Below Steering

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I wouldn't
dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed some
have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult to
control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks to
below steering? Thanks.
Tony

it is so COMFORTABLE that twice i have nodded off and woken on the
gravel shoulder(!!!)... the topside bars make you hold yr hands like
a squirrel holds its front paws while begging - Ъ×

My inclination is that it is just personal preference. I have heard
recommendations to the effect that one should find a place that
allows extended test drives and choose what you like.

That said, personally, I prefer having the handlebars in front of
me, because that's what I'm used to. I think it gives me
better control.

Henry

My $12 homebuilt recumbent:
http://comptune.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=208#208

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I wouldn't
dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed

some

Quoted message said:

have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult

to

Quoted message said:

control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks to
below steering? Thanks.
Tony

"Henry" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

My inclination is that it is just personal preference.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That said, personally, I prefer having the handlebars in front of
me, because that's what I'm used to. I think it gives me
better control.

To prove Henry correct, my personal preference is for Under Seat Steering
(USS). I feel like my arms are in a more natural position and love the way
it feels with nothing but my feet out in front of me. I feel like I'm on a
magic carpet ride. For me, the USS felt natural from the first time I tried
it (which was also my first ride on a bent of any sort)... no adjustment
period at all.

I later bought a second bent (a RANS Vivo) with above seat steering, but
after a year decided to sell it because I never got to the point where the
steering felt as natural as my USS bent.

A drawback to USS steering is that it is less aerodynamic, and some people
think it is more difficult to walk the bike. I'm willing to trade
aerodynamics for what feels right to me. Also, I find it is quite easy to
walk my USS bent. I simply get behind the bike and with both hands on the
seat, tip the bike up on its back wheel and walk it from directly behind the
bike. I preferred this method of walking a bike even with the RANS Vivo.
(Particularly when walking the bike into the house or negotiating other
narrow spaces.)

~ Nanc
1999 Vision R44 USS
2003 Vision R45 USS

ditto for me. USS is best!--

"Nanc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Moclc.70339$f_5.15704@lakeread01...

Quoted message said:

"Henry" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

My inclination is that it is just personal preference.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

That said, personally, I prefer having the handlebars in front of
me, because that's what I'm used to. I think it gives me
better control.

To prove Henry correct, my personal preference is for Under Seat Steering
(USS). I feel like my arms are in a more natural position and love the

way

Quoted message said:

it feels with nothing but my feet out in front of me. I feel like I'm on

a

Quoted message said:

magic carpet ride. For me, the USS felt natural from the first time I

tried

Quoted message said:

it (which was also my first ride on a bent of any sort)... no adjustment
period at all.

I later bought a second bent (a RANS Vivo) with above seat steering, but
after a year decided to sell it because I never got to the point where the
steering felt as natural as my USS bent.

A drawback to USS steering is that it is less aerodynamic, and some people
think it is more difficult to walk the bike. I'm willing to trade
aerodynamics for what feels right to me. Also, I find it is quite easy to
walk my USS bent. I simply get behind the bike and with both hands on the
seat, tip the bike up on its back wheel and walk it from directly behind

the

Quoted message said:

bike. I preferred this method of walking a bike even with the RANS Vivo.
(Particularly when walking the bike into the house or negotiating other
narrow spaces.)

~ Nanc
1999 Vision R44 USS
2003 Vision R45 USS

Thanks for your inputs, I am really leaning towards the USS models...just
seems to be a more natural location, I'm sure it will take a little getting
used to but in the end I think I'll like it better....
I do notice that many of the USS models have the seat leaning way
back...looks fairly comfortable but it would seem to me that you have to
hold your head up/forward and this would tend to cause some nech
strain....Of course this is just a guess on my part but is that the case?
Thanks again...
Tony

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I wouldn't
dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed

some

Quoted message said:

have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult

to

Quoted message said:

control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks to
below steering? Thanks.
Tony

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I wouldn't
dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed some
have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult to
control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks to
below steering? Thanks.
Tony

My first two bents were ASS (Above Seat Steering). Two homebuilt
models, short wheel base. I then purchased a RANS Tailwind for my wife
(still ASS), but rode it for a while as well. Then I got a good deal
on a used Linear LWB with USS (Under Seat Steering). I loved the way
it felt. It is a more natural, more relaxed position than the "praying
squirrel" position of ASS bikes. I could easily switch between the two
styles, however, depending on what I felt like on a particular day. My
main ride is now a Burley Hepcat SWB with USS. I love this machine as
well.

It really all boils down to personal preference and what you want to
do on your bike. The Linear is a great touring bike. Not a speed
demon, but very comfortable and stable at speeding downhill, but you
had to make an appointment to turn around. The Burley is also very
comfortable, a speed machine that is quite stable at all speeds and
much more agile and maneuverable. Some people never get used to USS.
To them, it just doesn't seem right. You need to find a dealer that
has several models to test ride and go from there.

Landonman

Quoth "TheMilligans" <[email hidden]>:
| Thanks for your inputs, I am really leaning towards the USS models...just
| seems to be a more natural location, I'm sure it will take a little getting
| used to but in the end I think I'll like it better....

Note that there are different kinds. Mine (Vanguard) is a long
rod that links the left fork crown shoulder to a point on the
handlebars between the left and the center. That point can be
moved, so you can adjust the oversteer. The bars are approximately
straight, so my hands lie palm down, thumb in. On newer Vanguards
the bars turn up, and your palms face inward, thumb up ... but the
brake levers are mounted as usual (topologically speaking), so you
work them kind of backwards with the index finger at the end of
the levers. Wind resistance is probably different, with your arms
raised a bit, and sharp turns may bring the bars to the seat frame
(don't know.) And then there are bars mounted more or less like
ordinary handlebars directly to the fork stem (short wheelbase.)

There are other factors that affect steering a lot more, though
(from what I read anyway, the Vanguard is all I know from experience.)
Height, overall wheelbase and weight distribution relative to wheelbase.
The Vanguard is high, with a low bottom bracket and a long wheelbase,
so I experience a very stable platform at reasonable speeds. At slow
speed, the long wheelbase means I weave pretty far when I'm trying to
steer the bike under myself to stay up. I'm on the tall side, so the
weight is all in the back; would be kind of interesting to know what
would happen to the steering if my legs got a foot shorter and the
weight shifted forward that much. Anyway, I imagine an Tour Easy
would steer a lot more like my Vanguard than a Reynolds Wishbone,
even though the latter is USS.

| I do notice that many of the USS models have the seat leaning way
| back...looks fairly comfortable but it would seem to me that you have to
| hold your head up/forward and this would tend to cause some nech
| strain....Of course this is just a guess on my part but is that the case?

Maybe. Of course you would want to get on a couple of representative
models to see for yourself how it actually feels, particularly before
getting into anything extreme. I wouldn't guess steering above or
below would really correlate with reclining or upright position, in
principle.

Donn

I like USS and ride where I will. You seem rather easily influenced.

"TheMilligans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I wouldn't
| dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
| purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed
some
| have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult
to
| control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks to
| below steering? Thanks.
| Tony
|
|

I've owned three bents, two w/ uss and one (a Bikee RX) with ASS. I'm
surprised no one has mentioned the wonderful "weirdness factor" these
bents have in spades, especially a uss swb like a Vision. When I
first saw one of these beasts that factor so intrigued me that I had
to have one! Now, I ride a GS GTO trike (w/USS) which, according to
my wife, is the ultimate weird hpv. I love it!

BTW, the thing that weaned me from uss swb is suddenly realizing that
I was going down a hill at 40 mph on top of an itty-bitty 16" wheel.
That first Blackbent six years ago scared the whee out of me!

BentJay

(BentJay) said:

BTW, the thing that weaned me from uss swb is suddenly realizing that
I was going down a hill at 40 mph on top of an itty-bitty 16" wheel.
That first Blackbent six years ago scared the whee out of me!

Well, I've gone downhill about that speed on a 20" wheel of a Vision
R42, and it certainly didn't make me want to quit. Don't try to run
20c tires on it either. Riding USS is still the most relaxing way to
go for me.

Now sitting as stoker on a Counterpoint once and going down a steep
hill - that scared the [censored] out of me. If I can find the insurance, I
think I'll do it as a for-fee amusement ride when I'm retired - person
paying in the front, take them down a hill where the only thing they
see is their own feet in front of them (with really no assurance
they'll make it to the bottom).

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Quoted message said:

looks fairly comfortable but it would seem to me that you have to
hold your head up/forward and this would tend to cause some nech
strain....

Do you ever slouch in the sofa while watching TV? My USS is very
comfortable. Wouldn't change it fer nuthin. Well, maybe for a TI
Rush... No neck strain. I have the back on my R40 reclined as far as
possible and it feels good to me. My hands rest lightly and naturally
on the grips. The controls are right where they should be. Very
sharp turns may be a bit more awkward with USS, but it is no problem
day-to-day. Heel strike is a worse hazard than the steering bumping
the frame. My handle bars fit under the seat but will hit the frame.
So, in the gravest extreme I curl my wrist on the hand disappearing
under the seat, so my fingers stay in contact with the bar. Then when
I straighten out, my hand just naturally falls back into place on the
bar. But note that this is unusual for me to have to do this.

BentJay said:

...
BTW, the thing that weaned me from uss swb is suddenly realizing that
I was going down a hill at 40 mph on top of an itty-bitty 16" wheel.
That first Blackbent six years ago scared the whee out of me!...

I find my Sunset with its ISO 305-mm (16-inch) front wheel to be quite
stable at 50+ mph. It has a more appropriate steering geometry and
weight distribution for high-speed handling than the Blackbent, however.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I wouldn't
dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed some
have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult to
control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks to
below steering? Thanks.

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a mirror (a
necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems. Unless one is
comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of USS. (This is one
of the reasons I sold the USS bike I had, as I was not comfortable
riding in urban traffic with just a helmet mirror, and there was no good
place to mount a mirror).

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Quoth Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>:
....
| Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a mirror (a
| necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems. Unless one is
| comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
| conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of USS. (This is one
| of the reasons I sold the USS bike I had, as I was not comfortable
| riding in urban traffic with just a helmet mirror, and there was no good
| place to mount a mirror).

Seems true to me. Mine came (from previous owner) with a mirror
bolted to the left side of the Zzipper fairing, but it wiggled so
hard I couldn't see much. I get by with a helmet mounted mirror.
Once in a while when I'm on foot, I forget that I don't have a
mirror and look over there expecting to be able to surreptitiously
glance behind me.

Donn

Quoted message said:

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a mirror (a
necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems. Unless one is
comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of USS.

I ride a USS Vision, and mounting a mirror on the handlebars has not been a
problem at all. See a pic at
http://bentonbicycling.tripod.com/bentphotoalbum/id2.html

I have seen mirrors mounted on other style USS handlebars, as well. The
only USS bars on which I have never seen a mirror mounted are the flat,
straight handlebars that Donn Cave described on his Vanguard (also used on
Linear USS)... not to say it can't be done.

~ Nanc
1999 Vision R44 USS
2003 Vision R45 USS

Donn Cave said:

Quoth Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>:
...
| Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a mirror (a
| necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems. Unless one is
| comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
| conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of USS. (This is one
| of the reasons I sold the USS bike I had, as I was not comfortable
| riding in urban traffic with just a helmet mirror, and there was no good
| place to mount a mirror).

Seems true to me. Mine came (from previous owner) with a mirror
bolted to the left side of the Zzipper fairing, but it wiggled so
hard I couldn't see much. I get by with a helmet mounted mirror.
Once in a while when I'm on foot, I forget that I don't have a
mirror and look over there expecting to be able to surreptitiously
glance behind me.

With a handlebar mounted mirror, I am able to determine the relative
position (distance and bearing) of vehicles behind me. With a helmet
mounted mirror I am not able to judge bearing very well. Therefore, for
me a helmet mounted is acceptable for riding on rural roads where all
overtaking traffic will pass on my left, but is not adequate for
situations where I need to make lane changes (e.g. to get into a
left-turn lane).

Others who are comfortable with just a helmet mounted mirror in all
their regular riding situations will not find the lack of good mirror
mounting locations on most USS systems to be a disadvantage.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Tom Sherman said:

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a mirror (a
necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems. Unless one is
comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of USS.

There was (is?) a guy that was one of the early recumbent riders that
made (makes?) great mirrors that attach rather firmly to the helmet
and gives a great view (you can literally bang the helmet against the
wall until it is dinged up and the mirror is still in place). His
first name was Charlie and we used to pick up the helmet mirrors at
the old LAW/LAB GEARs.

(Charlie also did a whole thing with toeclips made from plastic milk
bottles, but I wasn't quite willing to do the Whole Earth catalog
thing.)

Now that I am riding a DF again, I need to get his name and see if I
can get another one for the helmet I use for commuting. The mount is
not designed to be easily moved or altered, so the angle is all wrong
to ride on the DF - and after Charlie's mirrors, no other will
suffice.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Tue, 4 May 2004 06:02:18 -0500, "Nanc" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I ride a USS Vision, and mounting a mirror on the handlebars has not been a
problem at all. See a pic at
http://bentonbicycling.tripod.com/bentphotoalbum/id2.html

I had one mounted similarly, but a series of very minor mishaps had me
reassembling it until I gave up - the mirror seems out there to be
dinged in my experience. OTOH, I'm happy with the helmet mirror, so it
was easy to give up.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

I use a helmet mounted mirror and like that I can scan back and forth, and
look in directions you can't see with handlebar mounted mirrors. This is
good on the river trails because I get traffic coming not only from left &
right, but from above and below (bridges and underpasses).

With ASS, bar cons and Lightning style drop bars, I find that I move my
hands all over the bars from the stem to the tips, so there is no place to
mount a mirror.

Almost all of my riding is urban.

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TheMilligans said:

I am soon to transfer back to San Diego from New Orleans (where I

wouldn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dare ride!)...I am looking forward to riding again and am considering
purchasing a Recumbent for my commuting to and from work. I've noticed

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have steering below rather than above...seems like it would be difficult

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

control in that manner....can anyone comment on the benefits/drawbacks

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

below steering? Thanks.

Most USS systems do not provide a very good place to mount a mirror (a
necessity on a recumbent) compared to OSS systems. Unless one is
comfortable using a helmet/glasses mounted mirror in the desired riding
conditions, this can be a significant disadvantage of USS. (This is one
of the reasons I sold the USS bike I had, as I was not comfortable
riding in urban traffic with just a helmet mirror, and there was no good
place to mount a mirror).

--
Tom Sherman – Quad Cities (Illinois Side)