Posture advancements.

Tetsuo Shima said:

Not sure if it's anything to do with the adjustments, but I did a 3
mile ride last night, (crappy I know.) But the thing was this
morning I had some really bad back pain lower down, it seemed very
localised to a single area of the spine. Anything to do with the
setup, or just a body that's getting too old?

Oh, btw, i'm only 29!

Raising the saddle too high can cause lower back pain.
One trick to get in the ballpark is to raise the saddle until the hipbones
start moving up and down and then lower it slowly until they stop. That's
the highest you should have. Mine is maybe 5mm below that point on all my
bikes.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tetsuo Shima said:

Not sure if it's anything to do with the adjustments, but I did a 3
mile ride last night, (crappy I know.) But the thing was this
morning I had some really bad back pain lower down, it seemed very
localised to a single area of the spine. Anything to do with the
setup, or just a body that's getting too old?

Oh, btw, i'm only 29!

Raising the saddle too high can cause lower back pain.
One trick to get in the ballpark is to raise the saddle until the hipbones
start moving up and down and then lower it slowly until they stop. That's
the highest you should have. Mine is maybe 5mm below that point on all my
bikes.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Same for me, but unfortunately i've had a lot of back problems, i'm just
trying not to let it stop me. Must have been all that lugging flour around
in the bakery.

"Tetsuo Shima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure if it's anything to do with the adjustments, but I did a 3 mile
ride last night, (crappy I know.) But the thing was this morning I had

some

Quoted message said:

really bad back pain lower down, it seemed very localised to a single area
of the spine. Anything to do with the setup, or just a body that's

getting

Quoted message said:

too old?

Oh, btw, i'm only 29!

When you ride, do you attempt to arch your back ( pull your shoulders back
so that you open up your ribs more for breathing), or the opposite, to
tighten your stomach muscles and bend your back forward---essentially trying
to stabilize the power your legs are generating with your abdominal muscles?

I don't recall reading anything specific about this, but I've tried both,
and back soreness can result from pulling your shoulders backward...I think
this gets amplified in guys with big guts hanging over their belt, as their
back is even weaker due to the lesser abdominal support available to back
muscles with this type of fitness ( lack of).

In Pilates, a basic movement from lying down on your back, is to first pull
your chin and neck up, trying to look at your belly button, and then
beginning to create a cup with your stomach muscles, pulling your ribs up
with a crunch type contraction that originates at the waist to the
ribs...and then from their you continue to sit up and touch your toes. This
concentrates on the stabilizing muscles that get weak in many people.
You can tighten these same muscles when riding, and try to keep your back
protected by this curling of the ab muscles, stabilizing the leg power---at
least, it seems very effective for me. At the same time, you can concentrate
on all the muscle exertion going on just coming from your legs, with your
arms and hands pretty much relaxed--this will help you prevent numb hands
and wasting oxygen on muscles that you don't need to be engaging. More
importantly, this should protect your back.

Dan V

Tetsuo Shima said:

Not sure if it's anything to do with the adjustments, but I did a 3
mile ride last night, (crappy I know.) But the thing was this
morning I had some really bad back pain lower down, it seemed very
localised to a single area of the spine. Anything to do with the
setup, or just a body that's getting too old?

Oh, btw, i'm only 29!

On second thought. A three mile ride is to short to hurt you in any way. It
must be something else screwing your back up.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

RE/

Quoted message said:

Anything to do with the setup, or just a body that's getting
too old?

Small changes in setup can have big impacts on your bod.

But what I would wonder about is why it hurts today and didn't hurt the last 20
times you rode. i.e. What changed? OTOH, maybe your just starting up again
after a long layoff....

Guy at the LBS just messed up his back landing a drop the wrong way. I've had
mine hurt after riding my hardtail and having a few bumps sneak up on me (i.e.
taking the force through my butt instead of with my legs).

--
PeteCresswell

Quoted message said:

When you ride, do you attempt to arch your back ( pull your shoulders back
so that you open up your ribs more for breathing), or the opposite, to
tighten your stomach muscles and bend your back forward---essentially

trying

Quoted message said:

to stabilize the power your legs are generating with your abdominal

muscles?

Quoted message said:

I don't recall reading anything specific about this, but I've tried both,
and back soreness can result from pulling your shoulders backward...I

think

Quoted message said:

this gets amplified in guys with big guts hanging over their belt, as

their

Quoted message said:

back is even weaker due to the lesser abdominal support available to back
muscles with this type of fitness ( lack of).

In Pilates, a basic movement from lying down on your back, is to first

pull

Quoted message said:

your chin and neck up, trying to look at your belly button, and then
beginning to create a cup with your stomach muscles, pulling your ribs up
with a crunch type contraction that originates at the waist to the
ribs...and then from their you continue to sit up and touch your toes.

This

Quoted message said:

concentrates on the stabilizing muscles that get weak in many people.
You can tighten these same muscles when riding, and try to keep your back
protected by this curling of the ab muscles, stabilizing the leg

power---at

Quoted message said:

least, it seems very effective for me. At the same time, you can

concentrate

Quoted message said:

on all the muscle exertion going on just coming from your legs, with your
arms and hands pretty much relaxed--this will help you prevent numb hands
and wasting oxygen on muscles that you don't need to be engaging. More
importantly, this should protect your back.

Dan V

That's the best bit of advice i've ever got. Thanks Dan. 🙂

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tetsuo Shima said:

Not sure if it's anything to do with the adjustments, but I did a 3
mile ride last night, (crappy I know.) But the thing was this
morning I had some really bad back pain lower down, it seemed very
localised to a single area of the spine. Anything to do with the
setup, or just a body that's getting too old?

Oh, btw, i'm only 29!

On second thought. A three mile ride is to short to hurt you in any way.

It

Quoted message said:

must be something else screwing your back up.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

I'm just not keen on having a blood test, probably get told i'm on my last
legs. *sigh*

"Tetsuo Shima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

Anything to do with the setup, or just a body that's getting
too old?

Small changes in setup can have big impacts on your bod.

But what I would wonder about is why it hurts today and didn't hurt the

last 20

Quoted message said:

times you rode. i.e. What changed? OTOH, maybe your just starting up

again

Quoted message said:

after a long layoff....

Guy at the LBS just messed up his back landing a drop the wrong way.

I've

Quoted message said:

had

Quoted message said:

mine hurt after riding my hardtail and having a few bumps sneak up on me

(i.e.

Quoted message said:

taking the force through my butt instead of with my legs).

--
PeteCresswell

I'll put it this way. From the age of 16 i've been working in a bakery

and

Quoted message said:

for 13 years after. When I first started I was never given any proper
training on lifting and after taking a long while to realise what i'd done
wrong and many 32kg bags of flour later, i've got one knackered back. If

I

Quoted message said:

am confirmed as having arthritis, I could be in for more hard times yet.

From a neuromuscular and postural perspective, any time you bend over to
pick something up, or lift something over your head, you should be sucking
your gut in hard during this. Its somewhat natural for a kid who's fit. But
if you take a 30 year old who is fat, I'd bet 9 times out of ten they do not
suck their gut in anymore when they bend over to pick something up--some of
them can't really suck their gut in....this will hurt their back. Get into
Pilates right away---even if you can't get in a class, get a video at the
local health food store, and start learning about what muscles should be
engaging. Also, do every thing slow--don't let the video rush you through
the moves and stretches.
Dan V

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

Anything to do with the setup, or just a body that's getting
too old?

Small changes in setup can have big impacts on your bod.

But what I would wonder about is why it hurts today and didn't hurt the

last 20

Quoted message said:

times you rode. i.e. What changed? OTOH, maybe your just starting up

again

Quoted message said:

after a long layoff....

Guy at the LBS just messed up his back landing a drop the wrong way. I've

had

Quoted message said:

mine hurt after riding my hardtail and having a few bumps sneak up on me

(i.e.

Quoted message said:

taking the force through my butt instead of with my legs).

--
PeteCresswell

I'll put it this way. From the age of 16 i've been working in a bakery and
for 13 years after. When I first started I was never given any proper
training on lifting and after taking a long while to realise what i'd done
wrong and many 32kg bags of flour later, i've got one knackered back. If I
am confirmed as having arthritis, I could be in for more hard times yet.

Tetsuo Shima said:

Not sure if it's anything to do with the adjustments, but I did a 3 mile
ride last night, (crappy I know.) But the thing was this morning I had some
really bad back pain lower down, it seemed very localised to a single area
of the spine. Anything to do with the setup, or just a body that's getting
too old?

Oh, btw, i'm only 29!

i had a spell of back pain after changing my routine (left a job that had
me in the same chair 5-7 hours a day for 7 years ;-). as part of that i
borrowed a copy of the Treat Your Own Back book by Robin A. McKenzie. it
is pretty widely respected, and had some good stuff.

one tidbit - the book says that what is often called exercise pain is
actually caused by bad posture *after* the exercise. the idea is that the
exercise tires you out, warms up, and relaxes everything, and then the bad
posture when you relax later can hurt you.

i ran this by my post-wrist-fracture therapist, and she readily agreed
that posture after the ride can do the damage.

so while all the other advise on bike set-up is good, watch what you
do afterward as well. fwiw.

Dan Volker wrote: Bunch of probably good advice for the right person

Tetsuo Shima said:

That's the best bit of advice i've ever got. Thanks Dan. 🙂

You sure seem eager to listen to anybody that opens his mouth, at the same
time implying that you probably/possibly have a severe medical condition
with your back. You can't resolve matters like that on the internet. Go see
your damn doctor and have it out with him.
The only thing we're good for is helping you make sure it's not your bike
causing this. The rest is way beyond our heads.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dan Volker wrote: Bunch of probably good advice for the right person

Tetsuo Shima said:

That's the best bit of advice i've ever got. Thanks Dan. 🙂

You sure seem eager to listen to anybody that opens his mouth, at the same
time implying that you probably/possibly have a severe medical condition
with your back. You can't resolve matters like that on the internet. Go

see

Quoted message said:

your damn doctor and have it out with him.
The only thing we're good for is helping you make sure it's not your bike
causing this. The rest is way beyond our heads.

--
Perre

Perre,
I could not agree more. I'm no Doctor, and I have no idea what special
problems Tetsuo may have.

I would suggest a top Neuromuscular therapist, as a 2nd opinion to anything
an Orthopedic surgeon would have to say--since the latter tend to be cutting
happy, they rarely understand muscle/soft tissue problems, and often like to
shorten a leg bone, when muscle imbalances cause the length discrepancy in
the first place. I can't tell you how many athletes I know that have had
surgeons insist on fusing back vertebrae, only to be handicapped by this
stupidity the rest of their lives---when they could have had neuromuscular
work that would have totally corrected the problem. Still, some orthopedic
guys ARE really good, and these guys try all good alternatives first. And if
you want MRI's or X-rays to detect hidden problems, you get this through the
doc, not through the therapist. The best one I know of in the Southeastern
US is Dennis Price. I have no idea where Tetsuo is, but he could call
Dennis and ask for a referral to a good neuromuscular practitioner in his
area...Dennis is at (954) 629-6617 .

My advice works for me and people like me. That could mean everything or
nothing to Tetsuo.

Dan V

Quoted message said:

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dan Volker wrote: Bunch of probably good advice for the right person

Tetsuo Shima said:

That's the best bit of advice i've ever got. Thanks Dan. 🙂

You sure seem eager to listen to anybody that opens his mouth, at the same
time implying that you probably/possibly have a severe medical condition
with your back. You can't resolve matters like that on the internet. Go

see

Quoted message said:

your damn doctor and have it out with him.
The only thing we're good for is helping you make sure it's not your bike
causing this. The rest is way beyond our heads.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Looks like it IS the Doc's then. *sigh*

Tetsuo Shima said:

"Per Elms=E4ter"=20

Quoted message said:

see your damn doctor and have it out with him.
The only thing we're good for is helping you make sure it's not your bi=

ke

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

causing this. The rest is way beyond our heads.

--
Perre

=20
Looks like it IS the Doc's then. *sigh*
=20
=20

Hey, look on the bright side: you can get your prostrate checked while=20
you're there.

--
Slacker

Slacker said:

Tetsuo Shima wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looks like it IS the Doc's then. *sigh*

Hey, look on the bright side: you can get your prostrate checked while
you're there.

Nice one, Sipowitz.

Bill "prostrate more for chiropractors" S.

S o r n i said:

Slacker said:

Tetsuo Shima wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looks like it IS the Doc's then. *sigh*

Hey, look on the bright side: you can get your prostrate checked while
you're there.

Nice one, Sipowitz.

Bill "prostrate more for chiropractors" S.

lol .... sheesh, I always get those words mixed up.

Ok, so maybe his doc will have him prostrate in order to check out his
prostate.
--
Slacker