Fork recommendation

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Lissit said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is
a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?

Under $200 I think you are looking at a Winwood Muddy Cross
winwoodbikeparts.commuddyX.htmlOpen ↗

(Dan Lissit) said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is
a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

Surly and other companies sell steel forks-

surlybikes.comforks.htmlOpen ↗

Bike shops often have take-off forks from when people switch
to carbon, etc. Call around.

Hope the dooring didn't hurt you. The one time I have
bene doored, there was $80 damage to my bike and $2000+
to the car.

(Paul Southworth) said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, Dan

Lissit said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda
is a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?

Under $200 I think you are looking at a Winwood Muddy Cross
winwoodbikeparts.commuddyX.htmlOpen ↗

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer
the Muddy Cross until I sold a couple 'cross frames with
the Winwood fork. Both customers complained about severe
brake shudder. To be safe I offered to swap out the
forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself using
the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's
still another bike!).

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR
too scary to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under
braking I could see the knobs "stop" like they were under a
strobe light... kinda like a demonic Antilock Braking
System gone bad.

For a while I thought the problem was a slight bit of
play in the canti posts, but I eliminated that altogether
and it's STILL the same. I swapped the Avid Shorty's out
for a tried and tested pair of Ritchey (Diacompe) cantis
- still the same.

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the
considerable torque from the cantis under braking. So you
get an oscillation as the brakes grab, rotate and release,
then grab again... several times a second.

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike -
about the same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had a
complaint).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 8 Jul 2004 13:29:30 -0700, [email hidden] (Dan

Lissit) said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda
is a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

Surly and other companies sell steel forks-

surlybikes.comforks.htmlOpen ↗

Bike shops often have take-off forks from when people
switch to carbon, etc. Call around.

Hope the dooring didn't hurt you. The one time I have
bene doored, there was $80 damage to my bike and $2000+
to the car.

Thanks for asking. I wish I'd been as lucky as you. I ended
up with a broken collar bone (left) and broken wrist
(right). Good thing percocet plugs you up so efficiently:
that's one service I didn't want to ask of my wife! After 8
weeks the cast just came off my wrist on Wednesday, so I'm
finally ready to deal with getting back in the saddle.

Self hijack: was my endo entirely my doing, or might it have
been related to the state my fork is currently in? I've been
kind of sheepish about the whole accident, never having endo-
ed before despite plenty of emergency stops. I was on my
homeward commute (Rhode Island Ave, DC), using the curb lane
which was about 50/50 parked cars/open. Coming up on a line
of traffic waiting at a light when a passenger in a taxi in
the through lane decided to get out. I thought I had a
chance of squeezing past between the door and the parked
car, and was braking while steering for the gap. Suddenly, I
was airborn. The odd part is that I really don't think I was
panicked: in fact neither I nor my bike-- which landed 10
feet in front of me-- hit the door. So there probably was
enough room to get by. Is it possible that the cause was the
fork failing under extreme braking (both arms are creased
just enough for the wheel to contact the frame), rather than
me locking the wheel and my momentum causing the failure?
I've been planning on calling the passenger, who's in the
police report, to ask if he'll pay for the repairs to my
bike, but it occurred to me that maybe Jamis might be
willing to replace it if this was an equipment failure. I
weigh 175# by the way-- or did before the 8 weeks on my butt--
if that figures into the analysis.

[email hidden] (Dan Lissit) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda
is a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

For many possible candidates go over to Harris Cyclery
website and look at the Quality Bicycle Products catalog
online. QBP. It lists many hybrid/trekking/cross forks.
All with cantilever studs. Your local bike shop can order
any of these.

Mark Hickey said:

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer
the Muddy Cross until I sold a couple 'cross frames with
the Winwood fork. Both customers complained about severe
brake shudder. To be safe I offered to swap out the
forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself using
the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's
still another bike!).

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of this
fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly *reduced*
brake shudder. i had 3" 20hz shudder before. anyway, it
still was too much for comfort so i threw on the disc brake
(which was the backup plan) and that fixed it.

Quoted message said:

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR
too scary to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under
braking I could see the knobs "stop" like they were under
a strobe light... kinda like a demonic Antilock Braking
System gone bad.

people never believed me 'til i showed 'em. scary as [censored].

Quoted message said:

For a while I thought the problem was a slight bit of play
in the canti posts, but I eliminated that altogether and
it's STILL the same. I swapped the Avid Shorty's out for a
tried and tested pair of Ritchey (Diacompe) cantis - still
the same.

a brake bridge made it worse. tried 4 brakes, 4 brake pads,
2 forks, chris king headset ok. worse in wet & humid
conditions.

Quoted message said:

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the
considerable torque from the cantis under braking. So you
get an oscillation as the brakes grab, rotate and release,
then grab again... several times a second.

i'm not so sure. tried both forks on others bikes and they
were ok (even with me @ 175lb on it). my bike is a ti seven.
bicycling had a review of my frame that also made the fork
shudder complaint. neither of the two bikes i tried the
forks on were ti (steel & aluminum) but i realise i'm
reaching here.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike -
about the same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had
a complaint).

i'd be interested in your results .. on the same bike. maybe
a massively overengineered fork will fix the problem, but i
suspect there's another factor involved that necessitates
it. those forks worked ok on other bikes. and no, no, no,
it's not the headset.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of
this fork

i should mention that the independent fabrications fork
was steel.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

If you want a steel fork, I recommend the Kona P2.

David Reuteler said:

Mark Hickey said:

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer
the Muddy Cross until I sold a couple 'cross frames with
the Winwood fork. Both customers complained about severe
brake shudder. To be safe I offered to swap out the
forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself using
the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's
still another bike!).

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of this
fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly *reduced*
brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot beefier
than the canti version. I'd expect it to have less problem
with shudder, at least if you installed disc brakes.

Quoted message said:

i had 3" 20hz shudder before. anyway, it still was too
much for comfort so i threw on the disc brake (which was
the backup plan) and that fixed it.

Quoted message said:

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage -
FAR too scary to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and
under braking I could see the knobs "stop" like they were
under a strobe light... kinda like a demonic Antilock
Braking System gone bad.

people never believed me 'til i showed 'em. scary as [censored].

More than I would have believed before I test rode the bike
in front of the house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the
considerable torque from the cantis under braking. So you
get an oscillation as the brakes grab, rotate and
release, then grab again... several times a second.

i'm not so sure. tried both forks on others bikes and they
were ok (even with me @ 175lb on it). my bike is a ti
seven. bicycling had a review of my frame that also made
the fork shudder complaint. neither of the two bikes i
tried the forks on were ti (steel & aluminum) but i realise
i'm reaching here.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike -
about the same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never
had a complaint).

i'd be interested in your results .. on the same bike.
maybe a massively overengineered fork will fix the problem,
but i suspect there's another factor involved that
necessitates it. those forks worked ok on other bikes. and
no, no, no, it's not the headset.

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically identical
to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had complaints of
brake shudder from any of the other forks that I've sold
with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to imagine the frame being
much of a player in the equation (especially since they're
on the "stiff side" compared to most frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
successfully use the same forks on different frames without
a problem. I can only assume that increasing the head tube
angle (making it steeper) would tend to exacerbate a shudder
problem... is there a difference in HT angle between your ti
Seven and the other frames?

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of this
fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly
*reduced* brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot
beefier than the canti version. I'd expect it to have
less problem with shudder, at least if you installed
disc brakes.

just to be explicit there is absolutely no trace of shudder
when using a disc brake (which is what i'm doing) and less
with the cantis with this fork than with the steel
independent fabrications fork.

Quoted message said:

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically
identical to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had
complaints of brake shudder from any of the other forks
that I've sold with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to
imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
(especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to
most frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
successfully use the same forks on different frames
without a problem. I can only assume that increasing the
head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in
HT angle between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is
comparatively steep to the the independent fabrications
planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees) and the surly @ 72.0
but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

Mark Hickey said:

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of
this fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly
*reduced* brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot
beefier than the canti version. I'd expect it to have
less problem with shudder, at least if you installed disc
brakes.

just to be explicit there is absolutely no trace of shudder
when using a disc brake (which is what i'm doing) and less
with the cantis with this fork than with the steel
independent fabrications fork.

I'm not too surprised - it looks a LOT beefier than the
Winwood "non-disc" 'cross fork. And I wouldn't expect any
shudder with disc brakes, though I guess it's
theoretically possible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically
identical to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had
complaints of brake shudder from any of the other forks
that I've sold with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to
imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
(especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to
most frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
successfully use the same forks on different frames
without a problem. I can only assume that increasing the
head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in
HT angle between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is
comparatively steep to the the independent fabrications
planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees) and the surly @ 72.0
but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.

That almost makes sense - a steeper HT angle would require
less vertical movement of the fork's dropouts when it was
tempted to shudder... or another way to look at it is the
tire would more effectively damp the tendency to shudder the
slacker the HT angle.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

In article <[email hidden]>,
David Reuteler says...

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder.

I changed wheels and got a good case of fork shudder. It has
gradully dimished and is almost gone. i assume brake pad
wear is fixing it. If it happened again I would try sanding
the brake pads and maybe the rim.

Ed said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
David Reuteler says...

Quoted message said:

ahhh, fork shudder.

I changed wheels and got a good case of fork shudder. It
has gradully dimished and is almost gone. i assume brake
pad wear is fixing it. If it happened again I would try
sanding the brake pads and maybe the rim.

sorry, i forgot to mention i tried bontrager fairlanes,
velocity deep v's, mavic open pros and campagnolo shamals, 4
brake pads, i cleaned and dirtied pads and rims all of it
with varying degrees of brake shudder.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm not too surprised - it looks a LOT beefier than the
Winwood "non-disc" 'cross fork. And I wouldn't expect any
shudder with disc brakes, though I guess it's
theoretically possible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically
identical to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had
complaints of brake shudder from any of the other forks
that I've sold with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to
imagine the frame being much of a player in the
equation (especially since they're on the "stiff side"
compared to most frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
successfully use the same forks on different frames
without a problem. I can only assume that increasing
the head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference
in HT angle between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is
comparatively steep to the the independent fabrications
planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees) and the surly @
72.0 but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.

That almost makes sense - a steeper HT angle would require
less vertical movement of the fork's dropouts when it was
tempted to shudder... or another way to look at it is the
tire would more effectively damp the tendency to shudder
the slacker the HT angle.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home
of the $695 ti frame

OP here. Is there any possibility that fork shudder (1st
time I've heard of the issue-- thanks)could have played
a role in the accident I described below? Thanks for
your comments.

(Dan Lissit) said:

OP here. Is there any possibility that fork shudder (1st
time I've heard of the issue-- thanks)could have played a
role in the accident I described below? Thanks for your
comments.

Fork shudder can make a controlled stop that much more
difficult (since it's impossible to modulate the brakes
effectively). It would be a hard sell to say it had a lot to
do with your accident I suppose. You certainly "overbraked"
- if you hadn't noticed any braking shudder previously
chances are very slim it would have occurred this one
particular application of the brakes.

JMHO, of course.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame