age for child trailers

GS said:

As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my
daughter in a child trailer. How young can children be to
safely ride in a trailer?

joggingstroller.comcharOpen ↗
iotacc.htm

Chariot Baby Supporter The fleece Baby Supporter
helps children between from about 3-4 months to
about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
comfortably. The head support is removable, for when
your child is old enough for a helmet (usually
around 1 year old). Works with 5-point harnesses.
Compatible with all Chariot products except the
SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is
for using your Chariot for walking or jogging.)

That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I certainly
don't know how it relates to "safely" riding.

I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being
available for children under about one year of age for
similar reasons.

--kyler

Kyler Laird said:

GS said:

As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my
daughter in a child trailer. How young can children be to
safely ride in a trailer?

joggingstroller.comchariotaOpen ↗
cc.htm

Chariot Baby Supporter The fleece Baby Supporter
helps children between from about 3-4 months to
about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
comfortably. The head support is removable, for when
your child is old enough for a helmet (usually
around 1 year old). Works with 5-point harnesses.
Compatible with all Chariot products except the
SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is
for using your Chariot for walking or jogging.)

That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I
certainly don't know how it relates to "safely" riding.

Nor do I.

Quoted message said:

I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being
available for children under about one year of age for
similar reasons.

... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one
year old has ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in a
bike trailer! If it's out there, I certainly haven't seen
it. And if it's happened, it's certainly very, very rare.
But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.

It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push
that trialer as fast as they can run, and it remains "safe."
But if a bicycle is towing it, it will be "dangerous."

Regarding the original question: towing an infant in a bike
trailer needn't be any more dangerous than transporting the
kid in a car. It depends on the riding environment.
Obviously, high-speed twisty descents, gnarly off-road
trails, etc. would be bad. Quiet neighborhood streets or
rides in the park can be fine.

Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb on
the inside of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going fast
enough. So don't do that.

My daughter (now grown) was going for short bike rides at
about 4 months, IIRC, in a sort of sling-backpack. I'm very
stable on a bike, and had no trouble at all. Obviously, her
head was well-supported, just as it would be if we were
carrying her while walking. Eventually she moved into a kid
seat on the bike, then onto a tandem with a kid-back setup.

(Of course, this was all before bicycling became officially
"Dangerous!!!"😉

All in all, I'd say if the kid is well strapped in and
well supported (especially her head and neck), and if
you're appropriately careful, you can start in just a
couple months. But keep in mind, your daughter isn't going
to get much out of the experience until she can sit up and
look around!

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

GS said:

As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my
daughter in a child trailer. How young can children be to
safely ride in a trailer?

DS was in the trailer when he could easily hold up his
head. I don't remember anymore what age that was. Somewhere
under 6 months?

Scott

Frank Krygowski said:

Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb
on the inside of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going
fast enough. So don't do that.

The wife did this with both kids in the trailer (they
were age 4 and 1.5, I think, or 3 and 0.5) The son, who
is younger, slept through the whole thing. The daughter
was a little freaked. Both were strapped in, and just
ended up hanging upside down. The burley did a 180 -- I
think the possibility for injury would be greater for a
90-degree flip.

They were going downhill, and made a turn but one wheel of
the burley caught a curb. Didn't do *that* again 🙂

Scott

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I recall seeing something about helmets not
being available for children under about one year of age
for similar reasons.

... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one
year old has ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in
a bike trailer! If it's out there, I certainly haven't
seen it. And if it's happened, it's certainly very, very
rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.

Probably because people carrying kids under 1 year old in a
trailer are also very, very rare.

Quoted message said:

It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push
that trialer as fast as they can run, and it remains
"safe." But if a bicycle is towing it, it will be
"dangerous."

That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to 8
mph, and can stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a bike,
you could easily double that speed, and triple it on not
much of a hill.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I recall seeing something about helmets not being
available for children under about one year of age for
similar reasons.

... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one
year old has ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in
a bike trailer! If it's out there, I certainly haven't
seen it. And if it's happened, it's certainly very, very
rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.

Probably because people carrying kids under 1 year old in
a trailer are also very, very rare.

Of course, that's part of it. Trailers themselves are not
common. But what evidence is there of _any_ kids getting
seriously hurt while riding on parents' bikes?

Somehow, the Safety Industry (or its subsidiary,
Handwringers Incorporated) seems to think it knows so much
more than any given parent about what is safe and what is
dangerous.

They seem to envision a parent negligently tossing a child
onto a rear rack, held down by a loose bungie cord. In my
experience, parents are quite cautious with kids on their
bikes, more so than with kids in their cars.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push
that trialer as fast as they can run, and it remains
"safe." But if a bicycle is towing it, it will be
"dangerous."

That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6 to
8 mph, and can stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On a
bike, you could easily double that speed, and triple it on
not much of a hill.

... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

FWIW, if a parent thinks 6 to 8 mph is all that's safe, they
can ride their bike at 6 to 8 mph. There is nothing specific
about being moved by a bike that makes a trailer dangerous.

But in my limited experience (and the considerably greater
experience of some of my friends) trailers are very stable
indeed, no matter what the speed.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot
com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu]

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently)
push that trialer as fast as they can run, and it
remains "safe." But if a bicycle is towing it, it will
be "dangerous."

That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6
to 8 mph, and can stop a LOT quicker than a bike can. On
a bike, you could easily double that speed, and triple
it on not much of a hill.

... and 24 mph is usually fatal???

Hardly. It's simply that a higher-speed tip-over or crash is
likely to cause more injury than a lower-speed one, and
pulling it on a bike is like to be faster than walking or
running. That's all I'm saying. It wouldn't surprise me a
bit if the tip-over rate when being pushed by a person is
actually higher than when being pulled by a bike, but the
injuries sustained in the bike tip-over are likely to be
worse due to the higher speeds.

Quoted message said:

You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

Frank Krygowski <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Kyler Laird said:

GS said:

As a new father I'm excited to start biking with my
daughter in a child trailer. How young can children be
to safely ride in a trailer?

joggingstroller.comchariotaOpen ↗
cc.htm

Chariot Baby Supporter The fleece Baby Supporter
helps children between from about 3-4 months to
about 18 months of age sit upright and nap
comfortably. The head support is removable, for when
your child is old enough for a helmet (usually
around 1 year old). Works with 5-point harnesses.
Compatible with all Chariot products except the
SideCarrier. (Note that cycling is not recommended
for children under 1 year of age; this accessory is
for using your Chariot for walking or jogging.)

That's a manufacturer's recommendation/CYA move. I
certainly don't know how it relates to "safely" riding.

Nor do I.

Quoted message said:

I think I recall seeing something about helmets not
being available for children under about one year of age
for similar reasons.

... yet try to find ANY evidence that a kid less than one
year old has ever been seriously hurt on a bicycle, or in
a bike trailer! If it's out there, I certainly haven't
seen it. And if it's happened, it's certainly very, very
rare. But that won't stop the handwringers' warnings.

It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently) push
that trialer as fast as they can run, and it remains
"safe." But if a bicycle is towing it, it will be
"dangerous."

Regarding the original question: towing an infant in a
bike trailer needn't be any more dangerous than
transporting the kid in a car. It depends on the riding
environment. Obviously, high-speed twisty descents, gnarly
off-road trails, etc. would be bad. Quiet neighborhood
streets or rides in the park can be fine.

Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb
on the inside of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going
fast enough. So don't do that.

My daughter (now grown) was going for short bike rides at
about 4 months, IIRC, in a sort of sling-backpack. I'm
very stable on a bike, and had no trouble at all.
Obviously, her head was well-supported, just as it would
be if we were carrying her while walking. Eventually she
moved into a kid seat on the bike, then onto a tandem with
a kid-back setup.

(Of course, this was all before bicycling became
officially "Dangerous!!!"😉

All in all, I'd say if the kid is well strapped in and
well supported (especially her head and neck), and if
you're appropriately careful, you can start in just a
couple months. But keep in mind, your daughter isn't going
to get much out of the experience until she can sit up and
look around!

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.
Strapping it into a car is as dangerouse as it gets.

Frank Krygowski said:

Trailers can tip, but it's not easy to do. Hitting a curb
on the inside of a sharp turn can do it, if you're going
fast enough. So don't do that.

I tipped my Trek trailer with my 3-year-old daughter in it.
I was turning at maybe 10 mph and she happened to lean away
from the turn at the same time.

RFM

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

Quoted message said:

It's interesting to me that a jogger can (apparently)
push that trialer as fast as they can run, and it remains
"safe." But if a bicycle is towing it, it will be
"dangerous."

Quoted message said:

That jogger is almost certainly not going over about 6
to 8 mph,

Well...*almost*... lairds.orglairds.orgOpen ↗
img_2090.jpg/image_viewer

--kyler

(R.White) said:

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.

Once again, at least one manufacturer (Trek/Chariot)
specifically recommends against this.

--kyler

"Fritz M" wrote: (clip) she happened to lean away from the
turn at the same time. ^^^^^^^^^^^ That's the kind of
accident that can be predicted in hindsight :-) Little kids
have no choice or control over the conditions their parents
put them in, so we owe them every possible precaution.

Not doubting your description of the cause, but I'm
curious how you were able to tell the child leaned and
caused the accident.

I trust there were no injuries, or if there were, I hope
there was nothing serious.

And, the next question is: how are you going to deal with
this risk in the future?

Kyler Laird said:

(R.White) said:

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.

Once again, at least one manufacturer (Trek/Chariot)
specifically recommends against this.

Is any reason given?

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

David Kerber said:

Quoted message said:

You seem to be MUCH more afraid of bicycling than I am.

You don't know me very well, do you????

Probably no better than you know me! ;-)

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Once again, at least one manufacturer (Trek/Chariot)
specifically recommends against this.

Quoted message said:

Is any reason given?

The required gravitational force between the trailer's seat
and the child's ass is disrupted if anything separates them.

trekbikes.com04 trailerOpen ↗
jogger_om_en.pdf

Never place a car seat in the child carrier. Never
place a pad or a mattress under the child. The child
must sit directly in the child carrier seat.

--kyler

Kyler Laird said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Quoted message said:

>Also an infant car seat can be strapped into a trailer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Once again, at least one manufacturer (Trek/Chariot)
specifically recommends against this.

Quoted message said:

Is any reason given?

The required gravitational force between the trailer's
seat and the child's ass is disrupted if anything
separates them.

trekbikes.com04 trailerOpen ↗
jogger_om_en.pdf

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a product manual with a
higher ratio of safety warnings to usage instruction.

If motor vehicle manuals were done that way, there'd be at
least one warning saying "Don't allow your passengers to
ride on the roof."

Fear of lawyers produces some weird literature, doesn't it?

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

If motor vehicle manuals were done that way, there'd be at
least one warning saying "Don't allow your passengers to
ride on the roof."

I'm sure it's in there somewhere. Mine tells me not to open
the doors or attempt tpo get out of the vehicle while the
it's in motion. You really think I needed to be told that?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

The required gravitational force between the trailer's seat
and the child's ass is disrupted if anything separates them.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does NASA know about this? I believe this could
be an important breakthrough in the launching of satellites,
and possibly even the development of perpetual motion. <BG

Leo Lichtman said:

Not doubting your description of the cause, but I'm
curious how you were able to tell the child leaned and
caused the accident.

To be honest, it was the only thing I could think of. There
were no bumps and I was moving pretty slowly. I asked my
daughter if she was leaning into the side of the trailer,
but that's a leading question so I don't really know if her
answer was factual or not.

When my son was learning to ride on a trail-a-bike and,
later, a tandem with me, I would lean into the turn and he
would fight me all the way through it by leaning the
opposite way. He did it because he felt like he was falling
over. That goes away with practice, but I'm wondering if
something similar might happen in the trailer.

Quoted message said:

I trust there were no injuries, or if there were, I hope
there was nothing serious.

The only injury was to her pride, which for a three-year-old
can be substantial.

She loves to ride her (training-wheel equipped[1]) bike now
and knows to lean into turns.

RFM
--
[1] Yeah, I know about training wheels. She doesn't have the
coordination to ride without, and she refuses to ride her tricycle
because she wants to be on a bike like her older brother.