Michael Moore

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
l+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

ince it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both
blue and red America, even at theaters close to military
bases. Last Saturday, Dale Earnhardt Jr. took his Nascar
crew to see it. The film's appeal to working-class
Americans, who are the true victims of George Bush's
policies, should give pause to its critics, especially the
nervous liberals rushing to disassociate themselves from
Michael Moore.

There has been much tut-tutting by pundits who complain that
the movie, though it has yet to be caught in any major
factual errors, uses association and innuendo to create
false impressions. Many of these same pundits consider it
bad form to make a big fuss about the Bush administration's
use of association and innuendo to link the Iraq war to
9/11. Why hold a self-proclaimed polemicist to a higher
standard than you hold the president of the United States?

And for all its flaws, "Fahrenheit 9/11" performs an
essential service. It would be a better movie if it didn't
promote a few unproven conspiracy theories, but those
theories aren't the reason why millions of people who aren't
die-hard Bush-haters are flocking to see it. These people
see the film to learn true stories they should have heard
elsewhere, but didn't. Mr. Moore may not be considered
respectable, but his film is a hit because the respectable
media haven't been doing their job.

For example, audiences are shocked by the now-famous seven
minutes, when George Bush knew the nation was under attack
but continued reading "My Pet Goat" with a group of
children. Nobody had told them that the tales of Mr. Bush's
decisiveness and bravery on that day were pure fiction.

Or consider the Bush family's ties to the Saudis. The film
suggests that Mr. Bush and his good friend Prince Bandar bin
Sultan, the ambassador known to the family as Bandar Bush,
have tried to cover up the extent of Saudi involvement in
terrorism. This may or may not be true. But what shocks
people, I think, is the fact that nobody told them about
this side of Mr. Bush's life.

Mr. Bush's carefully constructed persona is that of an all-
American regular guy - not like his suspiciously
cosmopolitan opponent, with his patrician air. The news
media have cheerfully gone along with the pretense. How
many stories have you seen contrasting John Kerry's upper-
crusty vacation on Nantucket with Mr. Bush's down-home
time at the ranch?

But the reality, revealed by Mr. Moore, is that Mr. Bush has
always lived in a bubble of privilege. And his family, far
from consisting of regular folks with deep roots in the
heartland, is deeply enmeshed, financially and personally,
with foreign elites - with the Saudis in particular.

Ms. Moore's greatest strength is a real empathy with working-
class Americans that most journalists lack. Having
stripped away Mr. Bush's common-man mask, he uses his
film to make the case, in a way statistics never could,
that Mr. Bush's policies favor a narrow elite at the
expense of less fortunate Americans - sometimes, indeed,
at the cost of their lives.

In a nation where the affluent rarely serve in the military,
Mr. Moore follows Marine recruiters as they trawl the malls
of depressed communities, where enlistment is the only way
for young men and women to escape poverty. He shows
corporate executives at a lavish conference on Iraq,
nibbling on canapés and exulting over the profit
opportunities, then shows the terrible price paid by the
soldiers creating those opportunities.

The movie's moral core is a harrowing portrait of a grieving
mother who encouraged her children to join the military
because it was the only way they could pay for their
education, and who lost her son in a war whose justification
she no longer understands.

Viewers may come away from Mr. Moore's movie believing some
things that probably aren't true. For example, the film
talks a lot about Unocal's plans for a pipeline across
Afghanistan, which I doubt had much impact on the course of
the Afghan war. Someday, when the crisis of American
democracy is over, I'll probably find myself berating Mr.
Moore, who supported Ralph Nader in 2000, for his simplistic
antiglobalization views.

But not now. "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a tendentious, flawed
movie, but it tells essential truths about leaders who
exploited a national tragedy for political gain, and the
ordinary Americans who paid the price.

If it wasn't for the investigative reports of David Sween,
who has been one step ahead of the effort to frame an
innocent man, Scott Peterson would have been dead and buried
by now, just like Richard Albert Ricci was.

The fact that David Sween is responsible for saving Scott
Peterson became graphically plain recently, when the
disgraced prosecution tried to save the reputation of the
incompetent, Detective Allen Brocchini.

The detective had gotten a call about how Scott dumped Laci
in the ocean on April 19, 2003, a day after Scott Peterson
was arrested, but Detective Allen Brocchini did not follow
up because, in his words,

"I just couldn't corroborate it, and I just didn't put a lot
of stock in it."

In retrospect, such a call is consistent with the persistent
effort to frame Scott Peterson, and investigator, David
Sween, had virually made that crystal clear when he wrote
the following report:

geocities.comscott.htmOpen ↗

So you see, if David Sween did not methodically and
systematically expose every absurd plot to frame Scott
Peterson, the prosecution might have fraudulently "cemented"
the case against Scott early on, and he may have died in
prison, just like Richard Albert Ricci did.

The April 19 telephone call tip that Brochini dismissed is
the very same one that the prosecution has currently
embraced, and that is a clear indication of the fact that
earlier efforts to frame Scott Peterson were discarded
because David Sween exposed every fraudulent effort to
"cement" the case against Scott Peterson.

If Scott has a guardian angel looking over his shoulder,
his name is David Sween, and I seriously believe that in
the absence of his brilliant reporting, Scott Peterson
would be dead.
_____________________________
this was posted on the nsnews message board and it is worth
repeating here !

geocities.comscott.htmOpen ↗

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
ael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

ince it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both
blue and red America, even at theaters close to military
bases. Last Saturday, Dale Earnhardt Jr. took his Nascar
crew to see it. The film's appeal to working-class
Americans, who are the true victims of George Bush's
policies, should give pause to its critics, especially the
nervous liberals rushing to disassociate themselves from
Michael Moore.

<rest of review snipped>

Dumbass -

I'd say that Mr. Krugman is pretty much spot on with what he
said, both in its praise and criticism.

He left out a little more though. Moore's movie, IMO, is a
seminal event in film history. Someone has finally come out
with a cinematic counterpoint to reality TV, with a very
significant difference: the characters in reality TV are
real, but the situations they are filmed in are contrived
while in "Fahrenheit 9/11", the people are real, and the
film's subject is the most horrifyingly dramatic event
anyone can ever experience (war).

With regards to Mr. Chung's query from a few days ago: ya, I
finally saw it. And you?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
ael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

<snip inane drivel>

I see your conspiracy theories are not limited to Lance
only... Consider this an offering of help and not a flame.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think
you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

-Mark Twain

-p

Off topic! Take it outside please. Gosh, the Tour begins
tomorrow and THIS is all you care about?????

Madelin McKinnon said:

If it wasn't for the investigative reports of David Sween,
who has been one step ahead of the effort to frame an
innocent man, Scott Peterson would have been dead and
buried by now, just like Richard Albert Ricci was.

The fact that David Sween is responsible for saving Scott
Peterson became graphically plain recently, when the
disgraced prosecution tried to save the reputation of the
incompetent, Detective Allen Brocchini.

The detective had gotten a call about how Scott dumped
Laci in the ocean on April 19, 2003, a day after Scott
Peterson was arrested, but Detective Allen Brocchini did
not follow up because, in his words,

"I just couldn't corroborate it, and I just didn't put a
lot of stock in it."

In retrospect, such a call is consistent with the
persistent effort to frame Scott Peterson, and
investigator, David Sween, had virually made that crystal
clear when he wrote the following report:

geocities.comscott.htmOpen ↗

So you see, if David Sween did not methodically and
systematically expose every absurd plot to frame Scott
Peterson, the prosecution might have fraudulently
"cemented" the case against Scott early on, and he may
have died in prison, just like Richard Albert Ricci did.

The April 19 telephone call tip that Brochini dismissed is
the very same one that the prosecution has currently
embraced, and that is a clear indication of the fact that
earlier efforts to frame Scott Peterson were discarded
because David Sween exposed every fraudulent effort to
"cement" the case against Scott Peterson.

If Scott has a guardian angel looking over his shoulder,
his name is David Sween, and I seriously believe that in
the absence of his brilliant reporting, Scott Peterson
would be dead.
_____________________________
this was posted on the nsnews message board and it is
worth repeating here !

geocities.comscott.htmOpen ↗

"Pippen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:hWeFc.14005$Oq2.3897@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vD-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
chael+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

<snip inane drivel>

I see your conspiracy theories are not limited to Lance
only... Consider this an offering of help and not a flame.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people
think you are a

fool

Quoted message said:

than to open it and remove all doubt."

-Mark Twain

-p

What theories are those as to Armstrong and Moore?

On 7/2/04 3:18 AM, in article
[email hidden], "B. Lafferty"

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
el+Moore&r=f

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

This contains the key word: "OP-ED COLUMNIST"

On 07/01/2004 11:24 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Steve"

Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
Moore&r=f

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
lly
urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks
at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas
servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee
sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for
word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-
ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

urbandictionary.comdefine.phpOpen ↗
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July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

ince it opened, "Fahrenheit 9/11" has been a hit in both
blue and red America, even at theaters close to military
bases. Last Saturday, Dale Earnhardt Jr. took his Nascar
crew to see it. The film's appeal to working-class
Americans, who are the true victims of George Bush's

policies,

Quoted message said:

should give pause to its critics, especially the nervous
liberals rushing

to

Quoted message said:

disassociate themselves from Michael Moore.

There has been much tut-tutting by pundits who complain
that the movie, though it has yet to be caught in any
major factual errors, uses

association

Quoted message said:

and innuendo to create false impressions.

I consider it bad form to create films that are propaganda
styled as documentary. MM has created a new niche in films
with these "Propa-mentary" films.

Many of these same pundits

Quoted message said:

consider it bad form to make a big fuss about the Bush
administration's

use

Quoted message said:

of association and innuendo to link the Iraq war to 9/11.
Why hold a self-proclaimed polemicist to a higher standard
than you hold the

president

Quoted message said:

of the United States?

And for all its flaws, "Fahrenheit 9/11" performs an
essential service. It would be a better movie if it didn't
promote a few unproven conspiracy theories, but those
theories aren't the reason why millions of people who
aren't die-hard Bush-haters are flocking to see it. These
people see the film to learn true stories they should have
heard elsewhere, but didn't.

Mr.

Which true stories?

Quoted message said:

Moore may not be considered respectable, but his film is
a hit because the respectable media haven't been doing
their job.

That is debatable.

Quoted message said:

For example, audiences are shocked by the now-famous seven
minutes, when George Bush knew the nation was under attack
but continued reading "My Pet Goat" with a group of
children. Nobody had told them that the tales of Mr.
Bush's decisiveness and bravery on that day were pure
fiction.

Wow. Show me any human that knew how to react in less than 7
minutes. That attack was unprecedented in world history.
Terrorists attacking massive numbers of innocent civilians
using the mass transit system as a weapon of mass
destruction (ok, the mass destruciton was more about having
a direct hit in a target rich environment). It was shocking
for so many reasons, not the least of which it was largest
scale attack ever on civilians during peace time

Quoted message said:

Or consider the Bush family's ties to the Saudis. The film
suggests that

Ms.

Quoted message said:

Bush and his good friend Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the
ambassador known to the family as Bandar Bush, have tried
to cover up the extent of Saudi involvement in terrorism.
This may or may not be true. But what shocks people, I
think, is the fact that nobody told them about this side
of Mr. Bush's life.

Nobody knew that the Bush family was in the oil business
for decades?

Quoted message said:

Mr. Bush's carefully constructed persona is that of an all-
American

regular

Quoted message said:

guy - not like his suspiciously cosmopolitan opponent,
with his patrician air. The news media have cheerfully
gone along with the pretense. How many stories have you
seen contrasting John Kerry's upper-crusty vacation on
Nantucket with Mr. Bush's down-home time at the ranch?

Why would anyone care?

Quoted message said:

But the reality, revealed by Mr. Moore, is that Mr. Bush
has always lived

in

Quoted message said:

a bubble of privilege. And his family, far from consisting
of regular

folks

Quoted message said:

with deep roots in the heartland, is deeply enmeshed,
financially and personally, with foreign elites - with the
Saudis in particular.

OK, maybe people in general did not think through the other
memebers of that group but it has been known for decades
where the Bush's made their fortunes (long before any
national elections were won by them).

Quoted message said:

Mr. Moore's greatest strength is a real empathy with working-
class

Americans

Quoted message said:

that most journalists lack.

That may be true, but Michael Moore lives a life of luxury
that is not in line with his image. Does that mean the next
film producer\director to fill his shoes should point the
camera at Moore himself? No, it just does not matter.
Michael Moore has long been known as a radical liberal that
has no interest in seeing managemant and union members
getting along. He wants "the worker" to win the war not
realizing that would kill the golden goose. That does not
mean there are not plenty of abuses by management even
today, but Moore acts like he is living during the dawn of
the industrial revolution rather than a full century later.

Quoted message said:

Having stripped away Mr. Bush's common-man mask, he uses
his film to make the case, in a way statistics never could,

Indeed.

Quoted message said:

that Mr. Bush's policies favor a narrow elite at the
expense of less fortunate Americans - sometimes, indeed, at
the cost of their lives.

That is arguable and is ALWAYS claimed to be the position of
the Republicans. Where is the story then?

Quoted message said:

In a nation where the affluent rarely serve in the
military,

In an all volunteer military, why is that a surprise? OK,
that was a real problem during the Vietnam war era but why
is that a surprise or a problem now? Besides, in a
capitolist meritocracy with upward mobility available to
most people, there are supposed to be benefits of wealth.
Why else would anyone even work if there were not?

Quoted message said:

Mr. Moore follows Marine recruiters as they trawl the malls
of depressed

communities,

Quoted message said:

where enlistment is the only way for young men and women
to escape

poverty.

Hmm. I do have a problem with the recruting tactics used by
the military but it is not as if these people are targeted
to remain poor. It is also true that Remmy (separate but
equal) stood for far too long. While not all individuals
that were harmed have now obtained remedies, the legal frame
work exists to do so. The trend towards treating all humans
as equally worthy of respect and opportunity is well
established. It is not clear at all what else could be done
and maybe the only thing remaining to be done is to continue
to prosecute and adjuicate cases where people continue to be
victimized. Having said all that, what else could or should
the government do to make life better for poor people
(regardless of the reasons of that poverty)? Do you concede
that (able minded) individuals have some accountability to
break out of poverty?

The real problems that I see in the US are the "hidden"
groups that do not have public sympathy. People that suffer
from acute and chronic pain first have to prove that they
will not become criminals *before* getting the best medical
solution. Where is Michael Moore when dozens of people kill
themselves each day from the depression of unrelieved pain
while pharmacies are well stocked with medicines that would
offer that relief? Many of these people are not even aware
of just how much can be done with modern pain meds and
protocols. No, most people that know about these highly
effective meds simply think of them as a bad idea because
they are abused by people that should not have them in their
posession. If MM is such a simpathetic person, why is he
always harping the radical political agenda? Is his sympathy
really for those people or is it for an ideal he sold
himself on so long ago before he sold out? How many of these
films whose main purpose is alleged to help the working man
are used only to make MM yet another member of the public he
hates so much (rich people)? Some film makers use profits to
help the people they are claiming to serve. How much of MM's
profits have gone to any charity?

Quoted message said:

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on
Iraq, nibbling on canapés and exulting over the profit
opportunities,

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to
replace capitolism? I was just wondering...No more French
food? No more profits? Central planning? How bad precisely
is this whole problem with capitolism anyway? Why do true
Americans allow it to continue (whatever is alleged to be
wrong with either profits or French food?

Quoted message said:

then shows the terrible price paid by the soldiers creating
those opportunities.

The objective of the military is to create business
opportunities?

Quoted message said:

The movie's moral core is a harrowing portrait of a
grieving mother who encouraged her children to join the
military because it was the only way they could pay for
their education, and who lost her son in a war whose
justification she no longer understands.

Again, it is true that the recruiters not focus enough on
the risk these people take when they sign. Still, it is not
really a secret that soldiers die some times. If the US is
so profit oriented and careless about human life, why does
the budget allow the cost of the guided munitions to be so
high? Would it be a lot cheaper to just drop some big ass
bombs when we need to kill and not waste those billions on
guidance systems? Another problem is those damn expensive
planes that are so far superior that they rarely ever get
shot down any more. Is it really worth all those billions
spent to save just a few more lives? The pilots are by far
the best trained to why is so much spent on making the US
Air Force the ruler of the skies? The US could save billions
and the only cost would be a few more lives lost by people
that already agreed to risk them for their country for pay.
For some reason, this does not sound like the same military
that MM is talking about.

Quoted message said:

Viewers may come away from Mr. Moore's movie believing
some things that probably aren't true.

Probably? Is there any chance that won't happen?

For example, the film talks a lot about Unocal's plans

Quoted message said:

for a pipeline across Afghanistan, which I doubt had much
impact on the course of the Afghan war. Someday, when the
crisis of American democracy

is

Quoted message said:

over, I'll probably find myself berating Mr. Moore, who
supported Ralph Nader in 2000, for his simplistic
antiglobalization views.

Deep down you know that MM is wrong but you think he is
harmless or serving a role to punish those that do not serve
your particular wishes.

Quoted message said:

But not now. "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a tendentious, flawed
movie, but it

tells

Quoted message said:

essential truths

How can a film tell essential truth by using deception? Are
you sure it is "essential truth" you are after?

about leaders who exploited a national tragedy for

Quoted message said:

political gain, and the ordinary Americans who paid
the price.

Attacking Iraq was politically expedient? I think it was a
huge political risk. Bush may have known even then that it
may cost him his second term that every POTUSA wants.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference on
Iraq, nibbling on canapés and exulting over the profit
opportunities,

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to
replace capitolism?

<snip>

Dumbass -

No-bid contracts are not capitalism. Capitalism is
characterized by free-markets and competition. Corruption is
defined by cronyism.

Capitalism works because competition breeds efficiency.
Cronyism and corruption are the antithesis of that and a
cancer on any society. Some cultures end up being completely
overwhelmed by it (Argentina and Mexico are a good
examples).

As an aside - see the movie - then criticize. There are few
things more half-assed than a movie critic who hasn't
actually seen the movie.

K. Gringioni believer in capitalism

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 7/2/04 3:18 AM, in article

Quoted message said:

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

This contains the key word: "OP-ED COLUMNIST"

Goddamm, you're stupid as ever.

Every single movie review which has ever been written is
someone's opinion.

BTW, "OP-ED COLUMNIST" is actually two words.

No need to thank me. I am a Good Samaritan, here to help
those in need. You're welcome and have a nice day.

Now let's relate this back to bike racing, shall we?

"K. Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 7/2/04 3:18 AM, in article

Quoted message said:

July 2, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST Moore's Public Service By
PAUL KRUGMAN

This contains the key word: "OP-ED COLUMNIST"

Goddamm, you're stupid as ever.

Every single movie review which has ever been written is
someone's opinion.

BTW, "OP-ED COLUMNIST" is actually two words.

No need to thank me. I am a Good Samaritan, here to help
those in need. You're welcome and have a nice day.

Bio form the NY Times:

Paul Krugman joined The New York Times in 1999 as a
columnist on the Op-Ed Page and continues as professor of
Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University.

Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974
and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. He has taught at Yale,
MIT and Stanford. At MIT he became the Ford
International Professor of Economics.

Ms. Krugman is the author or editor of 20 books and more
than 200 papers in professional journals and edited
volumes. His professional reputation rests largely on
work in international trade and finance; he is one of
the founders of the "new trade theory," a major
rethinking of the theory of international trade. In
recognition of that work, in 1991 the American Economic
Association awarded him its John Bates Clark medal, a
prize given every two years to "that economist under
forty who is adjudged to have made a significant
contribution to economic knowledge." Mr. Krugman's
current academic research is focused on economic and
currency crises.

At the same time, Mr. Krugman has written extensively for a
broader public audience. Some of his recent articles on
economic issues, originally published in Foreign Affairs,
Harvard Business Review, Scientific American and other
journals, are reprinted in Pop Internationalism and The
Accidental Theorist.

"keydates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now let's relate this back to bike racing, shall we?

He missed out on a Tour start. Wonder if he'll change teams
for next year? CSC? Riis?

Peter

"K. Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He shows corporate executives at a lavish conference
on Iraq, nibbling

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

canapés and exulting over the profit opportunities,

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea to
replace

capitolism?

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Dumbass -

No-bid contracts are not capitalism. Capitalism is
characterized by free-markets and competition. Corruption
is defined by cronyism.

Capitalism works because competition breeds efficiency.
Cronyism and corruption are the antithesis of that and a
cancer on any society. Some cultures end up being
completely overwhelmed by it (Argentina and Mexico are a
good examples).

So MM proved all that, or is that something you decided
before the film? I assume the latter since I have heard
similar comments from you

Quoted message said:

As an aside - see the movie - then criticize. There are
few things more half-assed than a movie critic who hasn't
actually seen the movie.

I can think of several things, like reactionary liberals
for one...

There is not much point since I was not critisizing the
movie directly. As entertainment, it is probably pretty good
stuff. I have seen clips and they are amuzing and
manipulative. I was critical of MM and his body of work up
to this point and the article by Lafferty that implied the
film had educational value. MM's story-telling is well
established. It is based on manipulating emotions with out
of context half-truths. I suppose if I really cared a lot
about debunking this particular film, I would go see it but
I don't want to waste my time on any more of his BS.

Quoted message said:

K. Gringioni believer in capitalism

Thanks for proving it really is "Kurgan" and not a fake of
the fake Italian or whatever your 'nym is supposed to imply.

K. Gringioni said:

With regards to Mr. Chung's query from a few days ago: ya,
I finally saw it. And you?

I anxiously await its release here in the land of freedom
and equality.

Robert Chung said:

K. Gringioni said:

With regards to Mr. Chung's query from a few days ago:
ya, I finally saw it. And you?

I anxiously await its release here in the land of freedom
and equality.

France?

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea
to replace

capitolism?

Quoted message said:

I was just wondering...No more French food? No more
profits? Central planning? How bad precisely is this whole
problem with capitolism anyway? Why do true Americans
allow it to continue (whatever is alleged to be

wrong

Quoted message said:

with either profits or French food?

l

Capital: 2a. Wealth in the form of money or property, used
or accumulated in a business by a person, partnership, or
corporation. b. Material wealth used or available for use in
the production of more wealth.

Capitol: 2. The building in Washington, D.C., where the
Congress of the United States meets....

Capitalism: An economic system in which the means of
production and distribution are privately or corporately
owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation
and reinvestment...

Capitolism: A system of building large edifices with [censored]-
shaped domes....

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is just what I mean. What is MM's (or your) idea
to replace

capitolism?

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Dumbass -

No-bid contracts are not capitalism. Capitalism is
characterized by free-markets and competition.
Corruption is defined by cronyism.

Capitalism works because competition breeds efficiency.
Cronyism and corruption are the antithesis of that and a
cancer on any society. Some cultures end up being
completely overwhelmed by it (Argentina and Mexico are a
good examples).

So MM proved all that, or is that something you decided
before the film? I assume the latter since I have heard
similar comments from you

Dumbass -

The film wasn't about capitalism vs. cronyism.

Duh.

And yes, I think the Bush Admin. is very much about
cronyism, years before seeing the film. How can one
objectively not come to that conclusion?

It is possible. By being a blind ideologue ie. the ideologue
who follows, but at the cost of abandoning the true ideals,
in this case, true fiscal conservatism.

K. Gringioni believer in free markets