durable rim suggestions

winter-<< I want to reuse the Phil Wood freewheel hub and
have another durable wheel built. The old wheel was a Mavic
MA40 36h with straight 14 gauge spokes. I weigh 210 lbs. and
ride on smooth and rough pavement. Any suggestions for a
good rim to use? Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Velocity Fusion, Deep V or Razor Mavic CXP-33 Torelli
Master or Expert

Stay away from the MA-3. We just had another one we built
pull the eyelets out. About a dozen so far.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

After 9 years of trouble free service, the rear rim on my
bike cracked at one of the spoke holes. I want to reuse
the Phil Wood freewheel hub and have another durable wheel
built. The old wheel was a Mavic MA40 36h with straight 14
gauge spokes. I weigh 210 lbs. and ride on smooth and
rough pavement. Any suggestions for a good rim to use?
Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro? Bontrager
Maverick? Sun CR-18?

Thanks, Benny

If you use the Torelli Master or the Sun CR-18, you can
probably reuse your old spokes, since those rims have the
same or nearly the same ERD as the MA40. (I'm going on the
assumption that the MA40 has the same ERD as the MA2; you
should probably double check).

I can't speak about the Torelli Master except that the pair
I bought recently look very well made. I've read reports
that you practically have to crowbar tires onto the rim, but
I didn't find that to be the case with Avocet and Panaracer
Pasela tires (I did use a thin rim strip however).

I've used CR-18s for years and am very pleased with their
price, their lack of sidewall machining and their
durability. They're often used by touring cyclists. They're
quite a bit heavier than the Open Pro or the Master, though.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

winter-<< I want to reuse the Phil Wood freewheel hub and
have another durable wheel built. The old wheel was a Mavic
MA40 36h with straight 14 gauge spokes. I weigh 210 lbs.
and ride on smooth and rough pavement. Any suggestions for
a good rim to use? Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open
Pro? >><BR><BR>

Velocity Fusion, Deep V or Razor Mavic CXP-33 Torelli
Master or Expert

Stay away from the MA-3. We just had another one we built
pull the eyelets

out.

Quoted message said:

About a dozen so far.

I hope you complained to Mavic. Maybe they will bring back
the superior MA-2.
-----------------
Alex

Quoted message said:

After 9 years of trouble free service, the rear rim on my
bike cracked at one of the spoke holes. I want to reuse
the Phil Wood freewheel hub and have another durable wheel
built. The old wheel was a Mavic MA40 36h with straight 14
gauge spokes. I weigh 210 lbs. and ride on smooth and
rough pavement. Any suggestions for a good rim to use?
Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro? Bontrager
Maverick? Sun CR-18?

Open Pro has sockets at the spoke holes that enables each
spoke to pull on more than just the inner wall. So it's
better than many other rims in that respect, less likely to
crack at the holes. That's not to say it's strong enough for
you altogether (I would think so but it depends how rough
the "rough" is).

~PB

[email hidden] (Gary Young) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

I can't speak about the Torelli Master except that the
pair I bought recently look very well made. I've read
reports that you practically have to crowbar tires onto
the rim, but I didn't find that to be the case with Avocet
and Panaracer Pasela tires (I did use a thin rim strip
however).

I think the issue here is how wide are your tires? If
you're planning on using tires that actual measure 18, 19,
20mm, even 21mm wide, then yes, you may need a *crowbar* to
mount these tires. I too use Avocet tires, but I'm using
the 700x25 carbon 12 and 700x28 fasgrip tires (which
actually measure between 24-26mm wide). Mounting tires is
fast and easy.....

"Gary Young" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I've used CR-18s for years and am very pleased with their
price, their lack of sidewall machining and their
durability. They're often used by touring cyclists.
They're quite a bit heavier than the Open Pro or the
Master, though.

I went with a CR-18 for my fixed gear rear wheel, since I
weigh 235 and FG rears take a bit of a beating. After
several years and ~10K miles it's still going strong.

On 23 Jun 2004 12:29:07 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

Velocity Fusion, Deep V or Razor Mavic CXP-33 Torelli
Master or Expert

Thanks. What about the Velocity Aerohead and Aerohead OC? I
would like to have a slightly lighter wheel, but not at the
cost of durability.

Anyone know of a good wheelbuilder in Georgia? The local
guys came up in the days of designer wheels and don't really
have the skills.

Benny

On 25 Jun 2004 12:58:28 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

winter<< Thanks. What about the Velocity Aerohead and
Aerohead OC? I would like to have a slightly lighter wheel,
but not at the cost of durability. >><BR><BR>

No such thing as a free lunch. I think you are a bit heavy
for an Aerohead on the rear.

I weigh ~200 lbs and run Aerohead rims 32 hole with 15/16
spokes and they are fine. I built a set of tandem wheels on
an Aerohead OC rear, 36 holes x 14/15 ga on 130 spaced hubs.
The tandem team and bike ~280 lbs. The owner reports the
wheelset to be stable and hasn't touched them with a spoke
wrench yet.

On 26 Jun 2004 12:59:06 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

Paul-<< I weigh ~200 lbs and run Aerohead rims 32 hole with
15/16 spokes and they are fine. I built a set of tandem
wheels on an Aerohead OC rear, 36 holes x 14/15 ga on 130
spaced hubs. The tandem team and bike ~280 lbs. The owner
reports the wheelset to be stable and hasn't touched them
with a spoke wrench yet. >><BR><BR>

Fine and dandy. Why try to save 40 grams on a package that
weighs 220 to 280 pounds??

As a wheelbuilder that must stand behind every wheel I
build, I say Aeroheads for a .1 of a ton rider is foolish
and on a tandem ridiculous.

There is no reason not to use 15/16 ga spokes on a wheel vs
the 14/15. The spokes dont break or wear out. I was using 28
hole wheelsets with
14/15 ga. Prebuilt wheels like Cane Creek, Helium,
Velomax, American Classic, and others still use only 28
holes, or less.

The tandem wheel was what the owner wanted and is a weak
choice. Originally, they had Ksyriums that kept failing.
Additionally, they insist on 700x23 Michelin Pro Race tires,
another very poor choice. The tandem is a Cafee Dragonfly
and weight is everything.

Paul Kopit said:

The tandem wheel was what the owner wanted and is a weak
choice. Originally, they had Ksyriums that kept failing.
Additionally, they insist on 700x23 Michelin Pro Race
tires, another very poor choice. The tandem is a Cafee
Dragonfly and weight is everything.

Obviously they had very different priorities than mine. I'm
looking for a durable trouble free wheelset built on my
existing Phil Wood 36h hubs. The MA-40 rims gave me 9 good
years (about 14,000 miles) but I don't want another hard
anodized rim. If the MA-2 were still in production, I'd have
no decision to make. The best I can tell from the reseach
I've done is that the Torelli Master is the closest I can
get to the MA-2. At 210 lbs, I'm not going to get too silly
about grams, but I would prefer a wheel slightly lighter
than what I've had, definitely not heavier. How much lighter
is a 36 spoke wheel using 14/15 db spokes
pa. the straight 14 spokes I has before? How much lighter
for 15/16?

Benny

On 28 Jun 2004 12:55:49 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

As for the tandem, I would not build the wheel, period.
They would have to go somewhere else for a rear Aerohead
wheel for a tandem. WE gotta stand behind the things we
sell. If the customer is making the mistake, and it goes to
hell, the LBS still loses for selling it to them.

Weight is NOT everything, if the stinking thing strands the
customer. If you build that wheel you are not doing your
JOB educating the customer, but I know you aren't in the
bike biz.

Butted spokes are the way to go. The spokes do support the
wheel. Each 15/16 ga spoke has the same tension as a 14/15
ga spoke. The thinner spoke is justified the same way that a
14/15 ga is more durable than a straight 14 ga.

You can't tell a weight weenie anything.

I'm glad I don't have to make a living in the bicycle
business but I have been in the Nutritional Supplement
business for 30 years. You can't tell a supplement fanatic
anything either. They just don't want the facts.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What
advantage does a 15/16

have

Quoted message said:

over a 14/15??

<Paul< You can't tell a weight weenie anything. >><BR><BR>

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so,
that sounds good enough to me.

Andrew Lee said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What
advantage does a
15/16 have over a 14/15??

<Paul< You can't tell a weight weenie anything.

Quoted message said:

><BR><BR>

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so,
that sounds good enough to me.

You were misled.

Bill "not even slightly original" S.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so,
that sounds good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over? Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur intended) . . . 😉

Any OCR is going to outlast a std rim - what about Ritchey's Zero hubs and rims for keeping things evenly tensioned?

MH

mfhor said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so,
that sounds good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum
that says when someone accuses someone else of being a
Nazi, the debate is over? Except that in our case, the
invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur intended) . . . 😉

You quote no one, reply under my post (but delete what I had
written), and mix threads a bit. I can only conclude...

You're a Nazi.

Bill "we're all goin' to heil" S.

S o r n i said:

mfhor said:

Quoted message said:

> We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so,
that sounds good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum
that says when someone accuses someone else of being a
Nazi, the debate is over? Except that in our case, the
invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur intended) . . . 😉

You quote no one, reply under my post (but delete what I
had written), and mix threads a bit. I can only conclude...

You're a Nazi.

You Goodwin'd the wrong thread!!! D'Oh!

Quoted message said:

Bill "we're all goin' to heil" S.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

I placed an inquiry with Joe Young (Youngwheels.com) about light, durable wheels that would support my weight (200 lb) and riding (mostly smooth roads) and received a great response. Many of you will recognize Joe as one of the premier wheel builders in the US. The wheels he recommends are about twice that of my current set (Wheelsmith built Mavics w/DA hubs, double-butted spokes), but he claims the DT parts are superior. I thought some of you might be interested in his response.

Hi Jesse,

My experience has been the Velocity rims have less quality metal than the Mavic rims. I am not able to use as much tension with Velocity as Mavic. I prefer the new DT RR 1.1 to Velocit or Mavic. The RR 1.1 rims have a slightly higher profile, are lighter (415 grams) and have higher quality metal.

For your size and riding preferences I would recommend my lightest design (lighter and faster than Krysium) that would hold up to lots of miles with little or no service needed.

My classic design emphasizes low weight on the out side diameter of the wheel where less weight is most meaningful. Less weight here means better acceleration and climbing efficiency. The "aero" look wheels have more weight on the outside diameter to support the lower spoke count. This is OK for straight line time trail situations where acceleration and climbing is not and issue but not as fast in most race and training situations. Also if you read the fine print in wheel wind tunnel tests they state that there is little or no aero effect at speeds under 30 MPH. My wheel designs are also easier to repair should an accident, like a pedal in the wheel, require spoke replacement.

For hubs I recommend DT Hugi 240 (96 grams front 235 grams rear) DT Hubs are Swiss made with all cartridge bearings and labaynth seals to keep out water and dirt.They roll much faster than cone and loose ball bearing hubs like Shimano and Campagnolo and are much easier to service. DT hubs have a special rear flange design for 9/10 speed drive systems that reduces the tension difference between the drive and non drive spokes that are found in conventional hubs. This tension difference reduces stability in the wheel reducing performance and causing the wheel to need re-tension and truing on a regular basis.

Second choice hub would be DT Onyx. Built with the same quality as the 240S the onyx has a standard pawl and spring drive system and steel axle but with cartridge bearings and seals. The drive and axle adds a bit of weight but costs less. I find this hub to be superior to the Dura Ace and actually costs less.

DT RR 1.1 rims are the lightest quality rims (420 grams). They have single eyelets, are welded for a smooth braking surface and have dependable availability.

For spokes I like the new DT Swiss Super Competition 2.0/1.7/1.8 gage triple butted. The 2.0 GA at the hub flange for strength,1.7 in the center for light weight and less wind up and 1.8 at the nipple for less weight and strength . This spoke is 30% lighter than the standard Competition but doesn't wind up as bad as the Revolution 14/15/14. I have found I can't get adequate tension with the Revolution which produces a wimpy wheel. Available in black only with Alloy nipples any color. 3X cross rear and 2X front. I find using more durable and slightly heavier spokes gives the wheel more stability and longevity. Power transfer from pedal to ground is more efficient which off sets any weight gain several fold.
.

Second choice spoke is the DT Competition 2.0X1.8X2.0 double butted. Again a bit more weight but less $$.

Here is one design/quote:

DT 240S road hubs $315.00 pair

DT Onyx road $175.00 pair

DT RR1.1 black or silver $140.00 pair

DT Super Competition spokes black only with any color alloy nipple $1.15 each

DT Competition spokes stainless steel silver $.80 each plated brass nipples silver, $.85 plated brass black, $1.00 alloy any color. For black spokes add $.15.

Labor to build $90.00 pair

I use a bit higher tension in my wheels and use a spoke tension meter to insure that the spokes are at the proper tension and that each spoke is within 5% of the other spokes in the front wheel and each side of the rear wheel. This method helps the wheel stay tensioned and true usually for the life of the rim.

If you want to go into this concept further or want more options please call or email.

Regards,

Joe Young

Joe Young Wheels
Joe Young Wheels
Phone:830 997 6376

forum writes-<< I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were
15/16. If so, that sounds

Quoted message said:

good enough to me. >><BR><BR>

BUT laced to a much heavier rim.

forum-<< Any OCR is going to outlast a std rim >><BR><BR>

Depends on the rim. A light OCR rim will NOT outlast a
heavier non OCR rim. OCR is not a panacea for light rims,
low spoke count, thin spokes.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jesse-<< I placed an inquiry with Joe Young
(Youngwheels.com) about light, durable wheels that would
support my weight (200 lb) and riding (mostly smooth roads)
and received a great response.

Long reponse but e-mail me direct on the many points he
mentions that IME, are not true. Like how 'fast' hubs are,
how DT hubs are 'faster and smoother and easier to service',
than shimano or Campagnolo. How he 'knows' that DT rims are
a superior 'metal'. How weight at the rim makes for better
climbing, etc. Also how DT flanges remove the requirement
for regular retensioning and truing.

How tyhe tension of Velocity rimns are less than other rims?

There is so much bugleoil in his respose, it makes me cring.

No such animal as Revolution 14/15/15, less windup with a
2/1.7/1.8 spoke?

Plus $.80 per spoker for 14/15 spokes? yikes.

Me thinks he gets a huge $$ something from DT.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"