

Sorry, don't worry about answering that question, I know what you mean.

~PB

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

None of them 😄. I've not been doing anything with it, the thing's been in a
shed for the best part of 10 years.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I suspect a new headset is worth more than the rest of the bike, bar perhaps
the back tyre which is a half decent Michelin. Quite tempted to rob the
Michelin for my MTB and tell my sister to buy something that's not
hopelessly knackered.

This does rather beg the question of why you have bothered to store it
all these years. :-)

--
Dave...

Agreed.
"Dave Kahn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

None of them 😄. I've not been doing anything with it, the thing's been

in a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shed for the best part of 10 years.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I suspect a new headset is worth more than the rest of the bike, bar

perhaps

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the back tyre which is a half decent Michelin. Quite tempted to rob the
Michelin for my MTB and tell my sister to buy something that's not
hopelessly knackered.

This does rather beg the question of why you have bothered to store it
all these years. :-)

--
Dave...