To see ourselves --------

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first consider
where they are coming from. Some show anger by the way they
express themselves, some have an alliance with a radical
group, there should be some balance of thoughts, some have
no credentials to be speaking about the subject they are
speaking about.

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who was a
nurse and has had no experience with holistic healing. She
writes with anger (a sure sign of illness) for a radical
organization that seems to desire to blindly stamp out
holistic medicine.

The result is that it reads as propoganda not truthful
information.

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40e73384$0$18336$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

"Tourists in Altland".

geocities.comtourists.htmlOpen ↗

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Subject: To see ourselves -------- From: "Peter Moran"
[email hidden] Date: 7/3/2004 2:33 PM Pacific Standard
Time Message-id: <40e73384$0$18336$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>

"Tourists in Altland".

geocities.comtourists.htmlOpen ↗

The Quackfiles ah.

Strange I don't see Dr Wilson's name there.

Wonder why??

OH YEAH, it's owned by Paul Lee!!

This is a skeptical and biased website! (*)

Heavy on the BIASED.

That's why Peter Moran posts it.

Go figure.

Jan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Wickware said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first consider
where they are coming from.

Reasonable. You are coming from "how can I make a buck off
the rubes by selling them worthless and/or overpriced
products?"

Quoted message said:

Some show anger by the way they express themselves, some
have an alliance with a radical group, there should be some
balance of thoughts, some have no credentials to be
speaking about the subject they are speaking about.

Well, that last certainly describes you. Aren't you the guy
who had arteries and veins backwards?

Quoted message said:

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who was
a nurse and has had no experience with holistic healing.
She writes with anger (a sure sign of illness)

No, a common sign of irritation with you, Spammin' Dave.

Quoted message said:

for a radical organization that seems to desire to blindly
stamp out holistic medicine.

The result is that it reads as propoganda not truthful
information.

And your stuff reads like a sales pitch written by an
ignoramus, which is far worse.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
consider where they are coming from. Some show anger by
the way they express themselves, some have an alliance
with a radical group, there should be some balance of
thoughts, some have no credentials to be speaking about

the

Quoted message said:

subject they are speaking about.

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who was
a nurse and has had no experience with holistic healing.
She writes with anger (a sure sign of illness) for a
radical organization that seems to desire to blindly stamp
out holistic medicine.

I liked it because of her perceptiveness and eloquence. But
if you look at all the evidence the things she specifically
targets are mostly transparent nonsense and are regarded as
dubious even by a lot of more sensible alt supporters.

Everyone thinks medicine should be holistic, but does
alt.med truly practice that way? It mostly gives the
patient a glib pseudiagnosis, usually whatever is in
fashion at the time. Nowadays it's usually "the toxins".
The patient is sent on their way with a variety of measures
to "treat" that.

Far from having a truly holistic approach to illness, half
of alt.med wants to deny that psychosomatic factors can be
contributory, and seeks an external physical cause for every
complaint, such as amalgams or parasites. Another section of
alt.med thinks all illness, even cancer,. is psychosomatic
and the patient's fault if they cannot deal with it. Not
very holistic either.

Don't even get me started on spirituality, which is an even
less focussed alt.med buzz-word, as often as not causing
offense to those with real spiritual connections with
fanciful pseudoscientific gabblings.

You know all this is true. You only have to open your eyes.

Peter Moran

(Jan) said:

OH YEAH, it's owned by Paul Lee!!

Paul Lee is a drug-free, alternative medicine practitioner.
He has a child with a problem that conventional medicine HAS
NO ANSWER FOR. (My niece has the same problem.)

--
Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project
ratbags.comrsolesOpen ↗ The Green Light
ratbags.comgreenlightOpen ↗ Quintessence of the Loon
ratbags.comloonOpen ↗ To email me use my first name
only at ratbags.com

In the world of intuitive healing anger is one of the
defining signs of someone who is unhealthy. I must ask you
what illness you are aware of having?

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, Dave

Wickware said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
consider where they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming from.

Reasonable. You are coming from "how can I make a buck off
the rubes by selling them worthless and/or overpriced
products?"

Quoted message said:

Some show anger by the way they express themselves, some
have an alliance with a radical group, there should be
some balance of thoughts, some have no credentials to be
speaking about the subject they are speaking about.

Well, that last certainly describes you. Aren't you the
guy who had arteries and veins backwards?

Quoted message said:

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who
was a nurse and has had no experience with holistic
healing. She writes with anger (a sure sign of illness)

No, a common sign of irritation with you, Spammin' Dave.

Quoted message said:

for a radical organization that seems to desire to
blindly stamp out holistic medicine.

The result is that it reads as propoganda not truthful
information.

And your stuff reads like a sales pitch written by an
ignoramus, which is far worse.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
consider where they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming from. Some show anger by the way they express
themselves, some have an alliance with a radical group,
there should be some balance of thoughts, some have no
credentials to be speaking about

the

Quoted message said:

subject they are speaking about.

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who
was a nurse and

has

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had no experience with holistic healing. She writes with
anger (a sure sign of illness) for a radical
organization that seems to desire to blindly stamp out
holistic medicine.

I liked it because of her perceptiveness and eloquence.
But if you look

at

Quoted message said:

all the evidence the things she specifically targets
are mostly

transparent

Quoted message said:

nonsense and are regarded as dubious even by a lot of more
sensible alt supporters.

Everyone thinks medicine should be holistic, but does
alt.med truly

practice

Quoted message said:

that way? It mostly gives the patient a glib
pseudiagnosis, usually whatever is in fashion at the time.
Nowadays it's usually "the toxins". The patient is sent on
their way with a variety of measures to "treat" that.

Far from having a truly holistic approach to illness, half
of alt.med

wants

Quoted message said:

to deny that psychosomatic factors can be contributory,
and seeks an external physical cause for every complaint,
such as amalgams or

parasites.

Quoted message said:

Another section of alt.med thinks all illness, even
cancer,. is psychosomatic and the patient's fault if they
cannot deal with it. Not very holistic either.

Don't even get me started on spirituality, which is an
even less focussed alt.med buzz-word, as often as not
causing offense to those with real spiritual connections
with fanciful pseudoscientific gabblings.

Now you display who you are. All living things are spiritual
beings. Your confusion seems to cause you to believe that
there are different kinds of spirituality. You seem to imply
that there is one kind for people who understand wholistic
healing, and another kind that is your kind. In truth there
is spirituality or a vacant abyss. Spirituality is merely
the understanding of the foregoing and healers are connected
with their spiritually. Those who deny the existence of some
kind of spirit who created us is, described as a lost soul.

I am always curious to know who you think designed the human
body? Who designed the elaborate interaction throughout the
natural world. I had a doctor in the not too distant past
explain to me that when nature fails us medical science is
there to pick us up. This is what I refer to as severe
arrogance disillusionment. It describes the shortcomings of
some physicians.

You recently told me you were a healer because you removed
diaeased body parts from sick people. Well, if you were
able to step back and open your mind, talk to someone with
some understanding of healing, you would discover that
removing body parts is not healing, it is mutilation. The
reason I say that is simply because a diseased organ can be
restored by treating the underlying cause of the disease.
Once the cause of the problem is addressed the person can
be healed by their own body. That is what healing is and it
is rarely, if ever experienced by traditional physicians. I
work with small but growing number of practising physicians
who have opened their minds and are beginning to heal
people. A fully trained holistic M.D. is the way our
society can begin to win.

"Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Jan) said:

OH YEAH, it's owned by Paul Lee!!

Paul Lee is a drug-free, alternative medicine
practitioner. He has a child with a problem that
conventional medicine HAS NO ANSWER FOR. (My niece has the
same problem.)

Not this one:

geocities.comabout paul lee.htmlOpen ↗

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:40e75227$0$18336$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
consider where they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming from. Some show anger by the way they express
themselves, some have an alliance with a radical
group, there should be some balance of thoughts, some
have no credentials to be speaking

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

subject they are speaking about.

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who
was a nurse and

has

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had no experience with holistic healing. She writes
with anger (a sure sign of illness) for a radical
organization that seems to desire to blindly stamp out
holistic medicine.

I liked it because of her perceptiveness and eloquence.
But if you

look

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

all the evidence the things she specifically targets are
mostly

transparent

Quoted message said:

nonsense and are regarded as dubious even by a lot of
more sensible alt supporters.

Everyone thinks medicine should be holistic, but does
alt.med truly

practice

Quoted message said:

that way? It mostly gives the patient a glib
pseudiagnosis, usually whatever is in fashion at the
time. Nowadays it's usually "the

toxins".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The patient is sent on their way with a variety of
measures to "treat" that.

Far from having a truly holistic approach to illness,
half of alt.med

wants

Quoted message said:

to deny that psychosomatic factors can be contributory,
and seeks an external physical cause for every
complaint, such as amalgams or

parasites.

Quoted message said:

Another section of alt.med thinks all illness, even
cancer,. is psychosomatic and the patient's fault if
they cannot deal with it. Not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very holistic either.

Don't even get me started on spirituality, which is an
even less

focussed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alt.med buzz-word, as often as not causing offense to
those with real spiritual connections with fanciful
pseudoscientific gabblings.

Now you display who you are. All living things are
spiritual beings. Your confusion seems to cause you to
believe that there are different kinds of spirituality.
You seem to

imply

Quoted message said:

that there is one kind for people who understand wholistic
healing, and another kind that is your kind. In truth
there is spirituality or a vacant abyss. Spirituality is
merely the understanding of the foregoing and

healers

Quoted message said:

are connected with their spiritually. Those who deny the
existence of some kind of spirit who created us is,
described as a lost soul.

I am always curious to know who you think designed the
human body? Who designed the elaborate interaction
throughout the natural world. I had a doctor in the not
too distant past explain to me that when nature fails us
medical science is there to pick us up. This is what I
refer to as severe arrogance disillusionment. It describes
the shortcomings of some

physicians.

Quoted message said:

You recently told me you were a healer because you removed
diaeased body parts from sick people. Well, if you were
able to step back and open your mind, talk to someone with

some

Quoted message said:

understanding of healing, you would discover that removing
body parts is not healing, it is mutilation. The reason I
say that is simply because a diseased organ can be
restored by treating the underlying cause of the disease.
Once the cause of the problem is addressed the person can
be healed by their own body. That is what healing is and
it is rarely, if ever experienced by traditional
physicians. I work with small but growing number of
practising physicians who have opened their minds and are
beginning to heal people. A fully trained holistic M.D. is
the way our society can begin to win.

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:40e75227$0$18336$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
consider where they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming from. Some show anger by the way they express
themselves, some have an alliance with a radical
group, there should be some balance of thoughts, some
have no credentials to be speaking

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

subject they are speaking about.

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who
was a nurse and

has

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had no experience with holistic healing. She writes
with anger (a sure sign of illness) for a radical
organization that seems to desire to blindly stamp out
holistic medicine.

I liked it because of her perceptiveness and eloquence.
But if you

look

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

all the evidence the things she specifically targets are
mostly

transparent

Quoted message said:

nonsense and are regarded as dubious even by a lot of
more sensible alt supporters.

Everyone thinks medicine should be holistic, but does
alt.med truly

practice

Quoted message said:

that way? It mostly gives the patient a glib
pseudiagnosis, usually whatever is in fashion at the
time. Nowadays it's usually "the

toxins".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The patient is sent on their way with a variety of
measures to "treat" that.

Far from having a truly holistic approach to illness,
half of alt.med

wants

Quoted message said:

to deny that psychosomatic factors can be contributory,
and seeks an external physical cause for every
complaint, such as amalgams or

parasites.

Quoted message said:

Another section of alt.med thinks all illness, even
cancer,. is psychosomatic and the patient's fault if
they cannot deal with it. Not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very holistic either.

Don't even get me started on spirituality, which is an
even less

focussed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alt.med buzz-word, as often as not causing offense to
those with real spiritual connections with fanciful
pseudoscientific gabblings.

Now you display who you are. All living things are
spiritual beings. Your confusion seems to cause you to
believe that there are different kinds of spirituality.
You seem to

imply

Quoted message said:

that there is one kind for people who understand wholistic
healing, and another kind that is your kind. In truth
there is spirituality or a vacant abyss. Spirituality is
merely the understanding of the foregoing and healers are
connected with their spiritually. Those who deny the
existence of some kind of spirit who created us is,
described as a lost soul.

I am always curious to know who you think designed the
human body? Who designed the elaborate interaction
throughout the natural world. I had a doctor in the not
too distant past explain to me that when nature fails us
medical science is there to pick us up. This is what I
refer to as severe arrogance disillusionment. It describes
the shortcomings of some

physicians.

Quoted message said:

You recently told me you were a healer because you removed
diaeased body parts from sick people. Well, if you were
able to step back and open your mind, talk to someone with

some

Quoted message said:

understanding of healing, you would discover that removing
body parts is not healing, it is mutilation. The reason I
say that is simply because a diseased organ can be
restored by treating the underlying cause of the disease.
Once the cause of the problem is addressed the person can
be healed by their own body. That is what healing is and
it is rarely, if ever experienced by traditional
physicians. I work with small but growing number of
practising physicians who have opened their minds and are
beginning to heal people. A fully trained holistic M.D. is
the way our society can begin to win.

This is what I mean by lack of focus. This tripe is from
someone who insists that the wonders of ginseng will heal
all. If "spiritual" healers need such artificial aids, and
ones which are clearly not directed at the cause of any
illness, what is wrong with drugs and surgeons?

Even if you happen to have found a healer with pretensions
to any deep spiritual understanding ( a supremely arrogant
claim), it does not detract from my assertion that most of
the medical attentions that alt.med offers have nothing at
all to do with any interpretation of (w)holism. It is mostly
" but my stuff and you will get well". And you know it. You
even promote it.

Peter Moran

"M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-July 4, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t

Quoted message said:

"Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Jan) said:

OH YEAH, it's owned by Paul Lee!!

Paul Lee is a drug-free, alternative medicine
practitioner. He has a child with a problem that
conventional medicine HAS NO ANSWER FOR. (My niece has
the same problem.)

Not this one:

geocities.comabout paul lee.htmlOpen ↗

Yes, it is that one. Paul is a physical therapist, hence my
use of the term "drug-free" (an expression beloved by
chiroquactors). He has made no secret of the fact that one
of his kids has Aspberger's Syndrome, for which conventional
medicine has no answer.

Paul and I have both been sued by Hulda Clark.

--
Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project
ratbags.comrsolesOpen ↗ The Green Light
ratbags.comgreenlightOpen ↗ Quintessence of the Loon
ratbags.comloonOpen ↗ To email me use my first name
only at ratbags.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Wickware said:

In the world of intuitive healing anger is one of the
defining signs of someone who is unhealthy. I must ask you
what illness you are aware of having?

I'm not aware of having any illnesses, other than feeling
queasy every time I read the latest load of horse manure
you've posted to m.h.a.

I'm also not angry -- except with spamming vermin like you.
It's not as though you're able to defend what you write. Now
you're moving on to an attempt to attack me by claiming that
I'm "angry." Even if that were true, you're still a spamming
scumbag who posts gibberish.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, Dave

Wickware said:

Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
consider where they

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming from.

Reasonable. You are coming from "how can I make a buck
off the rubes by selling them worthless and/or overpriced
products?"

Quoted message said:

Some show anger by the way they express themselves, some
have an alliance with a radical group, there should be
some balance of thoughts, some have no credentials to be
speaking about the subject they are speaking about.

Well, that last certainly describes you. Aren't you the
guy who had arteries and veins backwards?

Quoted message said:

I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet who
was a nurse and has had no experience with holistic
healing. She writes with anger (a sure sign of illness)

No, a common sign of irritation with you, Spammin' Dave.

Quoted message said:

for a radical organization that seems to desire to
blindly stamp out holistic medicine.

The result is that it reads as propoganda not truthful
information.

And your stuff reads like a sales pitch written by an
ignoramus, which is far worse.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave Wickware said:

Now you display who you are. All living things are
spiritual beings.

Define "spiritual," Spammin' Dave. Bet you can't do it.

Quoted message said:

Those who deny the existence of some kind of spirit who
created us is, described as a lost soul.

No, they are described as "atheists." And if some spirit
created you, I think it should be fired and replaced by one
that can do a better job.

Quoted message said:

I am always curious to know who you think designed the
human body? Who designed the elaborate interaction
throughout the natural world. I had a doctor in the not too
distant past explain to me that when nature fails us
medical science is there to pick us up. This is what I
refer to as severe arrogance disillusionment. It describes
the shortcomings of some physicians.

No, your inability to grasp it describes the severe
limitations of your intelligence.

Quoted message said:

You recently told me you were a healer because you removed
diaeased body parts from sick people. Well, if you were
able to step back and open your mind, talk to someone with
some understanding of healing, you would discover that
removing body parts is not healing, it is mutilation.

And not removing them can cause death. I'll go with Peter
Moran on this one. Better to not have to remove them, but
I'll suffer the removal if the alternative is worse.

Quoted message said:

The reason I say that is simply because a diseased
organ can be restored by treating the underlying cause
of the disease.

Ah, the usual song of the quack. You can treat the
"underlying cause," which it just so happens that you know,
and are ready to sell us. Sure you can.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:40e75227$0$18336$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
al.com...
> Whenever I look at the thoughts of someone I first
> consider where

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are

Quoted message said:

> coming from. Some show anger by the way they express
> themselves, some have an alliance with

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> radical group, there should be some balance of
> thoughts, some have no credentials to be speaking

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> subject they are speaking about.
>
> I read this dissertation by a person who is a poet
> who was a nurse

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has

Quoted message said:

> had no experience with holistic healing. She writes
> with anger (a sure sign of illness) for a

radical

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> organization that seems to desire to blindly stamp
> out holistic medicine.

I liked it because of her perceptiveness and
eloquence. But if you

look

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

all the evidence the things she specifically targets
are mostly

transparent

Quoted message said:

nonsense and are regarded as dubious even by a lot of
more sensible

alt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

supporters.

Everyone thinks medicine should be holistic, but does
alt.med truly

practice

Quoted message said:

that way? It mostly gives the patient a glib
pseudiagnosis, usually whatever is in fashion at the
time. Nowadays it's usually "the

toxins".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The patient is sent on their way with a variety of
measures to

"treat"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that.

Far from having a truly holistic approach to illness,
half of alt.med

wants

Quoted message said:

to deny that psychosomatic factors can be
contributory, and seeks an external physical cause for
every complaint, such as amalgams or

parasites.

Quoted message said:

Another section of alt.med thinks all illness, even
cancer,. is psychosomatic and the patient's fault if
they cannot deal with it.

Not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very holistic either.

Don't even get me started on spirituality, which is an
even less

focussed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

alt.med buzz-word, as often as not causing offense to
those with real spiritual connections with fanciful
pseudoscientific gabblings.

Now you display who you are. All living things are
spiritual beings.

Your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

confusion seems to cause you to believe that there are
different kinds of spirituality. You seem to

imply

Quoted message said:

that there is one kind for people who understand
wholistic healing, and another kind that is your kind.
In truth there is spirituality or a vacant abyss.
Spirituality is merely the understanding of the
foregoing and healers are connected with their
spiritually. Those who deny the existence of some kind
of spirit who created us is, described as a lost soul.

I am always curious to know who you think designed the
human body? Who designed the elaborate interaction
throughout the natural world. I had a doctor in the not
too distant past explain to me that when nature fails

us

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medical science is there to pick us up. This is what I
refer to as

severe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

arrogance disillusionment. It describes the shortcomings
of some

physicians.

Quoted message said:

You recently told me you were a healer because you
removed diaeased body parts from sick people. Well, if
you were able to step back and open your mind, talk to
someone with

some

Quoted message said:

understanding of healing, you would discover that
removing body parts is not healing, it is

mutilation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The reason I say that is simply because a diseased organ
can be restored by treating the underlying cause of the
disease. Once the cause of the problem is addressed the
person can be healed by their own body. That is what
healing is and it is rarely, if ever experienced by
traditional physicians. I work with small but growing
number of practising physicians who have opened their
minds and are beginning to heal people. A fully trained
holistic M.D. is the

way

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

our society can begin to win.

This is what I mean by lack of focus. This tripe is from
someone who insists that the wonders of ginseng will heal
all. If "spiritual" healers need such artificial aids, and
ones which are clearly not directed at the cause of any
illness, what is wrong with drugs and surgeons?

Even if you happen to have found a healer with pretensions
to any deep spiritual understanding ( a supremely arrogant
claim), it does not detract from my assertion that most of
the medical attentions that alt.med offers have nothing at
all to do with any interpretation of (w)holism. It is
mostly " but my stuff and you will get well". And you know
it. You even promote it.

Peter Moran

Actually I promote the healing of sick people by many means.
I don't sell anything to the public. I teach about ginseng
to people who need to know. To refer to spiritual
understanding as supreme arrogance is the single most
ignorant thing you have ever said. You display a total lack
of understanding of anything vaguely related to healing.

Tell me who YOU think designed you? The Easter Bunny?

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>, Dave

Wickware said:

Now you display who you are. All living things are
spiritual beings.

Define "spiritual," Spammin' Dave. Bet you can't do it.

Quoted message said:

Those who deny the existence of some kind of spirit who
created us is, described as a lost soul.

No, they are described as "atheists." And if some spirit
created you, I think it should be fired and replaced by
one that can do a better job.

Quoted message said:

I am always curious to know who you think designed the
human body? Who designed the elaborate interaction
throughout the natural world. I had a doctor in the not
too distant past explain to me that when nature fails us
medical science is there to pick us up. This is what I
refer to as severe arrogance disillusionment. It
describes the shortcomings of some physicians.

No, your inability to grasp it describes the severe
limitations of your intelligence.

Quoted message said:

You recently told me you were a healer because you
removed diaeased body parts from sick people. Well, if
you were able to step back and open your mind, talk to
someone with some understanding of healing, you would
discover that removing body parts is not healing, it is
mutilation.

And not removing them can cause death. I'll go with Peter
Moran on this one. Better to not have to remove them, but
I'll suffer the removal if the alternative is worse.

Quoted message said:

The reason I say that is simply because a diseased organ
can be restored by treating the underlying cause of the
disease.

Ah, the usual song of the quack. You can treat the
"underlying cause," which it just so happens that you
know, and are ready to sell us. Sure you can.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

But Jan, what was the LIE you are accusing me of telling?

What were my EXACT ORIGINAL WORDS which formed a LIE?

Why don't you you ever post an example of one of these LIES
you claim I told?

Why is that?

Why don't you post an example of an ORIGINAL STATEMENT made
by me which is a LIE?

Do you need help seeing what an ORIGINAL STATEMENT which is
a LIE looks like? Let me help you.

To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:w.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-
m01.aol.com

Jan said:

Quoted message said:

From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to
discredit you by making insinuations about who you are or
what your motives may be.

Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have
NEVER accused

anyone of

Quoted message said:

any such thing.

So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid
shills -----

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-
fn.aol.com

Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing
starts. Mostly comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-
fw.aol.com

Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives
off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-
ct.aol.com

As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-
mn.aol.com

As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names
when in fact he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his
own people.

(Jan) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: To see ourselves -------- From: "Peter Moran"
[email hidden] Date: 7/3/2004 4:44 PM Pacific Standard
Time Message-id: <40e75227$0$18336$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Peter, I am still waiting for you to
show us all that kindness you claimed. Can't. That's
what I thought. You are labeled as a LIAR, becuase you
made it up!!!!!!

Therefore we can't believe a cotton pickin thing you say.

And for the next ten years we have to look forward to
Jan reminding
Dr. Moran that he did not show us "all the kindness he
claimed" and repeatedly (and falsely) call him a liar.
This is Jan Drew's pattern. She repeatedly attacks
people if they don't answer her stupid questions. She
tries to bait them into getting angry by falsely
accusing them of anger. If Dr. Moran got angry at Jan
then Jan would use that anger to discredit him. She
might comment on his lack of bedside manner. It is so
predictable.

Jan is such a hateful and angry woman. Lord knows what if
anything happened in her life to make her so bitter. Sadly
she has no clue into her own anger. Instead she believes
that those who disagree with her POV are angry, badgers them
into getting angry which then confirms her own belief that
it is others, not her, who have the problem with anger. This
is one very sick lady.

Jan claims she is a Christian. Jesus's words have been
posted repeatedly regarding not judging others if you are
guilty of what you are charging them. Not only is Dr. Moran
not lying but Jan is guilty of repeated lying.

In case Jan does not know what a lie is:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to
discredit you by making insinuations about who you are or
what your motives may be.

Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have
NEVER accused

anyone of

Quoted message said:

any such thing.

So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid
shills -----

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-
fn.aol.com

Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing
starts. Mostly comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-
fw.aol.com

Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives
off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-
ct.aol.com

As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-
mn.aol.com

As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names
when in fact he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his
own people.

Jan Drew has had the opportunity to respond to the above.
She obviously has read it since she responds directly to
the posts where it is written. But instead of addressing
the allegation that she lied, Jan tries to divert
attention by changing the subject. This is the behavior of
a guilty person.

Jan Drew knows that when she said that she never said
anything of the sort when she was accused to saying that
someone was getting paid by pharma company, that she was
lying. Her ego won't let her admit the truth. She tries to
falsely hide behind Christianity while she acts completely
disrespectfully of the words of Jesus Christ. She spits on
the words of Jesus.

Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor. How
often does Jan falsely accuse others of lying, stalking,
being members of EOM?? And she wonders why she becomes the
focus of discussion here?? Lord have mercy on Jan's soul.

Aloha,

Rich
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

But Jan, what was the LIE you are accusing me of telling?

What were my EXACT ORIGINAL WORDS which formed a LIE?

Why don't you you ever post an example of one of these LIES
you claim I told?

Why is that?

Why don't you post an example of an ORIGINAL STATEMENT made
by me which is a LIE?

Do you need help seeing what an ORIGINAL STATEMENT which is
a LIE looks like? Let me help you.

To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:w.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-
m01.aol.com

Jan said:

Quoted message said:

From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to
discredit you by making insinuations about who you are or
what your motives may be.

Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have
NEVER accused

anyone of

Quoted message said:

any such thing.

So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid
shills -----

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-
fn.aol.com

Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing
starts. Mostly comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-
fw.aol.com

Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives
off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-
ct.aol.com

As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-
mn.aol.com

As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names
when in fact he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his
own people.

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Therefore we can't believe a cotton pickin thing you say.

"We"???? Who appointed you mouthpiece for anyone?

rest of DrewDrivel deleted.