Learning to climb better...

"Turbo.Fahel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Get in a lower gear and keep your pedalling cadence up in the 60 to 90 range.

Learn 'spinning' techniques (e.g. pull back on the pedal at the bottom of the stroke) to bring more
muscle groups into the equation.

In my case -- lose weight -- it just slows you up.

Initially it might not be faster but you will improve.

T

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Sounds like you're getting back into "serious" cycling. To get better at climbing, you have to DO a
lot of climbing. There's no quick fix; your're not going to become a star climber in a week or a
month, but you will see improvement.

If you're a bit overweight, shedding some pounds will definitely help. Try to find your own climbing
style. Some folks prefer spinning low gears; others prefer mashing big gears. Some like to stay
seated, while others like to spend more time out of the saddle.

Experiment and see what works for you. Don't push yourself to exhaustion, but ride lots of hills.

Art Harris

"Turbo.Fahel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

--
Regards, Turbo Fahel __o -\<, ( ) / ( )

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗).
Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 10/04/2003

Learn to honk properly. Many riders don't swing their bike from side to side enough. Use your whole
body when out of the saddle.

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

I was in your situation about six months ago and today the hills are where I can relax because
everybody else is slowing down more than I need to. So on group rides my pulse usually goes down on
a hill. I'm 52 and riding with recreational riders.

So what did I do? I attack every hill I can find. I ride detours when commuting to work to find
hills to attack. I go up as hard as I ever can on as high a gear as possible spinning as fast as
possible. I seldom make it all the way to the top. If I do I haven't attacked hard enough. However
my cadence on hills is lower than on the flat. The people I ride with often have a higher cadence on
hills than on the flat and therefore slow down to much.

I've been a regular at the Gym over the winter doing bicycle related exercises.Both for the legs and
the upper body. For this part I have used Chris Carmichaels recommendations in his book the Lance
Armstrong Performance Program. I showed my Gym instructor the workouts section and he set up my
program according to this. I am not saying you have to use the Carmichael program but it is good to
have a program that is bicycle related. Many good coaches and athletes can help you with that.

But mainly. I just love attacking a hill. I don't know why but it feels so damn good everytime.
--
Perre

Remove and/or replace the DOTs as needed to reply

Climbing is all pacing; work is work whether done on the flat or uphill.

Going slower removes cues that you're using on the flat (assuming you can pace on the flat, which
also has to be learned).

The easiest way to climb is slow down; impatience is the enemy. Slowly move to higher gears until
you're working at a rate you can sustain easily, as on the flat. If you're working too hard again,
reverse it a gear. Slow down. Pick the steepest grade you can find and see how slowly you can go up
it. You won't have worked even a tiny bit when you get to the top. Somewhere in the middle is the
perfect gear and pace.

It's absolutely automatic after enough time, regardless of grade. I happen to like uphills and
detest downhills, which only present sudden pothole hazards.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Per Elmsäter <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

I was in your situation about six months ago and today the hills are where

I

Quoted message said:

can relax because everybody else is slowing down more than I need to. So

on

Quoted message said:

group rides my pulse usually goes down on a hill. I'm 52 and riding with recreational riders.

So what did I do? I attack every hill I can find. I ride detours when commuting to work to find
hills to attack. I go up as hard as I ever can

on

Quoted message said:

as high a gear as possible spinning as fast as possible. I seldom make it all the way to the top.
If I do I haven't attacked hard enough. However my cadence on hills is lower than on the flat. The
people I ride with often have a higher cadence on hills than on the flat and therefore slow down
to much.

I've been a regular at the Gym over the winter doing bicycle related exercises.Both for the legs
and the upper body. For this part I have used Chris Carmichaels recommendations in his book the
Lance Armstrong Performance Program. I showed my Gym instructor the workouts section and

he

Quoted message said:

set up my program according to this. I am not saying you have to use the Carmichael program but it
is good to have a program that is bicycle

related.

Quoted message said:

Many good coaches and athletes can help you with that.

But mainly. I just love attacking a hill. I don't know why but it feels so damn good everytime.
--
Perre

Remove and/or replace the DOTs as needed to reply

I completely agree with this now I'm pretty fit, but when I'd just started I used to collapse half
way up most hills through trying too hard. The key for me was NOT attacking too hard at the bottom
but finding a pace that I could maintain all the way up. Also... Resist the temptation to drop
through to the lowest gear possible. Alternate sitting & standing. Concentrate on not loosing
momentum when changing position. When sitting, sit well back & stretch legs out fully on the
downstroke. Concentrate on controlled deep breathing, right from the bottom. Try using a heart rate
monitor. You will find there is a point of no return, if you stick just below this you will complete
the hill. Go over it and collapse is immenent. Remember if you've just joined a club, you can't
expect to keep up with the other riders who've maybe raced & trained regularly, nobody would. Just
keep riding and enjoy it! Hills show up differences in fitness far more than the flat so its not
that your not good at hills, it just shows more. Finally, I heard somewhere it takes about 3 years
of training to reach your optimum fitness, whatever your age so you've a lot to look forward to!

Russell

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Lose weight and ride uphill lots.

"Turbo.Fahel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Have you considered EPO?

DM

Darren Mercer said:

Have you considered EPO?

EPO is old hat. Check out Product W.

sheldonbrown.comw.htmlOpen ↗

Art Harris

"Turbo.Fahel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle

on

Quoted message said:

the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???
--
Regards, Turbo Fahel

The bottom line is you need to increase your power output for the duration of the climb. I suggest
you do hill reps. Find a hill approx. 1 mile in length without too much traffic. After a warm up,
ride up at an effort that you can just maintain to the top. Coast down to the bottom again and
repeat. Start off with 4 then build up to 10 after a several weeks. Note the time it took for you to
complete one of these when you started out and the time it takes after several weeks. This is not an
easy workout but it's one that I use to improve my climbing at the start of the season.

Phil Holman

A club mate of mine finally drags himself to the top of the hill where i was waiting "it's not fair
- you always choose a route that takes in hills" he whines, "you know i can't do hills like you
can". "ah", I answer " that's because i always choose the hilly routes"

he just didn't get it, and continued to be [censored] at hills....

"Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Per Elmsäter <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

I was in your situation about six months ago and today the hills are

where

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

can relax because everybody else is slowing down more than I need to. So

on

Quoted message said:

group rides my pulse usually goes down on a hill. I'm 52 and riding with recreational riders.

So what did I do? I attack every hill I can find. I ride detours when commuting to work to find
hills to attack. I go up as hard as I ever can

on

Quoted message said:

as high a gear as possible spinning as fast as possible. I seldom make

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all the way to the top. If I do I haven't attacked hard enough. However

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cadence on hills is lower than on the flat. The people I ride with often have a higher cadence
on hills than on the flat and therefore slow down

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much.

I've been a regular at the Gym over the winter doing bicycle related exercises.Both for the legs
and the upper body. For this part I have

used

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Chris Carmichaels recommendations in his book the Lance Armstrong Performance Program. I showed
my Gym instructor the workouts section and

he

Quoted message said:

set up my program according to this. I am not saying you have to use the Carmichael program but
it is good to have a program that is bicycle

related.

Quoted message said:

Many good coaches and athletes can help you with that.

But mainly. I just love attacking a hill. I don't know why but it feels

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

damn good everytime.
--
Perre

Remove and/or replace the DOTs as needed to reply

I completely agree with this now I'm pretty fit, but when I'd just started

I

Quoted message said:

used to collapse half way up most hills through trying too hard. The key for me was NOT attacking
too hard at the bottom but finding a pace that I could maintain all the way up. Also... Resist the
temptation to drop through to the lowest gear possible. Alternate sitting & standing. Concentrate
on not loosing momentum when changing position. When sitting, sit well back & stretch legs out
fully on the downstroke. Concentrate on controlled deep breathing, right from the bottom. Try
using a heart rate monitor. You will find there is a point of no

return,

Quoted message said:

if you stick just below this you will complete the hill. Go over it and collapse is immenent.
Remember if you've just joined a club, you can't expect to keep up with

the

Quoted message said:

other riders who've maybe raced & trained regularly, nobody would. Just

keep

Quoted message said:

riding and enjoy it! Hills show up differences in fitness far more than

the

Quoted message said:

flat so its not that your not good at hills, it just shows more. Finally,

I

Quoted message said:

heard somewhere it takes about 3 years of training to reach your optimum fitness, whatever your
age so you've a lot to look forward to!

Russell

Quoted message said:

Experiment and see what works for you. Don't push yourself to exhaustion, but ride lots of hills.

This is not correct. Riding hills will not make you a better athlete. Riding some hills is
important.

The only things you can do to improve your climbing are

1. Get very fit.
2. Get as light as you can.
3. Lighten the bike.

The Year Bjarne Rees won the tour he was 10 lb lighter than the previous year, and Big Mig was
overweight.

"Turbo.Fahel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Hill climbing is all about cardio-vascular capacity. That pretty much determines your maximum
short-term power output. How much power you need is determined by the combined weight of you and the
bike. There's no special technique to climbing, except that if you go too fast for your capacity,
you'll "blow up", and have to slow way down for some minutes to recover. Anything that helps you
develop cardio-vascular capacity will help you climb, there are tons of books on the subject.

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

Well then, it's too late for the best answer - choosing your parents carefully.

Quoted message said:

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Strength training will help, but it can be hard to work it into a full riding schedule without
hurting your actual riding (it IS a great winter training strategy though).

There's been lots of good advice so far, so I'll just concentrate on a few technique things that
seem to work for me:

1) Get comfortable on the bike when climbing. If out of the saddle, for me this means leaning
slightly forward, arms wide enough to "open up my breathing". I'm more alternately leaning on
each brake hood than pulling up on the other one (this isn't the case on a short, steep hill
being attacked).
2) Climb in the right gear. This takes some practice to determine. When I'm climbing a long grade
out of the saddle, I'll choose a high gear and lower cadence. Sometimes I have no choice - my
fixed gear bike has a 53x16 drivetrain, but it still goes up hills nicely as long as they're not
horribly steep.
3) On long hills, alternate between sitting and standing. What I do is to stand to get my speed up,
then sit and spin carful, round circles (using ALL the muscles in my legs) to maintain the speed.
As it decays due to the fact I'm sitting down, I stand and accelerate back up to my goal speed.
Repeat until the top of the hill or your lunch is dripping from your bars.
4) Ride more hills.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

"Tony W" <...

Quoted message said:

"Turbo.Fahel" <.ihug.co.nz...

Quoted message said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Get in a lower gear and keep your pedalling cadence up in the 60 to 90 range.

Don't forget the mental aspect (and pain toleration) which as equal to, if not greater than the raw
physical ability to climb long hills (1K or longer).

-Ken

Quoted message said:

Learn 'spinning' techniques (e.g. pull back on the pedal at the bottom of the stroke) to bring
more muscle groups into the equation.

In my case -- lose weight -- it just slows you up.

Initially it might not be faster but you will improve.

h'Gearóid Ó Laoi said:

This is not correct. Riding hills will not make you a better athlete. Riding some hills is
important.

The only things you can do to improve your climbing are

1. Get very fit.
2. Get as light as you can.
3. Lighten the bike.

The Year Bjarne Rees won the tour he was 10 lb lighter than the previous year, and Big Mig was
overweight.

I wonder sometimes if weight is all that matters. Whenever I have been able to look at
world-class stage-racing cyclists up-close (not on TV) I have been amazed at how compact they
are. Not just slim, or low-weight, but really, really compact. Lots of muscle and power in a very
aerodynamic shape.

It would be interesting to be able to compare great, but non hill-climbing, cyclists like Mario
Cipollini or Sean Kelly, with the likes of Bernald Hinault, Greg Lemond, Laurent Fignon, and even
Indurain (who, though I have only seen him on TV, did not look all that "compact"😉. (I don't mention
recent cyclists, because I haven't seen them in person. Don't get around much anymore...)

"Tim Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It would be interesting to be able to compare great, but non hill-climbing, cyclists like Mario
Cipollini or Sean Kelly, with the likes of Bernald Hinault, Greg Lemond, Laurent Fignon, and even
Indurain (who, though I have only seen him on TV, did not look all that "compact"😉.

Sean Kelly won Liege-Bastogne-Liege twice, the Tour of Lombardy twice, the Tour of Spain, Paris-Nice
(many times), at least one mountain stage of the Tour de France (in 1980 I think) and was fourth
overall in the Tour de France at least once. To call him a "great but non hill climbing" cyclist is
way, way off. Maybe he couldn't go up mountains day after day as well as guys who won multiple Tours
de France, but he was undoubtedly in the top 1% of cyclists in terms of hill climbing ability.

Even Mario Cipollini can climb hills faster than the vast majority of cyclists.

JT

Mark Hickey said:

Turbo.Fahel said:

I am 44 yrs old and today joined a club.

Well then, it's too late for the best answer - choosing your parents carefully.

Maybe 15 years ago, someone a little older that I said his new Ti frame "bought" him about 5
years younger on his fitness level. Noticed your website...I need more than 5 years though.
Nice to see an affordable Ti frame though.

Steve (age 50 11/12)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I need to improve my climbing ability as it very average as I struggle on the hills.

What can I do to improve, riding more, gym work etc ???

Strength training will help, but it can be hard to work it into a full riding schedule without
hurting your actual riding (it IS a great winter training strategy though).

There's been lots of good advice so far, so I'll just concentrate on a few technique things that
seem to work for me:

1) Get comfortable on the bike when climbing. If out of the saddle, for me this means leaning
slightly forward, arms wide enough to "open up my breathing". I'm more alternately leaning on
each brake hood than pulling up on the other one (this isn't the case on a short, steep hill
being attacked).
2) Climb in the right gear. This takes some practice to determine. When I'm climbing a long grade
out of the saddle, I'll choose a high gear and lower cadence. Sometimes I have no choice - my
fixed gear bike has a 53x16 drivetrain, but it still goes up hills nicely as long as they're
not horribly steep.
3) On long hills, alternate between sitting and standing. What I do is to stand to get my speed
up, then sit and spin carful, round circles (using ALL the muscles in my legs) to maintain the
speed. As it decays due to the fact I'm sitting down, I stand and accelerate back up to my goal
speed. Repeat until the top of the hill or your lunch is dripping from your bars.
4) Ride more hills.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

It's a simple thing, Tim

Power/weight ratio,. On the flat it's just power. Big Mig had massive power and so he could compete
weighing 12 3. Roche and Delgado were about 10 7. Don't know about Kelly.