Drivetrain conversion question

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Randybaker99
I have an 18 year old Bianchi 12 spd, with Shimano 600 components. It is my trainer bike, and is a candidate for my wet weather bike / commuter. Here is my question:

I want to upgrade the drive train to Shimano 9 speed (probably tiagra) but I would be happy to leave the front shifter as a downtube. Will I need to upgrade to a tiagra front derailleur, too?

Also, here is my current checklist of steps I will need to take, please let me know if I have missed anything:

1) Get the frame spread to accomodate 9 speed hub

2) Acquire rear wheel with 9 speed hub

3) acquire/install 9 speed cassette

4) acquire/install 9 speed rear derailleur (have derailleur hangers changed in the last 18 years?)

5) Remove right brake lever, acquire/install right STI Shifter/Brake Lever

6) run new cabling from right shifter to rear derailleur, recable rear brake to new lever

7) retape handlebars

8) Acquire/install 9 speed chain - will this chain work on the 600 chainrings?


If I need to upgrade the crankset also, that is a big increase in project scope, so I would be willing to explore the 8 speed option - if that would help.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

If the frame is steel,you can just spread the stays, cram in the wider hub/wheel and ride it. Sometimes the derailer hanger might need to be realigned,but usually not. If the current system is INDEX,you don't even need a new RD assuming the current one works ok. A new one might work better,but isn't required. Chainset is ok as is. No need to change the FD.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
If the frame is steel,you can just spread the stays, cram in the wider hub/wheel and ride it. Sometimes the derailer hanger might need to be realigned,but usually not. If the current system is INDEX,you don't even need a new RD assuming the current one works ok. A new one might work better,but isn't required. Chainset is ok as is. No need to change the FD.

Ageed!
You might also save some with a bar end shifter instead of the STI.

Sheldon shows you how to make the spread at:

<http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html>

If you acquire the 9 speed rear wheel before the 9 speed cassette and 9 speed chain, you can add a spacer and use your old cassette waiting the acquistion process. If you want, you can use the bar-end shifter in friction mode to shift your 7 speed cassette.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
If the frame is steel,you can just spread the stays, cram in the wider hub/wheel and ride it. Sometimes the derailer hanger might need to be realigned,but usually not. If the current system is INDEX,you don't even need a new RD assuming the current one works ok. A new one might work better,but isn't required. Chainset is ok as is. No need to change the FD.

Thanks! Yes, it is steel, and no, it is not currently index shifting - but rather friction. The whole point of this upgrade is to make the rear shifting STI. Nine speed is preferable as my new bike is 9 and then the gearing will be similar on both bikes.

Do you really think that a 6 speed RD will work across 9 gears? That might be an interesting interim mode, while I look for a right-hand shifter on ebay. Not a big deal though, since I have the new bike to ride. This is mostly just tinkering.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by daveornee
Ageed!
You might also save some with a bar end shifter instead of the STI.

Sheldon shows you how to make the spread at:

<http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html>

Too cool! I had found these instructions months ago, but totally forgot about them - thanks! I think I will tackle the spreading myself - I will report back.

Quoted post said:

If you acquire the 9 speed rear wheel before the 9 speed cassette and 9 speed chain, you can add a spacer and use your old cassette waiting the acquistion process. If you want, you can use the bar-end shifter in friction mode to shift your 7 speed cassette.

The bike has a freewheel right now (18 year old bike, remember?) so I will need a new cassette right off the bat. Thanks for the idea, though.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
If the frame is steel,you can just spread the stays, cram in the wider hub/wheel and ride it. Sometimes the derailer hanger might need to be realigned,but usually not. If the current system is INDEX,you don't even need a new RD assuming the current one works ok. A new one might work better,but isn't required. Chainset is ok as is. No need to change the FD.

Upon further reflection, I have some follow up questions:

1) you say my existing chain will be fine with a 9 cog cassette, but what about the opposite scenario - if I get a 9 speed chain (I need a new chain anyway) will it work (well) with the old Shimano 600 chainrings and 600 FD?

2) Can I put new 105/ultegra chainrings on the 600 crank, or would a whole new crank (and BB) be required?

To summarize, would moving to a 9 speed chain force an upgrade of the entire crankset?

Thanks.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Randybaker99
Upon further reflection, I have some follow up questions:

1) you say my existing chain will be fine with a 9 cog cassette, but what about the opposite scenario - if I get a 9 speed chain (I need a new chain anyway) will it work (well) with the old Shimano 600 chainrings and 600 FD?

2) Can I put new 105/ultegra chainrings on the 600 crank, or would a whole new crank (and BB) be required?

To summarize, would moving to a 9 speed chain force an upgrade of the entire crankset?

Thanks.

A 9 speed chain will work. you can put 105/ultegra chainrings n it

UPDATE:

I am about halfway through this upgrade and I have several intereting details to report back on:

1) spreading the rear dropouts of a steel frame is a fun do-it-yourself project! It takes about 10 minutes and a stick of wood. Optional equipment is a Vernier caliper to get an exact measurement. I went from 130 to 135 mm. The Sheldon Brown page has all the info anyone would need.

2) Nashbar has really inexpensive wheelsets from time to time. I was able to get a wheelset made from CXP21 rims and Shimano 2200 9 speed hubs for under $90.00. That is for the pair. They are a decent set of wheels.

2) An old six speed RD and friction shifters work pretty darned well on a 9 speed hub. I still have to adjust it so that I can reliably shift into the biggest and smallest cogs. Anyways, the 9 speed 105 RD is on order...

3) a plain old chain will work OK on a 9 speed cassette, but a 9 speed chain is noticeably smoother anmd quieter. Conversely, the 9 speed chain works great on the original Shimano 600 crankset - I see no need to make any changes there, except to upgrade the Front Derailleur when I add the STI shifter.

4) As mentioned in another thread, 105 shifters are available at nashbar.com for $116.96, after 10% off coupon code W192 is applied. That is some kind of bargain.

5) Don't bother looking for STI shifters, RDs or FDs or wheels at ebay. Prices are not reasonable. Many used ones sell for as much or more than the prices of new ones at Nashbar and PerformanceBike!

6) It seems like the best approach with a major upgrade is to break it down into phases and check everything out and get everything working right before moving on to the next phase. Right now I have a 9 speed with friction shifting, Next phase, I'll add the 105 shifters, Rear derailleur and Front derailleur (plus a new handlebar and I might convert the stem to threadless with a "Threadless Stem Adaptor" - anybody ever try one of these?)
and try to get that all working...

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Randybaker99
UPDATE:

.......and I might convert the stem to threadless with a "Threadless Stem Adaptor" - anybody ever try one of these?)
...

They work

OK, first significant snag:

The downtube shifter bosses on my Bianchi have an extra tab of metal that kept the friction shifters from rotating around, and the new cable stops for the STI shifters won't fit over it. Do I need to file down this metal tab? (sounds like a job for the Dremel) Or is there another approach? Thanks.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Randybaker99
OK, first significant snag:

The downtube shifter bosses on my Bianchi have an extra tab of metal that kept the friction shifters from rotating around, and the new cable stops for the STI shifters won't fit over it. Do I need to file down this metal tab? (sounds like a job for the Dremel) Or is there another approach? Thanks.

Never saw a tab like that that was not part of the shifter. Sure it does just not pop off? Otherwise, it's got to be gotten out of the way.Alternately you would have to hog out the cable stop to fit over it.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Never saw a tab like that that was not part of the shifter. Sure it does just not pop off? Otherwise, it's got to be gotten out of the way.Alternately you would have to hog out the cable stop to fit over it.

It is definitely part of the frame, so off it goes! I don't think it will be missed.

The process is basically complete. I now have an 18 year old Bianchi with 105 9 speed STI shifting. I am amazed how nice it turned out! It is almost as fast as my new rig - good thing I bought the new bike first, or I would have had trouble justifying it! 😉

But, there is one problem that I am having and I wonder if anyone else has dealt with it successfully: The original double crankset seems to have a wider gap between the rings than what a new crankset would have. This makes sense since the old chain was wider than the 9 speed on it now. The problem comes when I try to shift from the small ring to the big, the STI doesn't seem to move it far enough over the first time I press the lever. If I press again it sort of squeezes it over enough, but it is very annoying.

Do I just need to keep making adjustments to the limit screws and the cable tension? Or do I need to start looking for a new crankset (and BB!)? What about just putting on two new 105 rings (on sale for $14.95 apiece at nashbar)?

Randybaker99 said:

The process is basically complete. I now have an 18 year old Bianchi with 105 9 speed STI shifting. I am amazed how nice it turned out! It is almost as fast as my new rig - good thing I bought the new bike first, or I would have had trouble justifying it! 😉

But, there is one problem that I am having and I wonder if anyone else has dealt with it successfully: The original double crankset seems to have a wider gap between the rings than what a new crankset would have. This makes sense since the old chain was wider than the 9 speed on it now. The problem comes when I try to shift from the small ring to the big, the STI doesn't seem to move it far enough over the first time I press the lever. If I press again it sort of squeezes it over enough, but it is very annoying.

Do I just need to keep making adjustments to the limit screws and the cable tension? Or do I need to start looking for a new crankset (and BB!)? What about just putting on two new 105 rings (on sale for $14.95 apiece at nashbar)?

What FD and what crankset is on it? Problem could be hi limit screw or not enough cable tension. You also have to start the derailer adjustment with the shifter in the untrimmed granny ring position, and the cable loose. www.parktool.com has the drill. A big ring with pins and ramps will shift quicker,but the difference in ring spacing if there really even is any isn't the issue.