Stroke improvement tips

Ranjit said:

Hi,

I am an intermittent swimmer but now plan to swim on
regular basis. I mostly swim using the free style, but have
noticed that my stroke is pretty naive. My primary concern
is that I can't seem to pedal my legs at a faster pace. My
arm strokes and leg pedal are in sync and I pedal once for
one arm stroke.

When I try to pedal at a faster rate, I mess up my arm
strokes 🙂.
( Ihave been a casual swimmer for about 15 years). Can
someone please suggest me tips to rectify my problem?
Would a kickboard help? Thanks in advance.

- Ranjit

It isn't really a problem. You are using a two beat kick,
which is used by quite a lot of masters swimmers. If you
want to move up to the 6 beat kick, using a kickboard will
help you develop the kick, but the only way to get it
balanced with your stroke (that I know of) is to keep
swimming with it, until your brain figures it out. It is one
of those you learn by doing, like playing different parts of
the tune on the piano with each hand.

Ranjit:

The legs have big muscles. They burn a lot of oxigen. The
arms have less muscle mass. However, in swimming, the legs
do little to propel you. The hands and arms do most of the
work, so you do not want to expend too much energy in
kicking. Kicking a lot is useful for sprints. However for
swimming distance, you should focus on improving your form
while kicking very little.

If your legs follow your body w/o sinking, you are in good
shape. If your legs sink, dragging you down and getting you
tired, kicking is not the solution. To lift the legs, try
pointing the toes back, not down. Also, try to lift your
butt by arching the lower back. With pointed toes and an
arched back, you legs should float. Use them for balance,
one kick per arm stroke. Do not pedal. In other words, do
not bend your knees when you kick. focus on starting the
kick from the hip.

Also, a kick board will help, as Martin suggests. When you
kick, hold the board from the round edge with the rest of
the board being under your arms. Your elbows should be
locked with your arms stretched. If you are not used to
kicking, you may get cramps in your hamstrings. This is
because the kickboard is forcing you to arch your back,
pulling on your hamstrings. While this is a nasty feeling,
it is forcing you to get good swimming posture. also, always
point your toes when kicking. Try to feel your legs going
down and the water pushing up against your toes. Again, kick
from your hips, not from your knees.

Andres

"Ranjit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<2k93egF191gbbU1@uni-
berlin.de>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am an intermittent swimmer but now plan to swim on
regular basis. I mostly swim using the free style, but
have noticed that my stroke is pretty naive. My primary
concern is that I can't seem to pedal my legs at a faster
pace. My arm strokes and leg pedal are in sync and I pedal
once for one arm stroke.

When I try to pedal at a faster rate, I mess up my arm
strokes 🙂.
( Ihave been a casual swimmer for about 15 years). Can
someone please suggest me tips to rectify my problem?
Would a kickboard help? Thanks in advance.

- Ranjit

There is a school of thought (including but not limited to
the TI people) that believes that use of a kickboard is a
bad idea as you kick in an unnatural position with the head
up and a highly arched back Also the kickboard creates a lot
of drag and loses you the opportunity to practise your
streamline whilst kicking. If fact I never used a kickboard
for this reason even before I started on the TI thing.

The suggestion is that you should practise kicking on you
side with one arm extended in front and the other back by
your side. You head should look down most of the time,
except when you breath (which is achieved by rotating
your head to face the ceiling, assisted by rolling your
body somewhat)

The advantage of this is that you practice kicking in a
position much closer to swimming position.

Now I know that there are people on this newsgroup who will
disagree with this - but I thought you should hear a range
of opinions on the subject since the kickboard enthusiasts
have already had their say.

In message <[email hidden]>, Ada Ma
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

andres muro said:

Also, a kick board will help, as Martin suggests. When
you kick, hold the board from the round edge with the
rest of the board being under your arms. Your elbows
should be locked with your arms stretched.

Hello. Reading your description on how to use the kickboard
I have a question - I find that using the kickboard put a
lot of stress on my shoulders, especially the joints. It's
gone so bad that my shoulders are prone to injuries
especially if I do the freestyle right after I do the
kickboard. I also think part of my problem is that my
spine/back is very arched, it caves towards the front much
further than the average human being, which contributes to
the strees I put on my shoulders as I use the kickboard.
Are there other ways of holding the board that would put
less stress on the shoulders?

--
Richard Cant

"Ranjit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am an intermittent swimmer but now plan to swim on
regular basis. I mostly swim using the free style, but
have noticed that my stroke is pretty naive.

<snip>

OK ! I figured out that my technique needs a complete over-
haul. Following are the areas I need to work on
1. Swim in sideways rotation, instead flat on my torso.
2. Not bending legs while kicking.
3. Trying to breath from alternate sides when swimming with
essentially head down.

Now, when I try to implement all these at time, it really
screws up my rhythm. I was wondering if I should still stick
to getting everything right in the first place or it would
be better to get one thing straight at time. Any
suggestions?

As usual, TIA 🙂.

Ranjit

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ranjit said:

Hi,

My primary concern is that I can't seem to pedal my legs
at a faster

pace.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My arm strokes and leg pedal are in sync and I pedal once
for one arm stroke.

- Ranjit

It isn't really a problem. You are using a two beat kick,
which is used by quite a lot of masters swimmers. If you
want to move up to the

Thanks Martin. It's so good to know that I am not
terribly wrong 🙂.

"andres muro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ranjit:

The legs have big muscles. They burn a lot of oxigen. The
arms have less muscle mass. However, in swimming, the legs
do little to propel you. The hands and arms do most of the
work, so you do not want to expend too much energy in
kicking. Kicking a lot is useful for sprints. However for
swimming distance, you should focus on improving your form
while kicking very little.

If your legs follow your body w/o sinking, you are in good
shape. If your legs sink, dragging you down and getting
you tired, kicking is not the solution. To lift the legs,
try pointing the toes back, not down. Also, try to lift
your butt by arching the lower back. With pointed toes and
an arched back, you legs should float. Use them for
balance, one kick per arm stroke. Do not pedal. In other
words, do not bend your knees when you kick. focus on
starting the kick from the hip.

Also, a kick board will help, as Martin suggests. When you
kick, hold the board from the round edge with the rest of
the board being under your arms. Your elbows should be
locked with your arms stretched. If you are not used to
kicking, you may get cramps in your hamstrings. This is
because the kickboard is forcing you to arch your back,
pulling on your hamstrings. While this is a nasty feeling,
it is forcing you to get good swimming posture. also,
always point your toes when kicking. Try to feel your legs
going down and the water pushing up against your toes.
Again, kick from your hips, not from your knees.

Hi Andres,

Thanks for the wonderful tips, I will keep them in mind.
Today while swimming I did realize that I am bending my legs
a bit while kicking. As you rightly pointed out, when I
tried to correct it, I had cramps, in my calves though. I
plan to spend more time using the kickboard.

One more small question. As per your suggestion my legs
do stay afloat and are not dragged downwards. However I
observed that my belly sinks in a bit when I am trying to
swim. Would it be because I am a bit overweight (about 6
- 8 kgs overweight). Also, after reading some books I
have started to practice swimming sideways instead of
lying flat on my torso. I think that did help me today,
but I am not sure if that's the right solution to the
sinking belly problem.

Thanks again,
- Ranjit

andres muro said:

Also, a kick board will help, as Martin suggests. When you
kick, hold the board from the round edge with the rest of
the board being under your arms. Your elbows should be
locked with your arms stretched.

Hello. Reading your description on how to use the kickboard
I have a question - I find that using the kickboard put a
lot of stress on my shoulders, especially the joints. It's
gone so bad that my shoulders are prone to injuries
especially if I do the freestyle right after I do the
kickboard. I also think part of my problem is that my
spine/back is very arched, it caves towards the front much
further than the average human being, which contributes to
the strees I put on my shoulders as I use the kickboard. Are
there other ways of holding the board that would put less
stress on the shoulders?

Try to do one thing at the time. Work on a drill to kick
straight, and do the drill regularly. Do a drill that you
breath to both sides. Do another where you rotate your
torso. Focus only on one part of the body, and try to make
sure that you are doing what you want to do.

Once in a while, try to combine two things and see how it
works out. Try to focus on form, ie, Do a drill trying to
keep perfect form for what you are doing. If you feel that
your form is getting sloppy, rest, and start again.

Once in a while swim w/o focusing on anything, simply swim
relaxed w/o thinking. After a while, check to see if any of
the drills are changing your overall form.

People have different approaches. I usually do ten lengths
of regular swimming where I focus only on my kick. Then I
may do 10 lengths focusing only on my reach. Then I may do
ten lengths focusing on both reach and kick. Then I may do
ten lengths focusing on my breathing, etc.

Andres

"Ranjit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<2khf7vF2ano8U1@uni-
berlin.de>...

Quoted message said:

"Ranjit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2k93egF191gbbU1@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I am an intermittent swimmer but now plan to swim on
regular basis. I mostly swim using the free style, but
have noticed that my stroke is pretty naive.

<snip>

OK ! I figured out that my technique needs a complete over-
haul. Following are the areas I need to work on
1. Swim in sideways rotation, instead flat on my torso.
2. Not bending legs while kicking.
3. Trying to breath from alternate sides when swimming
with essentially head down.

Now, when I try to implement all these at time, it really
screws up my rhythm. I was wondering if I should still
stick to getting everything right in the first place or it
would be better to get one thing straight at time. Any
suggestions?

As usual, TIA 🙂.

Ranjit

Ranjit:

Don't worry about your stomach sinking too much. If you are
arching your lower back, it may be lower than you legs. If
your legs stay afloat you are on the right track. Regarding
swimming sideways, you should be doing this. Imagine that an
axis goes through your head and torso. You should try to
rotate along this axis with each arm stroke.

Another thing to focus on is to keep your arm extended in
front of you as much as you can. Let it glide. Imagine that
you want to climb a boulder that is slightly far from your
reach. Hand should enter the water with your elbow slightly
bend. once it goes in, try to stretch it to reach that
boulder in front of you. You may need to push your shoulder
pass your ear to get more extension. As your arm goes into
the water you should also do your one kick, starting from
the hip, to help your arm glide and reach further. Once you
think that you reached the edge of the boulder try to feel
that you are pushing it down and under you, and you are
swimming over it.

Hope this helps,

Andres

"Ranjit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<2kc77hFkjqiU1@uni-
berlin.de>...

Quoted message said:

"andres muro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ranjit:

The legs have big muscles. They burn a lot of oxigen.
The arms have less muscle mass. However, in swimming,
the legs do little to propel you. The hands and arms do
most of the work, so you do not want to expend too much
energy in kicking. Kicking a lot is useful for sprints.
However for swimming distance, you should focus on
improving your form while kicking very little.

If your legs follow your body w/o sinking, you are in
good shape. If your legs sink, dragging you down and
getting you tired, kicking is not the solution. To lift
the legs, try pointing the toes back, not down. Also,
try to lift your butt by arching the lower back. With
pointed toes and an arched back, you legs should float.
Use them for balance, one kick per arm stroke. Do not
pedal. In other words, do not bend your knees when you
kick. focus on starting the kick from the hip.

Also, a kick board will help, as Martin suggests. When
you kick, hold the board from the round edge with the
rest of the board being under your arms. Your elbows
should be locked with your arms stretched. If you are
not used to kicking, you may get cramps in your
hamstrings. This is because the kickboard is forcing you
to arch your back, pulling on your hamstrings. While
this is a nasty feeling, it is forcing you to get good
swimming posture. also, always point your toes when
kicking. Try to feel your legs going down and the water
pushing up against your toes. Again, kick from your
hips, not from your knees.

Hi Andres,

Thanks for the wonderful tips, I will keep them in mind.
Today while swimming I did realize that I am bending my
legs a bit while kicking. As you rightly pointed out, when
I tried to correct it, I had cramps, in my calves though.
I plan to spend more time using the kickboard.

One more small question. As per your suggestion my legs do
stay afloat and are not dragged downwards. However I
observed that my belly sinks in a bit when I am trying to
swim. Would it be because I am a bit overweight (about 6 -
8 kgs overweight). Also, after reading some books I have
started to practice swimming sideways instead of lying
flat on my torso. I think that did help me today, but I am
not sure if that's the right solution to the sinking belly
problem.

Thanks again,
- Ranjit

"andres muro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try to do one thing at the time. Work on a drill to kick
straight, and do the drill regularly. Do a drill that you
breath to both sides. Do another where you rotate your
torso. Focus only on one part of the body, and try to make
sure that you are doing what you want to do.

Once in a while, try to combine two things and see how it
works out. Try to focus on form, ie, Do a drill trying to
keep perfect form for what you are doing. If you feel
that your form is getting sloppy, rest, and start again.

Once in a while swim w/o focusing on anything, simply swim
relaxed w/o thinking. After a while, check to see if any
of the drills are changing your overall form.

People have different approaches. I usually do ten lengths
of regular swimming where I focus only on my kick. Then I
may do 10 lengths focusing only on my reach. Then I may do
ten lengths focusing on both reach and kick. Then I may do
ten lengths focusing on my breathing, etc.

Andres

Hi Andres,

Thanks a ton for answering all my queries patiently. In fact
your suggestions helped a lot since I could successfully
implement them today. Trying to work on each area one at a
time doesn't upset my rhythm. Now I hope that it doesn't
take me too look b4 I start combining the drills (But I am
sure that it would, I have been swimming the wrong way for
15 years now 🙂 ).

Once again, I really appreciate everyone's help.

Cheers, Ranjit

"andres muro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ranjit:

Don't worry about your stomach sinking too much. If you
are arching your lower back, it may be lower than you
legs. If your legs stay afloat you are on the right track.
Regarding swimming sideways, you should be doing this.
Imagine that an axis goes through your head and torso. You
should try to rotate along this axis with each arm stroke.

Another thing to focus on is to keep your arm extended in
front of you as much as you can. Let it glide. Imagine
that you want to climb a boulder that is slightly far from
your reach. Hand should enter the water with your elbow
slightly bend. once it goes in, try to stretch it to reach
that boulder in front of you. You may need to push your
shoulder pass your ear to get more extension. As your arm
goes into the water you should also do your one kick,
starting from the hip, to help your arm glide and reach
further. Once you think that you reached the edge of the
boulder try to feel that you are pushing it down and under
you, and you are swimming over it.

Hope this helps,

Andres

Andres,

Thanks for patiently answering all my quries. I understand
that since i have been not following correct techniques for
a long time, it's going to take some time before i get into
proper rhythm. But I will surely try to follow all the tips
you mentioned.

Ranjit

Who are the TI people?

I might try forgoing the kickboard as my shoulders got
rather frozen after 2 short laps of board.

Richard Cant said:

There is a school of thought (including but not limited to
the TI people) that believes that use of a kickboard is a
bad idea as you kick in an unnatural position with the
head up and a highly arched back Also the kickboard
creates a lot of drag and loses you the opportunity to
practise your streamline whilst kicking. If fact I never
used a kickboard for this reason even before I started on
the TI thing.

The suggestion is that you should practise kicking on you
side with one arm extended in front and the other back by
your side. You head should look down most of the time,
except when you breath (which is achieved by rotating your
head to face the ceiling, assisted by rolling your body
somewhat)

The advantage of this is that you practice kicking in a
position much closer to swimming position.

Now I know that there are people on this newsgroup who
will disagree with this - but I thought you should hear a
range of opinions on the subject since the kickboard
enthusiasts have already had their say.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ada Ma said:

Who are the TI people?

Quite a list of people, some of whom are not really part of
the TI organization. Terry Laughlin, of course. Also Emmet
Hines, Bill Boomer, Shane Gould, and all the good coaches
listed at totalimmersion.netfind coach.htmlOpen ↗,
among others.

Their web site is: totalimmersion.nettotalimmersion.netOpen ↗

You could also include several folks in this newsgroup. I've
never been to one of their workshops, but I do use some of
their ideas, so I guess you could even include me.

You could even include Larry, since he has been to one of
their workshops. He often criticizes TI, but his latest post
about body rotation and core muscles could have come from
their literature.

Ross

Ross Bogue <[email hidden]> pondered, puzzeled, prognosticated
(perhaps even premeditated), and then, in a very wise voice, sed: :

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ada Ma

Quoted message said:

Who are the TI people?

Quite a list of people, some of whom are not really part of
the TI organization. Terry Laughlin, of course. Also Emmet
Hines, Bill Boomer,

i think Bill Boomer would be quite distressed to be
associated with TI.

--
chris

"Nothing is real."

"Ross Bogue" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quite a list of people, some of whom are not really part
of the TI organization. Terry Laughlin, of course. Also
Emmet Hines, Bill Boomer, Shane Gould, and all the good
coaches listed at totalimmersion.netfindOpen ↗
coach.html, among others.

quite interesting to read through that list of coaches.

i also found it incredibly amusing to read the following:

"So what do I take away from all of this? Primarily that
mindful drill practice is essential to anyone whose body
density puts them in the "sinker" camp. If ZipperSkate
reveals that simply lifting an arm from the water sends you
toward the bottom, you'll benefit far more from learning to
slice it back in the water ASAP, than by doing unfocused
training sets. The less time your arm is out of the water,
the more it contributes to displacing water and improving
your buoyancy. And the more of your head that you "hide"
below the surface, the more your head's volume does
likewise. So do your ZipperSkate and OverSwitch drills,
practice your "Ear Hops" in whole stroke, and thank
Archimedes for being the "first TI coach."

Rather stretching it a bit, i think.

Steve

In article <[email hidden]>,

chris said:

i think Bill Boomer would be quite distressed to be
associated with TI.

Are you sure? He may not be part of Terry's organization,
but Terry claims a connection.

"When I began teaching TI workshops in 1989, I had
recently become acquainted with an independent thinker
named Bill Boomer who urged coaches to at least pay some
attention to 'vessel-shaping.'"

"My mentor, Coach Bill Boomer, once said: 'Your hips are
the engine for swimming; your hands are just the
propellers.'"

- Terry Laughlin, Triathlon Swimming Made
Easy

That second quote sounds remarkably like what Larry was
saying in a recent post.

Ross