*This* close

In article <MPG.1b5793e32a25519198989c@news-
east.giganews.com>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

Quoted message said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

Why 2 hours? How long is the TT?

Quoted message said:

b. I lent my wet-weather gear to a friend who came over
last night so he could get home dry

You won't want to be wearing wet weather gear on a time
trial, getting wet will be the least of your problems :-)
Maybe just for getting there though eh?

Quoted message said:

So, bugger it, going to wait one week. There's another
trial next Sat.

Mm, me thinks you didn't really want to go anyway :-)

God luck next week.

--
Mark (MSA) This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not
volume. Some settling of contents may have occurred during
transmission

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial
tonight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

Quoted message said:

Why 2 hours? How long is the TT?

14 miles.

I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours riding.
I go from about 20 to about 25.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

b. I lent my wet-weather gear to a friend who came over
last night so he could get home dry

You won't want to be wearing wet weather gear on a time
trial, getting wet will be the least of your problems :-)
Maybe just for getting there though eh?

Wet-weather gear in this case just means a goretex jacket.
It's not just about the rain, it's about keeping warm and
breaking the wind chill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, bugger it, going to wait one week. There's another
trial next Sat.

Mm, me thinks you didn't really want to go anyway :-)

No, I really wanted to go. But *properly*, and that
means warm-up.

Quoted message said:

God luck next week.

Merci. If I win, I'll buy everyone in u.r.c. a
chocolate cigar 🙂

--
Callas

Callas said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up
b. I lent my wet-weather gear to a friend who came over
last night so he could get home dry

I think you are already close to achieving a personal best.
TT'ers make an art of excuses ;-)

John B

Callas said:

I came *this* close to doing my first time trial tonight.

However, rain stopped play. It hammered down at about the
time I wanted to leave to warm up - torrential rain plus
hail plus fecking lightning.

I had to turn up because it was an inter-club (we won).
Torrential rain, roads like rivers, burst drains and a
howling gale. I did 28:35 on a Thorn Nomad (about 34lb with
mudguards, rack, lights...), which I thought was actually
rather good.

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours
: riding. I go from about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for anyone
I'd have thought.

30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy,
2 mins race pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace,
potter to start.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Arthur Clune said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours
: riding. I go from about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for
anyone I'd have thought.

And easily carried out by riding the bike to the start
instead of clamping it to one of those tin polluting
thingummies :-)

Now where are those sprint carriers?

John B

JohnB said:

Arthur Clune said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours
: riding. I go from about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for
anyone I'd have thought.

And easily carried out by riding the bike to the start
instead of clamping it to one of those tin polluting
thingummies :-)

Now where are those sprint carriers?

John B

Interesting reading this. I've found I need at least 30-60
mines to get warmed up properly, and 30 mins to re-warm
after a half an hour stop. (Not that I'm into TT's - yet
*grin* - just for normal rides, I find the first 30-60 mins
hard work normally).

Having said that, I *have* noticed if I ride for 20-30 mins
then take a break for 5-10, I can then zip off fine. Which
seems odd - do I actually warm up faster if I stretch the
legs (most cycling is hard work on the legs while warming up
unless I pootle at about 6-7mph) for a short while then
break for a few mins? If I ride through it, the body really
complains, I don't have quite the same oomph in the legs
(relatively speaking!) as later in the ride, and it takes a
lot longer for that to kick in.

I thought it was just down to me being unfit, but maybe not!

--

Velvet

Arthur Clune said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours
: riding. I go from about 20 to about 25.
:

How have you tested this? I suppose you've tried warming up
for 15 mins and then measured your speed and then repeated
the test after 30 min warm-up, 45 min warm-up etc?

Quoted message said:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for
anyone I'd have thought.

30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy,
2 mins race pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace,
potter to start.

Arthur

Quite. Lance suggests about 60 mins warm-up for TTs. I
would think that this is too much for many people who don't
have his level of fitness unless they keep it very easy.
There must be a balance between warming up and getting too
tired before the event starts. It also depends on the
length of the TT.

--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "Some cause happiness
wherever they go; others whenever they go." -Oscar Wilde
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

Quoted message said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't perform at my best until I've done two hours
: riding. I go from about 20 to about 25.
:

An hour's warmup, done properly should be enough for
anyone I'd have thought.

30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins easy,
2 mins race pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race pace,
potter to start.

It might be that I take my time warming up - I don't push
it, particularly; I let my body get there by itself.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>
:> 30 mins easy, 5 mins hard but not race pace, 10 mins
:> easy, 2 mins race pace, 10 mins easy, 1 min above race
:> pace, potter to start.

: It might be that I take my time warming up - I don't push
: it, particularly; I let my body get there by itself.

If you want to do a TT, then you need to warm up well, and
that means efforts at race pace + some hard enough to get
the lacitic acid flowing (starts the body clearing latic).

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Callas said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

That will deplete all your muscle glycogen. I ride to the
start (15-20 mins) then do some stretches. Then I'm off.

Quoted message said:

Callas said:

a. I need two hours riding beforehand to warm up

That will deplete all your muscle glycogen. I ride to the
start (15-20 mins) then do some stretches. Then I'm off.

I find, when riding, that my speed increases over time,
until about two hours have passed, then I'm holding down
52/14, which is my best current sustainable performance. I
cannot hold that down until that much time riding has
passed. If I rode 15/20 minutes and then tried to go fast I
would not match the performance I exhibit after two hours
of riding.

--
Callas

Callas said:

I find, when riding, that my speed increases over time,
until about two hours have passed, then I'm holding down
52/14, which is my best current sustainable performance. I
cannot hold that down until that much time riding has
passed. If I rode 15/20 minutes and then tried to go fast
I would not match the performance I exhibit after two
hours of riding.

I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but you
certainly are going badly wrong somewhere.

How hard do you ride in this "warm up"? What sort of times
do you manage for a 10 and 25?

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. ne.jphomeOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Callas wrote:

Quoted message said:

I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but
you certainly are going badly wrong somewhere.

Or maybe I'm different?

Quoted message said:

How hard do you ride in this "warm up"?

Progressively harder, which is why I get faster.

Quoted message said:

What sort of times do you manage for a 10 and 25?

Never done a TT.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote:
:> Callas wrote:

:> I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but
:> you certainly are going badly wrong somewhere.

: Or maybe I'm different?

Maybe, but there's a huge amount of knowledge out there
about how to approach 10-25 mile TT's are your approach is
way, way different.

:> How hard do you ride in this "warm up"?

: Progressively harder, which is why I get faster.

I'd be very interested in seeing how you go for a TT after
doing your two hours and after doing no more than one hour
but with a much more controlled set of changes in intensity.

People are indeed different, but when you are doing
something so very different to the accepted best practice,
I'd wonder.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Quoted message said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote:
:> Callas wrote:

:> I have no idea how you can be going so badly wrong, but
:> you certainly are going badly wrong somewhere.

: Or maybe I'm different?

Maybe, but there's a huge amount of knowledge out there
about how to approach 10-25 mile TT's are your approach is
way, way different.

*grin*

It hardly so sophisticated as to be an approach. Next
Thursday, when I do the next TT, I'll be warming up for the
first time ever. Warming up for two hours is simply the best
method I yet know of.

Quoted message said:

:> How hard do you ride in this "warm up"?

: Progressively harder, which is why I get faster.

I'd be very interested in seeing how you go for a TT after
doing your two hours and after doing no more than one hour
but with a much more controlled set of changes in
intensity.

Me too. I'd have to get used to the riding that intensity
early in a ride; I don't normally do that till some time
has passed.

Quoted message said:

People are indeed different, but when you are doing
something so very different to the accepted best practice,
I'd wonder.

Don't worry - I don't think this is the best or right
approach; it's merely where I'm starting from.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Me too. I'd have to get used to the riding that intensity
: early in a ride; I don't normally do that till some time
: has passed.

It's hard and feels unpleasant. THat's racing. What happens
for me is that if I warm up (30 mins easy, 3 mins hard,
some easy, 2-3 mins hard again then maybe a third set of
2-3 mins hard and easy) the first time I go hard its
unpleasant, I can't get my intensinty right up and I don't
go that quick. Second and third times get better. After
that it impacts on the TT.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Quoted message said:

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Me too. I'd have to get used to the riding that
: intensity early in a ride; I don't normally do that till
: some time has passed.

It's hard and feels unpleasant. THat's racing. What
happens for me is that if I warm up (30 mins easy, 3 mins
hard, some easy, 2-3 mins hard again then maybe a third
set of 2-3 mins hard and easy) the first time I go hard
its unpleasant, I can't get my intensinty right up and I
don't go that quick. Second and third times get better.
After that it impacts on the TT.

That sounds like my experience. During the course of a long
ride, there come periods of hard exertion, and after some
have passed, the muscles are good to go.

On other matters, I visited your web-site. I didn't know you
were into the C language, Arthur. I'm dedicated to the
language; I started in about 1992, shortly after ANSI C was
published.

--
Callas

Callas <[email hidden]> wrote:

: On other matters, I visited your web-site. I didn't know
: you were into the C language, Arthur. I'm dedicated to the
: language; I started in about 1992, shortly after ANSI C
: was published.

C and Perl. I started C about the same time as you then.
These days it's mainly perl though

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook