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Cylcopaths

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UK and Europe
Published
4 July 2004
Last activity
7 July 2004
Original author
Peter B
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17
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  1. I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was
    impressed by the way cyclists were expected to give way at
    an entrance to a large house.<1> Still, seeing as we only
    cycle 'cos we're poor I suppose it's fair enough <tugs
    forelock, doffs cap and otherwise grovels> and we should be
    grateful someone's donated the money to paint a line down
    the pavement.
    <1> Prior to this discovery my favourite was the one near
    Knighton Park in Leicester where cyclists have to give
    way to cars using the car park entrance. It really does
    give the impression cyclists are second class when
    they're expected to give ROW to motorists on an
    important mission to the park.

    Pete

  2. In "]news:[email hidden],
    Peter B <[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously:

    Quoted message said:

    I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was
    impressed by the way cyclists were expected to give way at
    an entrance to a large house.<1> Still, seeing as we only
    cycle 'cos we're poor I suppose it's fair enough <tugs
    forelock, doffs cap and otherwise grovels> and we should
    be grateful someone's donated the money to paint a line
    down the pavement. <1> Prior to this discovery my
    favourite was the one near Knighton Park in Leicester
    where cyclists have to give way to cars using the car park
    entrance. It really does give the impression cyclists are
    second class when they're expected to give ROW to
    motorists on an important mission to the park.

    Pete

    I avoid roadside cycle paths for that very reason. At each
    junction you lose the right of way that you would
    automatically have on the road. I will use them when it
    suits me, but always pop back onto the road at roundabouts.
    --

    Martin Bulmer

    Pie Conservation Threat

  3. "Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was
    impressed by


    the way

    Quoted message said:

    cyclists were expected to give way at an entrance to a
    large house

    Oh pooh, that's nothing. I once came across a give-way sign
    on the cycle-track alongside the A4 in West London. The give-
    way was to a driveway that led to nothing but a locked gate.

    Even more bizarre was one I came across in Chatham, on the
    road, I don't know its name, that goes alongside the
    historic dockyard.. Here there is not a cycle track, but a
    cycle lane - a lane painted on the road - with its own
    private give way sign painted on the tarmac.

    I suppose one would have to put the sign on the ground
    for that. There isn't a normal road sign saying that on
    some lanes of the road you have to give way, but on
    others you don't.

    Of course, one can easily avoid that give-way by drifting a
    few inches to the right into the next lane.

    The Chatham driveway also led to a locked gate.

    Jeremy parker

  4. "Peter B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I tried another one out of curiosity last week and was
    impressed by the


    way

    Quoted message said:

    cyclists were expected to give way at an entrance to a
    large house.<1> Still, seeing as we only cycle 'cos we're
    poor I suppose it's fair enough <tugs forelock, doffs cap
    and otherwise grovels> and we should be


    grateful

    Quoted message said:

    someone's donated the money to paint a line down the
    pavement.
    <1> Prior to this discovery my favourite was the one near
    Knighton Park


    in

    Quoted message said:

    Leicester where cyclists have to give way to cars using
    the car park entrance. It really does give the impression
    cyclists are second class when they're expected to give
    ROW to motorists on an important mission to the park.

    Pete

    You lot don't even know you've been born.

    Around here*, not only are we required to give way but we
    have to get off as well. All the signs clearly state in
    large lettering or at least used to, the last time I
    bothered to look -

    CYCLISTS DISMOUNT

    As there are CCTV cameras positioned nearby, we all do this
    automatically. As you can imagine.

    Curious

    *Specifically on the "cycle track" on the A4 approaching
    Chiswick Flyover

  5. Jeremy Parker said:

    Oh pooh, that's nothing. I once came across a give-way
    sign on the cycle-track alongside the A4 in West London.
    The give-way was to a driveway that led to nothing but a
    locked gate.

    I've seen them round here which not only have stop lines but
    also cyclist dismount signs at the drives. One day I'm going
    to sneak out at night and attach a "motorists get out and
    push" sign underneath.

    Tony

  6. "Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Even more bizarre was one I came across in Chatham, on the
    road, I don't know its name, that goes alongside the
    historic dockyard.. Here there is not a cycle track, but a
    cycle lane - a lane painted on the road - with its own
    private give way sign painted on the tarmac.

    I suppose one would have to put the sign on the ground
    for that. There isn't a normal road sign saying that on
    some lanes of the road you have to give way, but on
    others you don't.

    Of course, one can easily avoid that give-way by drifting
    a few inches to the right into the next lane.

    An example of this sort of lunacy can be seen at: warringtoncyclecampaign.co.ukfacility of the
    month\April2004.htm

    I suggested to the engineer responsible that he applied for
    a job designing motorway slip lanes.

  7. [email hidden] (Dan Holdsworth)typed

    Quoted message said:

    Heh, I can top that one too.

    Quoted message said:

    On a website that documents the absurdities of certain
    "cycle lanes" is a pucture of the bog-standard green-
    painted cycle path, complete with hi-vis white reflective
    paint edges.

    Quoted message said:

    In the middle of the metre-wide cycle path, sporting its
    very own white painted box, there stands a lamp post. Slap
    bang in the middle of the so-called cycle path.

    Lamp post? That's trivial! Round here, we have one with a
    full-sized phone booth!

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

  8. Tony Raven <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Jeremy Parker said:

    Oh pooh, that's nothing. I once came across a give-way
    sign on the cycle-track alongside the A4 in West London.
    The give-way was to a driveway that led to nothing but a
    locked gate.

    I've seen them round here which not only have stop lines
    but also cyclist dismount signs at the drives. One day I'm
    going to sneak out at night and attach a "motorists get
    out and push" sign underneath.

    What these examples make clear above everything else is that
    the people making all this special provision for cycles do
    not regard them as legitimate vehicles.

    --
    Dave...

    Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive
    measure if it were administered prior to the crime. —
    Woody Allen

  9. Peter Owens said:


    warringtoncyclecampaign.co.ukfacility of the
    month\April2004.htm

    That is Nasty. Any accidents yet?

  10. Peter Owens said:

    An example of this sort of lunacy can be seen at: warringtoncyclecampaign.co.ukfacility of the
    month\April2004.htm

    I suggested to the engineer responsible that he applied
    for a job designing motorway slip lanes.

    I reckon he's on a percentage from the crematorium.

    Colin

  11. "Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message >

    [snip]

    Lamp post? That's trivial! Round here, we have one with a
    full-sized

    Quoted message said:

    phone booth!

    [snip]

    I haven't seen that one myself, but Helen and David showed
    me a photo. Phone booths come and go, like Tardises. There
    was one in Cockfosters for a while, but it's gone now.

    They seem only to appear on bike lanes on the pavement, not
    lanes on the roadway. I think it's the Time Lords trying to
    tell us that vehicles belong in roads

    Here in London, TRL, the Transport Research Lab, the now
    privatised former Ministry of Tranport's Road Research Lab
    has started an investigation into, sorry, review of,
    "procedures associated with the development and delivery of
    measures designed to improve safety and convenience for
    cyclists". The review is being done by Stuart Reid, formerly
    of the CTC, and now working for TRL

    The review was sparked by the various deaths on the bike
    facilities on london's bridges.

    I quote:

    "A range of stakeholders, external to TfL, that are of
    relevance to this project have been identified. These
    stakeholders need to be consulted on their experience of,
    and input to, TfL's development of cycling schemes."

    You and I are not on that list, of course. The London
    Cycling Campaign is, but not the London Bike Messengers
    Association, or the CTC.

    I think it is important that this investigation not be a
    whitewash, and it is important to keep the pressure on the
    LCC. I think the LCC has been part of the problem, by
    campaigning for a "London Cycle Network". London already has
    a cycle network. Every inch of the 8500 miles of London's
    road system is cycle network. To be sure that network can
    be, and should be, improved for bikes in some places, but
    the key word here is "places". London should have a target
    of number of places improved, not a target of number of feet
    of white paint added to road or pavement. Bicycles do not
    need cycle tracks like trams need tram tracks. We already
    have our network, and we should fight what is the first step
    in what the Dutch call "fietsapartheid" - being relegated to
    our own bike bantustans, separate, but never equal..

    Jeremy Parker

    It's long been my rule of thumb that it always takes two
    deaths to get any cycle facility removed. Only local deaths
    count. Deaths in other locations are never in locations that
    are comparable enough to be relevant. That rule was derived
    from my US experience. I doesn't really cheer me to discover
    that it works in London as well.

    Jeremy Parker

  12. On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:18:27 +0100 someone who may be "Jeremy Parker"
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    "A range of stakeholders, external to TfL, that are of
    relevance to this project have been identified. These
    stakeholders need to be consulted on their experience of,
    and input to, TfL's development of cycling schemes."

    You and I are not on that list, of course. The London
    Cycling Campaign is, but not the London Bike Messengers
    Association, or the CTC.

    That is disgraceful. Do the road research laboratory give
    explanations for excluding the latter two?

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
    F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
    government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

  13. On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:18:27 +0100, "Jeremy Parker"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    You and I are not on that list, of course. The London
    Cycling Campaign is, but not the London Bike Messengers
    Association, or the CTC.

    Are CCN or C-PAG? If so, CTC will be represented.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  14. "Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Peter Owens said:



    warringtoncyclecampaign.co.ukfacility of the
    month\April2004.htm

    Quoted message said:


    That is Nasty. Any accidents yet?


    Not that I know of - its only been there a few months.

    But it gets worse... They took a group of NW cycling
    officers on a tour (including the offending facility) as
    part of the CTC benchmarking project - and none of them
    could understand the problem.

    They commisionned a safety audit for the junction and the
    auditors didn't bat an eylid. Though safety auditors do seem
    to get extremely excited about any facility that takes
    cyclists away from the gutter.

  15. "Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Here in London, TRL, the Transport Research Lab, the now
    privatised former Ministry of Tranport's Road Research Lab
    has started an investigation into, sorry, review of,
    "procedures associated with the development and delivery
    of measures designed to improve safety and convenience for
    cyclists". The review is being done by Stuart Reid,
    formerly of the CTC, and now working for TRL

    Are these the incidents where cycle lanes are in the middle
    of the road?

  16. "Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I think the LCC has been part of the problem, by
    campaigning for a "London Cycle Network". London already
    has a cycle network. Every inch of the 8500 miles of
    London's road system is cycle network.

    WHS

    --
    Dave...

    I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge
    to conquer Poland. — Woody Allen

  17. "Peter Owens" <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    "Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Here in London, TRL, the Transport Research Lab, the now
    privatised former Ministry of Tranport's Road Research
    Lab has started an investigation into, sorry, review of,
    "procedures associated with the development and delivery
    of measures designed to improve safety and convenience
    for cyclists". The review is being done by Stuart Reid,
    formerly of the CTC, and now working for TRL

    Quoted message said:

    Are these the incidents where cycle lanes are in the
    middle of the road?

    The Blackfriars Bridge incident was :-(

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

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