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shattered balls

Started by Geraint Jones · · Last activity · 11 posts · 715 views

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Original section
UK and Europe
Published
2 July 2004
Last activity
4 July 2004
Original author
Geraint Jones
Posts
11
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Public discussion
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  1. The lady with whom I now share a set of bicycle tools heard
    a loud crack from her bottom bracket - no, from her
    bicycle's bottom bracket yesterday morning on the way into
    work, and on finding the bb rather loose and clunky decided
    not to ride the bike much before we could have a good look
    at it. We stripped down the bb last night and found eleven
    bright shiny balls in reasonably clean grease on the
    accessible side.

    However in the fixed cup there were what seemed to be ten
    and two half balls in black gunge, with only the smaller
    half ball at all shiny. There were also many sharp fragments
    here and there in the grease, which puzzled me, because
    there didn't seem to be enough missing balls to go around.
    Fortunately the bearing surfaces seemed OK and we cleaned
    everything up and put two new sets of bright and shiny balls
    in with bright and shiny clean grease and all is fine.

    Later closer inspection revealed that most of the apparently
    whole balls in the ground-up bearing were distinctly
    conical, which accounts both for the blackness of the gunge
    and large number of fragments of ball. Since the only shiny
    surface remaining in that set was that of what (appealing to
    what I can remember of O-level geometry) I suppose you might
    call a spherical cap that had apparently come off one of the
    balls, I presume that that was the first failure and that
    everything else followed.

    I am inclined to suspect that this is "something that
    happened" as an essentially random failure of a single badly
    manufactured ball, however I wondered whether anyone had any
    supportable theories to the contrary. What can cause this
    sort of failure? Presumably if there was hard enough grit in
    there when it was last assembled (by an LBS... mutter) it
    wouldn't do it any good. Can you cause this sort of failure
    by having assembled the bearing too tightly? Is it caused by
    not wearing a helmet?

    I've never seen such badly damaged ball bearings before. The
    worst I'm used to is a bit of pitting in bearings that
    someone has run dry for a while. No names, no pack-drill.

    My O-level maths teacher would have a fit if he were still
    alive to catch me saying "smaller half".

  2. On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:08:27 +0000 (UTC),
    [email hidden] (Geraint

    Jones) said:

    in the fixed cup there were what seemed to be ten and two
    half balls in black gunge, with only the smaller half ball
    at all shiny.

    Yep, been there, done that. In my case it was the result of
    the ingress of a surprisingly small amount of water into
    what had, until then, been a carefully maintained bearing.

    I replaced the balls but they broke up agian, on closer
    inspection the races were damaged. So I went to a UN52,
    which fell apart almost immediately, and finally a UN72,
    which is OK so far.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
    posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    Washington University

  3. Geraint Jones said:

    The lady with whom I now share a set of bicycle tools

    [stull]

    What a perfectly /splendid/ expression!

    --

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

  4. Geraint Jones wrote: /snip

    Quoted message said:

    However in the fixed cup there were what seemed to be ten
    and two half balls in black gunge, with only the smaller
    half ball at all shiny. There were also many sharp
    fragments here and there in the grease, which puzzled me,
    because there didn't seem to be enough missing balls to go
    around. Fortunately the bearing surfaces seemed OK and we
    cleaned everything up and put two new sets of bright and
    shiny balls in with bright and shiny clean grease and all
    is fine.

    Later closer inspection revealed that most of the
    apparently whole balls in the ground-up bearing were
    distinctly conical, which accounts both for the blackness
    of the gunge and large number of fragments of ball. Since
    the only shiny surface remaining in that set was that of
    what (appealing to what I can remember of O-level
    geometry) I suppose you might call a spherical cap that
    had apparently come off one of the balls, I presume that
    that was the first failure and that everything else
    followed.............

    A lack of grease then water getting in can eventually result
    in mashed bearings. The ball retainers ("clips" or "cages"😉,
    if the BB uses them, can also disintegrate and cause further
    damage. Perhaps that's what the sharp fragments were.

    I don't know about conical balls, though.

    ~PB

  5. "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ( Alack of grease then water getting in can eventually
    result in mashed ) bearings. The ball retainers
    ("clips" or "cages"😉, if the BB uses them, ( can also
    disintegrate and cause further damage. Perhaps that's
    what the ) sharp fragments were.

    There was plenty of grease, and there was nothing
    "eventually" about the failure.

    This is a relatively new bike, and it did start out with
    caged balls as almost all new bikes (without sealed
    bearings) seem to. Mind you, those were in such a state
    (dry, pitted, ...) when the bike was new that they were
    replaced long before the cages could get caught up in
    anything and cause more damage than they were ever worth.
    Almost the first thing we did to the bike was to replace
    those with free range balls rotating in their own grease as
    the Good Lord intended.

    ( Bdon't know about conical balls, though.

    On a cloth untrue, with a twisted cue, and elliptical
    billiard balls.

  6. Geraint Jones said:

    There was plenty of grease, and there was nothing
    "eventually" about the failure.

    * Grease can become emusified with water, which can cause
    rapid damage.

    * Wrong or unevenly size balls? Poor grade or mixture
    of grades?

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too
    tightly). Cup & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-load
    to spread the load evenly over the balls. So much so that
    the spindle should actually feel rough when turned by
    hand. See draco.acs.uci.edu8f.8.html

    ~PB

  7. Sorry to be flippant, but is this a windup about an interesting relationship
    wit a lady?
    Regards,
    Geoff
    "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Geraint Jones said:

    There was plenty of grease, and there was nothing
    "eventually" about the failure.

    * Grease can become emusified with water, which can cause
    rapid damage.

    * Wrong or unevenly size balls? Poor grade or mixture of
    grades?

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too
    tightly). Cup & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-
    load to spread the load evenly over the balls. So much
    so that the spindle should actually feel rough when
    turned by hand. See
    draco.acs.uci.edu8f.8.html

    ~PB

  8. Pete Biggs said:

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as too
    tightly). Cup & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of pre-
    load to spread the load evenly over the balls. So much
    so that the spindle should actually feel rough when
    turned by hand. See
    draco.acs.uci.edu8f.8.html

    Careful. It shouldn't feel rough, and nowhere does that
    article say that it should. The increase in drag described
    should be smooth, and feels a little like the drag from a
    rubber seal - which is one reason it's difficult to adjust a
    bearing correctly with its seals in place. Adjusting a good
    quality bearing until it feels rough is a quick way to kill
    it. Roughness is a sign of contamination, damaged bearings,
    poor manufacture, or excess preload.

    James Thomson

  9. James Thomson said:
    Pete Biggs said:

    * Adjusting too lightly can cause problems (as well as
    too tightly). Cup & ball-type BBs need quite a bit of
    pre-load to spread the load evenly over the balls. So
    much so that the spindle should actually feel rough
    when turned by hand. See
    draco.acs.uci.edu8f.8.html

    Careful. It shouldn't feel rough, and nowhere does that
    article say that it should. The increase in drag described
    should be smooth, and feels a little like the drag from a
    rubber seal - which is one reason it's difficult to adjust
    a bearing correctly with its seals in place. Adjusting a
    good quality bearing until it feels rough is a quick way
    to kill it. Roughness is a sign of contamination, damaged
    bearings, poor manufacture, or excess preload.

    Even brand new best-grade bearing balls are not perfectly
    smooth and I was under the impression that bottom brackets
    should be adjusted with enough preload that this roughness
    can actually be felt when lightly turned with fingers.

    I seem to remember reading that on rec.bicycles.tech in
    reply to someone complaining about a BB not feeling
    perfectly smooth -- I thought written by Jobst Brandt but I
    can't find the message via Google Groups now. Perhaps I've
    got it all wrong. Fortunately, I use cartridge BB's nowdays.

    It lodged in the brain because I readjusted my own BB with
    a bit more preload after reading it. Don't know if it
    helped or hindered because I upgraded the BB shortly
    afterwards anyway.

    ~PB

  10. Pete Biggs said:

    Even brand new best-grade bearing balls are not
    perfectly smooth

    Of course not. Nothing is perfectly smooth.

    Quoted message said:

    and I was under the impression that bottom brackets should
    be adjusted with enough preload that this roughness can
    actually be felt when lightly turned with fingers.

    The problem with that prescription is that it suggests far
    higher preloads for better quality bearings, since very
    cheap bearings sometimes can't be adjusted for zero play
    without at least some perceptible roughness, while very well
    made ones will become stiffer and stiffer with increasing
    preload without becoming perceptibly rough.

    Quoted message said:

    I seem to remember reading that on rec.bicycles.tech in
    reply to someone complaining about a BB not feeling
    perfectly smooth -- I thought written by Jobst Brandt but
    I can't find the message via Google Groups now. Perhaps
    I've got it all wrong. Fortunately, I use cartridge BB's
    nowdays.

    Cartridge bottom brackets are usually assembled with a small
    amount of preload (they would quickly develop play if they
    weren't), but better ones don't feel rough.

    James Thomson

  11. In message <[email hidden]>

    James Thomson said:
    Pete Biggs said:

    Even brand new best-grade bearing balls are not
    perfectly smooth

    Of course not. Nothing is perfectly smooth.

    Except a cashmere codpiece!

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:



    Gwyn

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