Some Advice?

On 2004-06-22, Dave Fluker <[email hidden]> wrote:

May I suggest that you start by saying what shoes you are
wearing ? New Balance make dozens of different shoes.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Dave Fluker said:

Hi,

After many years I have taken up running as part of my
exercise routine (plus the AF Reserve now requires us to
run 1 1/2 mile).

Anyway, I am hoping someone can advise me about running
shoes and knee problems? I started doing about 3/4 mile
run/walk (ok I'm 45 and not in great running shape yet)
and was using some older Fila Crosstraining shoes I had.
They are heavy shoes and I wanted to lighten the weight on
my feet so I bought some New Balance light running shoes.
Problem is, when I run in the NB shoes, my knees suffer
tremendously (sore. slightly swollen and tender). I have
to take a couple days off and then go back to the Filas
which don't hurt the knees at all but seem to weigh a ton.

Running with either shoe is on the same surface so I am
wondering whether the new shoes are making my legs and
feet do something different or if maybe the lighter weight
of the shoe is putting more pounding on the knees. Anyone
have any suggestions, ideas or experience with this.

I should also mention that I am flat-footed and don't know
if that may have anything to do with it.

Appreciate any feedback.

Dave

Dave,

It sounds like you got an off-the-shelf light
cushioning shoe. You symptoms sure sound like pronation
leading to knee stress. You probably need a stability
or motion control shoe. Your best bet is to march over
to a local running store where the staff are
experienced runners. These are hard to find, but when
you do, you'll have folks who can watch you job or run
in various pairs of shoes and recommend a pair that
suits you well based on your running mechanics and
weight. Good luck.

ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,-
,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, at least go long." ø¤º°`°º¤-
ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

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Quoted message said:

Any suggestions for a lightweight shoe that will absorb
impact well?

Do you have a real running store in your city? We have
RunTex here in Austin and they are great at recommending
shoes. If you have old shoes you should bring them in. They
can look at the wear and it helps them make a suggestion.
It's hard to suggest anything online. I can't see you, know
your running style, etc.

Welcome to running!

- --
John Mayson <[email hidden]> Austin, Texas, USA

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New Balance SL-1 Running CM426NG

Dave "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-06-22, Dave Fluker
<[email hidden]> wrote:

May I suggest that you start by saying what shoes you are
wearing ? New

Balance

Quoted message said:

make dozens of different shoes.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Another option is to get an orthodic made that corrects YOUR
feet. There are different kinds, made by podiatrists
(stiff), chiropractors (soft) molded to your foot.

The book says I need motion control shoes, but they work
horribly for
me. Each person is an individual. I love Sacouny Jazz, which
are flexible and have a lot of cushion with my
orthodics. Also, take it easy, a bit at a time.

eNo said:

Dave Fluker said:

Hi,

After many years I have taken up running as part of my
exercise routine (plus the AF Reserve now requires us to
run 1 1/2 mile).

Anyway, I am hoping someone can advise me about running
shoes and knee problems? I started doing about 3/4 mile
run/walk (ok I'm 45 and not in great running shape yet)
and was using some older Fila Crosstraining shoes I had.
They are heavy shoes and I wanted to lighten the weight
on my feet so I bought some New Balance light running
shoes. Problem is, when I run in the NB shoes, my knees
suffer tremendously (sore. slightly swollen and tender).
I have to take a couple days off and then go back to the
Filas which don't hurt the knees at all but seem to
weigh a ton.

Running with either shoe is on the same surface so I am
wondering whether the new shoes are making my legs and
feet do something different or if maybe the lighter
weight of the shoe is putting more pounding on the
knees. Anyone have any suggestions, ideas or experience
with this.

I should also mention that I am flat-footed and don't
know if that may have anything to do with it.

Appreciate any feedback.

Dave

Dave,

It sounds like you got an off-the-shelf light
cushioning shoe. You symptoms sure sound like
pronation leading to knee stress. You probably need a
stability or motion control shoe. Your best bet is to
march over to a local running store where the staff
are experienced runners. These are hard to find, but
when you do, you'll have folks who can watch you job
or run in various pairs of shoes and recommend a pair
that suits you well based on your running mechanics
and weight. Good luck.

ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤-
ø,,,,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, at least go long."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤-
ø,,,,ø¤º

Dave Fluker said:

New Balance SL-1 Running CM426NG

This is not a running shoe. That's probably your problem.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and ideas. My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily and
does marathons on a regular basis. He recommended the Nike
Air Max shoe. From what I have read (and thanks for the
great links), it provides great cushion against impact esp.
for those like me that tend to overpronate.

Dave "Beach Runner" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another option is to get an orthodic made that corrects
YOUR feet. There are different kinds, made by podiatrists
(stiff), chiropractors (soft) molded to your foot.

The book says I need motion control shoes, but they work
horribly for
me. Each person is an individual. I love Sacouny Jazz,
which are flexible and have a lot of cushion with my
orthodics. Also, take it easy, a bit at a time.

eNo said:

Dave Fluker said:

Hi,

After many years I have taken up running as part of my
exercise routine (plus the AF Reserve now requires us
to run 1 1/2 mile).

Anyway, I am hoping someone can advise me about running
shoes and knee problems? I started doing about 3/4 mile
run/walk (ok I'm 45 and not

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

great running shape yet) and was using some older Fila
Crosstraining shoes I had. They are heavy shoes and I
wanted to lighten the weight on my feet so I bought
some New Balance light running shoes. Problem is, when
I run in the NB shoes, my knees suffer tremendously
(sore. slightly swollen and tender). I have to take a
couple days off and then go back to the

Filas

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which don't hurt the knees at all but seem to weigh
a ton.

Running with either shoe is on the same surface so I am
wondering whether the new shoes are making my legs and
feet do something different or if maybe the lighter
weight of the shoe is putting more pounding on the
knees. Anyone have any suggestions, ideas or experience
with this.

I should also mention that I am flat-footed and don't
know if that may have anything to do with it.

Appreciate any feedback.

Dave

Dave,

It sounds like you got an off-the-shelf light
cushioning shoe. You symptoms sure sound like
pronation leading to knee stress. You probably need
a stability or motion control shoe. Your best bet is
to march over to a local running store where the
staff are experienced runners. These are hard to
find, but when you do, you'll have folks who can
watch you job or run in various pairs of shoes and
recommend a pair that suits you well based on your
running mechanics and weight. Good luck.

ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤-
ø,,,,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, at least go long."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤-
ø,,,,ø¤º

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. Went over to
NB web site and couldn't even find the shoe listed. Called
them and was told that the CM are versions made for certain
retailers (in this case SportMart) and that this model was
not good at absorbing impact on a run. I guess it might be
a fair bet to say that the knee strain is a result of high
impact on the knees from these crummy shoes? Since the
Filas don't make my knees hurt, and are much heavier, I
think I need some help in selecting a proper running shoe
for my needs.

Any suggestions for a lightweight shoe that will absorb
impact well?

Again thanks!

Dave "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Fluker said:

New Balance SL-1 Running CM426NG

This is not a running shoe. That's probably your problem.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and ideas. My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily and
does marathons on a regular basis.

Has your friend watched you run or looked at your feet?

He recommended the Nike Air Max shoe. From what I have

Quoted message said:

read (and thanks for the great links), it provides great
cushion against impact esp. for those like me that tend to
overpronate.

Your feet are different than mine, *but* cushioning may
aggravate overpronation. Some levels of cushioning may
create instability. I can't even wear cushioned shoes
for walking.

If you have one in your area, it might be good to visit a
running shoe store with knowledgeable sales people that can
watch you run and match you with the correct shoe. There's
no guarantee that they'll get it right, but it's one of the
better ways for a first guess.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and ideas. My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily and
does marathons on a regular basis. He recommended the Nike
Air Max shoe. From what I have read (and thanks for the
great links), it provides great cushion against impact
esp. for those like me that tend to overpronate.

The Nike Air Max shoe is a *cushioning* shoe, not
appropriate for overpronators.

This is *NOT* the same shoe as the Nike Air *Max Moto*
shoe which is a stability shoe (and would be more
appropriate for you)

Off the top of my head, some shoes worth looking at:

Saucony Omni or Hurricane
NB 1220 or 1221 Asics 2090 or Kayano

Anyway, I'd recommend trying shoes from a number of vendors.
What works for someone else may not work for you. I'd never
just recommend one shoe to anyone. I wear 5 different models
of shoe, and there are about 10 or so cushion shoes I'd feel
comfortable recommending.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Roadrunnersports has a shoefinder called "shoe dog".

If you can get your hands on their catalog, it is a useful
tool. You might not want to mail order shoes that you
aren't sure will fit you. The third page or so of the
catalog lists every type of shoe they carry and all the
specifications you need to consider. Take it with you to
the store, look for the shoes you want. Look up running
clubs in your city and see if you can find a real running
shoe store...usually the one that supports the local races.
If you go to a regular Footlocker or something, ignore the
sales staff. Those people probably never run more than the
length of a basketball court. They will just tell you what
is written on the box.

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. Went over
to NB web site and couldn't even find the shoe listed.
Called them and was told that the CM are versions made
for certain retailers (in this case SportMart) and that
this model was not good at absorbing impact on a run. I
guess it might be a fair bet to say that the knee strain
is a result of high impact on the knees from these
crummy shoes?

Yes. I've had friends run into all sorts of trouble when
using inappropriate footwear.

Quoted message said:

Since the Filas don't make my knees hurt, and are much
heavier, I think I need some help in selecting a proper
running shoe for my needs.

Google for information on overpronation/underpronation

Start with a "shoes 101" course from running times:

runningtimes.comindex.htmOpen ↗

Also look around the roadrunnersports.com website.

Quoted message said:

Any suggestions for a lightweight shoe that will absorb
impact well?

Wouldn't recommend looking for shoes in the "lightweight
trainer" category -- these offer less durability, cushioning
and support. I think you'll find that most running shoes
should be as light as the cheapo NB shoes you had.

What you need to do is find out whether you need stability,
motion control or cushion shoes. This depends on your
running biomechanics and the shape of your feet. Once you've
worked that out, there are also different shoes that are
appropriate for lighter and for heavier runners. Then
there's individual preference.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Dot dot.h@#att.net said:

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and ideas. My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily and
does marathons on a regular basis.

Has your friend watched you run or looked at your feet?

Good question. One might also ask, has he run daily or run
marathons using the other guys feet ? Because that's about
the only way one can narrow it down to a single model.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Where do you live? We can then help point you to someone who
makes great orthodics. Nothing is better than an orthodic
made for your feet.

I have 4 pairs, the best made by a Chiropractor in NYC. They
are soft and flexible, wanting to use all the muscles in my
feet while correcting angles and the spread of my
metatarsal. 2 Orthodics i never wear, and a third were made
then years ago by a podiatrist. I'd recommend the one's in
NY City above all else, Dr. Amram Weiner.

Bob

Donovan Rebbechi said:

On 2004-06-23, Dave Fluker <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and ideas. My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily and
does marathons on a regular basis. He recommended the Nike
Air Max shoe. From what I have read (and thanks for the
great links), it provides great cushion against impact
esp. for those like me that tend to overpronate.

The Nike Air Max shoe is a *cushioning* shoe, not
appropriate for overpronators.

This is *NOT* the same shoe as the Nike Air *Max Moto*
shoe which is a stability shoe (and would be more
appropriate for you)

Off the top of my head, some shoes worth looking at:

Saucony Omni or Hurricane
NB 1220 or 1221 Asics 2090 or Kayano

Anyway, I'd recommend trying shoes from a number of
vendors. What works for someone else may not work for you.
I'd never just recommend one shoe to anyone. I wear 5
different models of shoe, and there are about 10 or so
cushion shoes I'd feel comfortable recommending.

Cheers,

I was doing a couple of things this morning and took a look
at 2 points regarding my feet and running.

1 - I am completely flat-footed

2 - the Fila shoes that I can run in, as well as my other
shoes, are all worn at the outer back heal first (which I
believe is an indicator of overpronation).

Sadly, the Fila are older shoes with no model # on them
(just Style
#1-J3-144)

Dave

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and

ideas.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily
and does marathons

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a regular basis. He recommended the Nike Air Max shoe.
From what I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

read (and thanks for the great links), it provides great
cushion against impact esp. for those like me that tend
to overpronate.

The Nike Air Max shoe is a *cushioning* shoe, not
appropriate for overpronators.

This is *NOT* the same shoe as the Nike Air *Max Moto*
shoe which is a stability shoe (and would be more
appropriate for you)

Off the top of my head, some shoes worth looking at:

Saucony Omni or Hurricane
NB 1220 or 1221 Asics 2090 or Kayano

Anyway, I'd recommend trying shoes from a number of
vendors. What works

for

Quoted message said:

someone else may not work for you. I'd never just
recommend one shoe to

anyone.

Quoted message said:

I wear 5 different models of shoe, and there are about 10
or so cushion

shoes

Quoted message said:

I'd feel comfortable recommending.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi said:

What you need to do is find out whether you need
stability, motion control or cushion shoes. This depends
on your running biomechanics and the shape of your feet.
Once you've worked that out, there are also different
shoes that are appropriate for lighter and for heavier
runners. Then there's individual preference.

I found a good specialty running store to be extremely
helpful in this regard. The kind folks at my local store
(Brainsport in Saskatoon, SK) spent the better part of 2
hours helping me try on various shoes, which they suggested
based on examining my feet and how I stood. They can also
make suggestions based on looking at the wear of your old
shoes. They offer a return policy, suggesting I take my
first run on a treadmill and bring them back if I detected
any problems. You won't get that kind of service from the
discount stores, although I understand it's not uncommon in
similar specialty stores.

Neil

Good points here. I will definitely do some research and get
my feet and running style checked before I buy any shoes.
Seems there are too many variables involved to risk just
trying a pair on recommendation.

Dave "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dot dot.h@#att.net said:

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and

ideas.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily
and does

marathons on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a regular basis.

Has your friend watched you run or looked at your feet?

Good question. One might also ask, has he run daily or run
marathons using

the

Quoted message said:

other guys feet ? Because that's about the only way one
can narrow it down

to a

Quoted message said:

single model.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Gilroy, California
"Beach Runner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Where do you live? We can then help point you to someone
who makes great orthodics. Nothing is better than an
orthodic made for your feet.

I have 4 pairs, the best made by a Chiropractor in NYC.
They are soft and flexible, wanting to use all the muscles
in my feet while correcting angles and the spread of my
metatarsal. 2 Orthodics i never wear, and a third were
made then years ago by a podiatrist. I'd recommend the
one's in NY City above all else, Dr. Amram Weiner.

Bob

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Dave Fluker said:

Thanks so much to all of you who replied. Some great
information and

ideas.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My knees will thank you as well.

Spoke with a friend of mine in Salinas who runs daily
and does marathons

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a regular basis. He recommended the Nike Air Max shoe.
From what I

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

read (and thanks for the great links), it provides great
cushion against impact esp. for those like me that tend
to overpronate.

The Nike Air Max shoe is a *cushioning* shoe, not
appropriate for overpronators.

This is *NOT* the same shoe as the Nike Air *Max Moto*
shoe which is a stability shoe (and would be more
appropriate for you)

Off the top of my head, some shoes worth looking at:

Saucony Omni or Hurricane
NB 1220 or 1221 Asics 2090 or Kayano

Anyway, I'd recommend trying shoes from a number of
vendors. What works

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

someone else may not work for you. I'd never just
recommend one shoe to

anyone.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wear 5 different models of shoe, and there are about 10
or so cushion

shoes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd feel comfortable recommending.

Cheers,

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Quoted message said:

Sadly there is no real running store here in Gilroy.
Closest would be in San Jose or over in Aptos/Santa Cruz.
Since I have received so much great information about this
here, I will make the trek to a real store so that I get
an appropriate pair or two of running shoes.

But you have all of that garlic. ;-)

Could you make a trip, find your show, then know that's your
shoe? Just keeping buying those or shoes like them?

- --
John Mayson <[email hidden]> Austin, Texas, USA

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