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intersting testimony

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Mountain Bikes
Published
26 June 2004
Last activity
27 June 2004
Original author
J G
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19
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  1. Had the displeasure of a court case Thursday...... Motor
    Vehicle vs. Cyclist
    = rider died.

    Please tell the court what the driver of the vehicle told
    you on the scene. She said "she didn't see him" At the
    scene, did you notice anything in the area that would have
    obstructed her vision? No. Was the cyclist traveling on the
    right side of the road and as far to the right as
    practicable. Based upon my observation of the skid marks,
    debris field, damage to the vehicle, and position of rest of
    the cyclist and cycle, I would conclude that indeed he was.
    And was the bicycle properly equipped with the state
    required safety equipment, reflectors bell, etc.? _Before_
    the wreck, yes. Was the rider using any additional safety
    gear? Yes, he was wearing a helmet, he had a blinking light
    affixed to his back-pack, he also had a rear-viewing mirror
    attached to his left handlebar end, also he was wearing a
    very brightly colored riding shirt and short What were the
    traffic conditions at the time of the crash. light traffic
    flow, clear skies, good visibility, dry roads. Thank you, no
    further questions.

    <FFwd>

    Judge: "I find you guilty of the charge of failure to
    maintain safe lookout, Fifty dollar fine, plus court costs"

    On the way out I hear the lawyer tell the widow: Okay, that
    is done now we can go after them in the civil courts.

    Lesson to learn here: Reflectors may be gay but if you get
    squashed by a car and don't have them, it could be a way out
    for the driver

  2. JG says:

    Quoted message said:

    Judge: "I find you guilty of the charge of failure to
    maintain safe lookout, Fifty dollar fine, plus court costs"

    [censored] should be forced to ride to work for a month - give
    him a taste of the other side of the coin....

    Steve

  3. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Judge: "I find you guilty of the charge of failure to maintain safe


    lookout,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Fifty dollar fine, plus court costs"

    [censored] should be forced to ride to work for a month -
    give him a taste of


    the

    Quoted message said:

    other side of the coin....

    This case just set everything up for the Civil case. It
    determined fault, and responsibility.

    I think the driver may find the Civil case to be much
    more punitive. Sadly it will probably be several years
    before that case is heard. Unless the Insurance Co.
    settles out of court.

  4. Stephen Baker said:

    JG says:

    Quoted message said:

    Judge: "I find you guilty of the charge of failure
    to maintain safe lookout, Fifty dollar fine, plus
    court costs"

    [censored] should be forced to ride to work for a month -
    give him a taste of the other side of the coin....

    No, the [censored] should be convicted of negligent homicide.

    Greg

    --
    Destroy your safe and happy lives Before it is too late The
    battles we fought were long and hard Just not to be consumed
    by rock'n'roll

  5. "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Had the displeasure of a court case Thursday...... Motor
    Vehicle vs.


    Cyclist

    Quoted message said:

    = rider died.

    Please tell the court what the driver of the vehicle told
    you on the


    scene.

    Quoted message said:

    She said "she didn't see him" At the scene, did you notice
    anything in the area that would have


    obstructed

    Quoted message said:

    her vision? No. Was the cyclist traveling on the right
    side of the road and as far to the right as practicable.
    Based upon my observation of the skid marks, debris field,
    damage to the vehicle, and position of rest of the cyclist
    and cycle, I would conclude that indeed he was. And was
    the bicycle properly equipped with the state required
    safety equipment, reflectors bell, etc.? _Before_ the
    wreck, yes. Was the rider using any additional safety
    gear? Yes, he was wearing a helmet, he had a blinking
    light affixed to his back-pack, he also had a rear-viewing
    mirror attached to his left


    handlebar

    Quoted message said:

    end, also he was wearing a very brightly colored riding
    shirt and short What were the traffic conditions at the
    time of the crash. light traffic flow, clear skies, good
    visibility, dry roads. Thank you, no further questions.

    <FFwd>

    Judge: "I find you guilty of the charge of failure to
    maintain safe


    lookout,

    Quoted message said:

    Fifty dollar fine, plus court costs"

    On the way out I hear the lawyer tell the widow: Okay,
    that is done now we can go after them in the civil courts.

    Lesson to learn here: Reflectors may be gay but if you get
    squashed by a car and don't have


    them,

    Quoted message said:

    it could be a way out for the driver

    This is exactly why I choose to be politically incorrect and
    ride on the sidewalk whenever possible. We may have the
    "right" to be on the street, but the difference in mass
    between a bike and a motor vehicle trump rights and
    political correctness.

    But of course, the best solution is to ride in the
    woods....then everybody's happy. Oh, except MV...lol.

  6. "mfgp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This is exactly why I choose to be politically incorrect
    and ride on the sidewalk whenever possible.

    IME, you are definately MORE at risk of getting struck
    riding on the sidewalk. I don't know what the national
    statistics on the subject are, but I have personally handled
    several M.V. vs Cycle wrecks and so far 4 out of 5 have been
    (experinced) sidewalk riders who THOUGHT they were safer on
    the sidewalk than the road. Except for the 6th, wherein the
    cyclist hit the car. Dumb-ass kid came screaming down a
    hill, out into the road, and smacked right into the side of
    the car. Driver was completely freaked out despite she was
    in _no_way_ at fault. <sigh>

    Quoted message said:

    But of course, the best solution is to ride in the
    woods....then


    everybody's

    Quoted message said:

    happy.

    This person (RIP) was a roadie.

  7. "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Lesson to learn here: Reflectors may be gay but if you get
    squashed by a car and don't have


    them,

    Quoted message said:

    it could be a way out for the driver

    Yeah, glad he had those reflectors, that $50 fine will
    really stick it to the driver...

    What a joke...

    Chris

  8. "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "mfgp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This is exactly why I choose to be politically incorrect
    and ride on the sidewalk whenever possible.

    IME, you are definately MORE at risk of getting struck
    riding on the sidewalk. I don't know what the national
    statistics on the subject are,


    but

    Quoted message said:

    I have personally handled several M.V. vs Cycle wrecks and
    so far 4 out of


    5

    Quoted message said:

    have been (experinced) sidewalk riders who THOUGHT they
    were safer on the sidewalk than the road. Except for the
    6th, wherein the cyclist hit the


    car.

    Quoted message said:

    Dumb-ass kid came screaming down a hill, out into the
    road, and smacked right into the side of the car. Driver
    was completely freaked out despite she was in _no_way_ at
    fault. <sigh>

    Quoted message said:

    But of course, the best solution is to ride in the
    woods....then


    everybody's

    Quoted message said:

    happy.

    This person (RIP) was a roadie.

    I find that interesting. In my experience, that is not the
    case. I was struck riding on the road about 10 years ago,
    which is why I ride the sidewalk now when possible. I've had
    a number of close calls with vehicles in the past 10 years,
    and all are on the road. But of course, you didn't say they
    were struck on the sidewalk--you said they were experienced
    sidewalk riders, but didn't state where the accident
    occurred. Please be more specific, as this is a very
    iteresting subject.

    You are definitely at risk of being hit crossing
    intersections and driveways while riding sidewalks. Anytime
    you leave the sidewalk and enter any place cars drive, you
    are probably much more likely to be struck because drivers
    don't generally look on the sidewalk and the rider appears
    to come out of nowhere. But of course, those type of risks
    are still on the street. Cars don't generally come up on the
    sidewalk, but they do cross it.

    The accident I had was really stupid. Got popped with a pick
    up truck mirror while riding a good 2 feet off the road on
    the shoulder. The driver, of couse, did not bother to stop.
    Fortunately, I was young enough to shake it off. Another
    couple inches would have been a different story. I feel much
    safer as far as possible away from the traffic lane, and am
    very cautious whenever I come anywhere near the road. I only
    venture to the road when absolutely necessary. That incident
    left a huge impression (not literally...).

  9. "ctg" <n/a@n/a.com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, glad he had those reflectors, that $50 fine will
    really stick it to the driver...

    Quoted message said:

    What a joke...

    You obviously missed the part about this being specifically
    the traffic violation disposition of the case. The Civil
    Suit will follow, that is where they loose the ranch.

  10. "mfgp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    But of course, you didn't say they were struck on the sidewalk--

    No, I didn't.

    Quoted message said:

    Please be more specific, as this is a very iteresting
    subject.

    As these are pending cases, That is as specific as I can
    get.

    Quoted message said:

    you are probably much more likely to be struck because
    drivers don't generally look on the sidewalk and the
    rider appears to come out of nowhere.

    Bingo!

  11. mfgp said:

    "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_XlDc.293-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "mfgp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    This is exactly why I choose to be politically incorrect
    and ride on the sidewalk whenever possible.

    IME, you are definately MORE at risk of getting struck
    riding on the sidewalk. I don't know what the national
    statistics on the subject are, but I have personally
    handled several M.V. vs Cycle wrecks and so far 4 out of
    5 have been (experinced) sidewalk riders who THOUGHT they
    were safer on the sidewalk than the road. Except for the
    6th, wherein the cyclist hit the car. Dumb-ass kid came
    screaming down a hill, out into the road, and smacked
    right into the side of the car. Driver was completely
    freaked out despite she was in _no_way_ at fault. <sigh>

    Quoted message said:

    But of course, the best solution is to ride in the
    woods....then everybody's happy.

    This person (RIP) was a roadie.

    I find that interesting. In my experience, that is not the
    case. I was struck riding on the road about 10 years ago,
    which is why I ride the sidewalk now when possible. I've
    had a number of close calls with vehicles in the past 10
    years, and all are on the road. But of course, you didn't
    say they were struck on the sidewalk--you said they were
    experienced sidewalk riders, but didn't state where the
    accident occurred. Please be more specific, as this is a
    very iteresting subject.

    This is alt.mountain-bike. Ask your question in
    rec.bicycles.misc and see what they ("the roadies"😉 say.

    Bill "just don your flamesuit first" S.

  12. Its simple, before you get your driving licence, you spend a
    month in all weathers riding on a bike, if you cant hack it,
    no licence, tough [censored]. I'm an "EX" motorcyclist and put up
    with [censored] drivers for years. The only advantage I had was
    nobody could keep up to drive into the back of me.

    I blame the driving schools, what difference do reflectors
    have in daylight, f*%k all, the driver was negligent, never
    looked. Cyclists are classed as pedestrians, car drivers are
    driving weapons of mass destruction END OF STORY.

    Ash "ctg" <n/a@n/a.com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l0fDc.146-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Lesson to learn here: Reflectors may be gay but if you
    get squashed by a car and don't have


    them,

    Quoted message said:

    it could be a way out for the driver

    Yeah, glad he had those reflectors, that $50 fine will
    really stick it to the driver...

    What a joke...

    Chris

  13. "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "ctg" <n/a@n/a.com> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, glad he had those reflectors, that $50 fine will
    really stick it


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the driver...

    Quoted message said:

    What a joke...

    You obviously missed the part about this being
    specifically the traffic violation disposition of the
    case. The Civil Suit will follow, that is where they loose
    the ranch.

    No, I didn't. The fact that one can kill another person by
    not paying attention and the only criminal punishment is a
    $50 fine is a joke.

    Yes, they may be hurt in a civil case but there should be
    more protection for cyclists in the criminal code.

    Chris

  14. "Ashley Saunby" wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Cyclists are classed as pedestrians,

    NOT

    Sec. 21-197. Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles.
    Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be
    granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the
    duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this
    chapter, except as to special regulations in this chapter
    and except as to those provisions of this chapter which by
    their nature can have no application. (Ord. No. 2155, § 15-20-
    75; Code 1967, § 10-3) State law references: Similar
    provisions, T.C.A. § 55-8-172.

    livepublish.municode.com1f
    ef/2374/237e

  15. "ctg" <n/a@n/a.com> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You obviously missed the part about this being
    specifically the traffic violation disposition of the
    case. The Civil Suit will follow, that is where they
    loose the ranch.

    No, I didn't. The fact that one can kill another person by
    not paying attention and the only criminal punishment is a
    $50 fine is a joke.

    This was TRAFFIC Court, it is up to the D.A. to file
    the criminal charges, based upon the outcome of the
    traffic case.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, they may be hurt in a civil case but there should be
    more protection for cyclists in the criminal code.

    Precisely, we are not talking about the Criminal Code here,
    just the Traffic Code.

  16. "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    I have personally handled several M.V. vs Cycle wrecks

    Uh, Clyde? You might make clear that in this context M.V.
    means "motor vehicle".

    ;-)

    CC

  17. "Corvus Corvax" wrote in message > "J G"
    <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have personally handled several M.V. vs Cycle wrecks

    Quoted message said:

    Uh, Clyde?

    Yes.......

    Quoted message said:

    You might make clear that in this context M.V. means "motor
    vehicle".

    Is there much of a difference?-(

  18. mfgp said:


    "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    IME, you are definately MORE at risk of getting struck
    riding on the sidewalk. <snip>

    I find that interesting. In my experience, that is not the
    case. I was struck riding on the road about 10 years ago,
    which is why I ride the sidewalk now when possible. I've
    had a number of close calls with vehicles in the past 10
    years, and all are on the road. But of course, you didn't
    say they were struck on the sidewalk--you said they were
    experienced sidewalk riders, but didn't state where the
    accident occurred. Please be more specific, as this is a
    very iteresting subject.

    You are definitely at risk of being hit crossing
    intersections and driveways while riding sidewalks. Anytime
    you leave the sidewalk and enter any place cars drive, you
    are probably much more likely to be struck because drivers
    don't generally look on the sidewalk and the rider appears
    to come out of nowhere. But of course, those type of risks
    are still on the street. Cars don't generally come up on
    the sidewalk, but they do cross it.

    When you're riding on a sidewalk, every driveway is an
    "intersection"
    - one that most motorists won't check before crossing. Or at
    least, they won't look beyond the distance that they'd
    expect someone moving at a pedestrian pace to be. If you
    ride very, very slowly on the sidewalk it's not horribly
    dangerous - but if you are moving at any reasonable
    cycling speed, it's a different story.

    Then there are all the other sidewalk users, none of which
    are likely to expect a rapidly moving bicycle to pass them.
    People, dogs, cats, whatever - will cross a sidewalk from
    any direction without a second thought.

    On the road, chances are drivers and pedestrians are going
    to look for vehicular traffic before pulling out. That's
    not ALWAYS the case (something I can unfortunately attest
    to from personal experience), but the odds are much better
    on the road.

    Quoted message said:

    The accident I had was really stupid. Got popped with a
    pick up truck mirror while riding a good 2 feet off the
    road on the shoulder. The driver, of couse, did not bother
    to stop. Fortunately, I was young enough to shake it off.
    Another couple inches would have been a different story. I
    feel much safer as far as possible away from the traffic
    lane, and am very cautious whenever I come anywhere near
    the road. I only venture to the road when absolutely
    necessary. That incident left a huge impression (not
    literally...).

    FWIW, this type of accident makes up a very small percentage
    of the overall bike/car accident statistic (just a few %),
    though it's the one that most new cyclists tend to worry
    most about.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.com Home of
    the $695 ti frame

  19. I'm in the UK, but yes I think your traffic laws are
    probably similar to ours.

    Ash

    "J G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oXoDc.15415-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ashley Saunby" wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Cyclists are classed as pedestrians,

    NOT

    Sec. 21-197. Traffic laws apply to persons riding
    bicycles. Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway
    shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to
    all of the duties applicable to the driver


    of

    Quoted message said:

    a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special
    regulations in this


    chapter

    Quoted message said:

    and except as to those provisions of this chapter which by
    their nature


    can

    Quoted message said:

    have no application. (Ord. No. 2155, § 15-20-75; Code
    1967, § 10-3) State law references: Similar provisions,
    T.C.A. § 55-8-172.

    livepublish.municode.comlivepublish.municode.com
    1fef/2374/237e

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