Weight Training

what sort of cycling do you do? do you do endurance racing (i.e., races that last > 90-secs), if so it's likely to be detrimental to your cycling performance.

ric

I agree with ric. Generally its not a good idea to weight train AND ride - especially if you are expecting high performance gains on the bike.

During the summer when i ride daily monday - friday, I do sit ups, press ups and pull ups - but keep it to a minimum and only do these during weekends.

Its best to leave the more serious excercises, as listed in this program, until winter when probably you ride less.

The basic rule, is high reps and low weight for endurance, or low reps and high weight for strength.

You can also do a combination, where you do 4 weeks of endurance style weight training and 6 weeks of strength weight training and then reverse - 6 weeks of endurance and 4 weeks of strength....reverse.

steve007,

that's not what i meant! basically, if you do endurance cycle racing (i.e., races > ~ 90-secs, e.g., RRs, TTs, MTB, etc) then weight training will be detrimental to performance, whenever you do those exercises. the forces required in these races are very low to moderate, such that anyone (age, gender, and mass-matched, healthy, sedentary controls) can meet them.

additionally, if you the weights 'endurance' route, then there is no crossover to any other exercise modality -- as these gains are only neuromuscular in nature, and occur only at the joint angle and velocity at which they're trained.

if you want some cross over to another modality (e.g., cycling) then there has to be significant hypertrophy (i.e., increase in muscle cross sectional area) which occurs with heavy weights. of course, then you're at a disadvantage as a) you've got more weight to lug up a hill, and b) muscle mitochondria and capillary density have decreased

ric

Thanks for the advice! I appreciate the insight. I'm doing endurance training, so I'll watch out for the extra muscle mass until the harsh, New England Winter comes back and steals my riding time. Thanks again!

-Chris

I think weight traing being beneficial is the biggest 'myth' in cycling. Cycling in itself is a form of resistence training...and is much more specific than hurling dumbells and barbells. Perhaps there is a place for it in the winter...I don't know. But in the summer when the weather is nice and you could be out riding....why in the world would anyone want to be in a gym hurling weights? I believe the best way to become a better cyclist is to get out and cycle. Spend time cycling. There is so much more to being a good cyclist than just raw strength that you get from weights. You'll need fitness...endurance.....power...technique.....rythm. You'll need to lose weight. Your body needs to get more effecient at cycling...not weights. Weights do nothing to make you a more effecient cyclist. Besides..the resistence from the road will be more than enough resistence to your muscles to make them hard as nails!!!!!!!!!

Lemond said he never did weights when he was winning the tour.

I think weight training is losing it's appeal amongst the peloton anyway.

Well i guess Ric it all depends on what level you ride/train.

Here is what Chris Carmichael says (Lance Armstrong's coach):=

Since Lance's riding volume is high, and his relative intensity is lower than in other parts of the year, this is a good time for him to lift weights in the gym. Even though Lance is an endurance athlete, strength training is an important part of his yearly program. It restores muscle mass lost during the season, reinforces neural control of muscle, and enhances stability.

During the racing season, Lance and most other elite endurance athletes lose muscle mass. The extreme energy requirements of a race like the Tour de France, along with the training and racing involved in preparing for it, are nearly impossible to meet completely. Over the course of a long season, the body gradually breaks down muscle tissue to use the protein for energy, cell repair, and immune system maintenance. Strength training helps to rebuild this muscle tissue, as well as the connective tissues (tendons and ligaments) that can also get broken down during the season.

While Lance's weight training program increases his lean body mass a little bit, the benefits of the strength improvements far outweigh the very small amount of lean body mass he gains. In truth, most of the gains he makes in the gym are due to neuromuscular development, as opposed to hypertrophy. Neuromuscular development refers to the nervous system's capacity for recruiting muscle fibers for action, while hypertrophy refers to increasing the size of muscle fibers. This neuromuscular development plays a larger role than hypertrophy in Lance's weight training program because of the amount of time he spends in the gym and the types of exercises he performs.

Since Lance is using weight training as a supplement to his aerobic conditioning program, we place the highest priority on his riding and a lower priority on his weight work. While squats are one of the best exercises available for developing lower body strength and power, I don't use them with Lance because he and I are not willing to take the risks associated with squats. Lance's squatting technique is nearly flawless, but all things considered, he can get the benefits we're looking for, with less associated risk, from a seated leg press. Overall, we focus on powerful multi-joint exercises that recruit the most muscle fiber.

Stability is another, equally important, rationale for Lance's weight program. Cycling is a non-weight-bearing sport, and the legs primarily move in one plane (vertically, but not horizontally). Weight training, along with his cross-training activities from September and October, help ensure that the accessory muscles in Lance's hips, torso, and upper body are developed enough to prevent imbalances and injuries. It is important for highly specialized athletes like cyclists to participate in other sports for some portion of the year in order to keep from becoming fragile. You should be an athlete first, and a cyclist second. This is difficult at the elite level, but it is something the amateur cyclist should take to heart. A pickup game of basketball shouldn't leave you hobbling and sore for days. You work very hard on your endurance and your power, you should be able to use that fitness for more than pedaling a bicycle.

If someone wants to get faster on the bike..I say go do a few sets of hard intervals. That will make you much faster than a few sets of squats or leg presses in the gym. My money is on the guy doing the intervals....the guy doing the long rides....they guy doing the fast club ride on tues and thurs nites....the guy doing the intervals on the local hill climb.......the guy doing the timetrial training or doing some fast tempo rides. The guy that likes to hammer at the front of the bunch. The guy that can't wait to launch his attack at the base of the next climb. My money is on that guy!!!!!!!! They guy that comes home and crawls off his bike exhausted and dripping with sweat. The guy with the deep dark tan lines along his jersey sleeve, at the end of his shorts, and at the top of his socks from long days in the saddle out in the hot sunshine. The guy with the white skin around his eyes from cycling in the sun with his shades on for hours at a time. The guy that carries two large water bottles out on his ride...and has to stop and refill them at the 30 mile mark. Yes..my money is on that guy. Not they guy in the gym hurling those silly dumbells and barbells.

I think that we amateurs will make progressive improvements for years to come by just cycling, training and racing. We are not trying to get that extra 2% that Lance is seeking to get an advantage at the Tour de France. We are not tearing down and cannibalizing our protein in the same way that Lance does in a few 2 thousand mile stage races. It's much easier for us to gain 5 or 10% than for Lance to gain 2%. Besides...muuch of that Carmichael stuff that you post does not apply to any of us here.

hee hee well i wonder why lance does it and wins races then?!!!!!

even though it may not apply to us (because the majority of people here aren't riding the TdF etc) it's still wrong for the elite riders. there's no evidence *whatsoever* that weight training is beneficial to elite riders, and some evidence that it's detrimental.

as mentioned before there's no benefit at all to cycling from the neuromuscular adaptations that may occur from weights. this is because the adaptations occur *only* at the joint angle and velocity at which they're trained.

i will cleary state: there is no benefit to endurance cycling performance for those that race (or could race) from weight training. it's likely to be detrimental. this topic has been discused ad infinitum. you can check out the previous threads on by searching this forum.

ric

Is cycling really not weight bearing? How can you stand on the pedals and power over a climb without bearing weight on the musculoskeletal system? How can your legs turn the pedals 'against' the resistence of the road withought bearing weight? Is there a distinction to be made between the weight coming from above the foot and the weight applied underneath the foot in the form of resistence? Is the musculoskeletal system not stimulated by overcoming the resistence of the bicycle cranks? Does the bone of the legs play an important role in turning the pedals...why yes it does. Just try pedaling without your tibia bones. Does the skeletal system of the upper body bear your weight while you are on the bike and in the drops for several hours at a time? Doesn't the upper body play a crucial role in overcoming the resistence of the road?...try doing a 2 hour training ride completely 'hands free' and you will be convinced that the upper body bears an immense workload during training. Cycling is 'weight bearing' but without the impact or jarring you get with running. When one says 'weight bearing'..is he suggesting that the system knows the difference between external resistence and his own body weight? You are non weight while laying in the bed...but to say that an intense activity such as a hard training ride over varied terrain and at varied intensities is 'non weight bearing' is absurd in my opinion.

Chris Boardman suffered from a disease that caused his bones to lose mineralization and become less dense than normal. This could be a result of years of expending physiological reserves at a fster rate than they could be replaced...causing a compounding effect over time...or a better explanation is that his condition was somewhat genetic in nature and had nothing to do with cycling. But be sure it had nothing to do with the fact that his chosen sport was a non weight bearing activity...because it was infact 'weight bearing'. I know of no other studies that suggest that cyclists suffer from a greater risk of osteoperosis than the general population. I work in healthcare...and I see what happens to the bones of people that lay in bed all day or sit in a wheelchair all day. I assure you..they would pay a small fortune to have the dense mineral rich skeleton of a Lance Armstrong or Jan Ullrich. Perhaps they should just buy a bike and get outta those wheelchairs or get up outta that hospital bed.

hee heee heee I wonder why Lemond didn't do weights and won the tour three times without drugs?

one of the previous discussions on weight training has now been made sticky, as this subject crops up on a very regular basis. if you search through pages of previous threads or search for posts on my name, there's a stack more of these weight training threads. some of them go in to more detail.

anyway, this was the first thread that came to hand: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133.html

ric

"Is cycling really not weight bearing? How can you stand on the pedals and power over a climb without bearing weight on the musculoskeletal system? How can your legs turn the pedals 'against' the resistence of the road withought bearing weight?"

Sure, it's weight-bearing. I consider cycling to be a form of resistance training that demands muscular effort. Your muscles drive the pedals - namely the legs.
The main difference is, of course, that cyclists drive the pedals for very long periods of time and any muscular effort that's sustained for lengthy periods will develop aerobic fitness and performance, as opposed to explosive power.
I hear folks say from time to time you need no strength to power a bike and the phrase sometimes springs into my mind when I'm digging deep into the well to ascend a never-ending hill, way out in the countryside. At such periods, my legs are driving like pistons.
Any weight-bearing activity can be used for endurance don't you think? The factors involved are intensity and duration. Even on a roadbike you can't train intensely and long. If you train long, you can't be going at maximum intensity. If you do ride at max intensity you'll be winding up your session after a fairly short period - no gas left in the tank.
The only way one can train for a long period is to sacrifice intensity in any activity. Likewise I could do barbell curls for 7 hours if my weight was light. I can cycle for 7 hours if I pace myself. However, if I curl with a heavy weight or sprint flat out up a hill on the bike my session will soon be over.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by oneradtec
Is cycling really not weight bearing? How can you stand on the pedals and power over a climb without bearing weight on the musculoskeletal system? How can your legs turn the pedals 'against' the resistence of the road withought bearing weight? Is there a distinction to be made between the weight coming from above the foot and the weight applied underneath the foot in the form of resistence? Is the musculoskeletal system not stimulated by overcoming the resistence of the bicycle cranks? Does the bone of the legs play an important role in turning the pedals...why yes it does. Just try pedaling without your tibia bones. Does the skeletal system of the upper body bear your weight while you are on the bike and in the drops for several hours at a time? Doesn't the upper body play a crucial role in overcoming the resistence of the road?...try doing a 2 hour training ride completely 'hands free' and you will be convinced that the upper body bears an immense workload during training. Cycling is 'weight bearing' but without the impact or jarring you get with running. When one says 'weight bearing'..is he suggesting that the system knows the difference between external resistence and his own body weight? You are non weight while laying in the bed...but to say that an intense activity such as a hard training ride over varied terrain and at varied intensities is 'non weight bearing' is absurd in my opinion.

Chris Boardman suffered from a disease that caused his bones to lose mineralization and become less dense than normal. This could be a result of years of expending physiological reserves at a fster rate than they could be replaced...causing a compounding effect over time...or a better explanation is that his condition was somewhat genetic in nature and had nothing to do with cycling. But be sure it had nothing to do with the fact that his chosen sport was a non weight bearing activity...because it was infact 'weight bearing'. I know of no other studies that suggest that cyclists suffer from a greater risk of osteoperosis than the general population. I work in healthcare...and I see what happens to the bones of people that lay in bed all day or sit in a wheelchair all day. I assure you..they would pay a small fortune to have the dense mineral rich skeleton of a Lance Armstrong or Jan Ullrich. Perhaps they should just buy a bike and get outta those wheelchairs or get up outta that hospital bed.

I have to disagree with ric when he says there is no research that says weight training is good for you.

http://www.trainright.com/page.asp?page_id=content&page_content=A-8&CategoryID=66&ArticleID=7#article

It is good for you, as long as you do it right.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jagrazor
I have to disagree with ric when he says there is no research that says weight training is good for you.

http://www.trainright.com/page.asp?page_id=content&page_content=A-8&CategoryID=66&ArticleID=7#article

It is good for you, as long as you do it right.

I saw your reply to this in the other thread.. (ric)

but this is a quote from the study

"Hickson and colleagues from the University of Chicago studied the impact of adding heavy resistance training to increase leg strength in eight running and cycling trained subjects who had already been training for several years."

they copied that study from the another website.. I can't remember off the top of my head, but its a UK website... maybe someone else remembers?

They have tons of studies on lots of different things. One of there studies was on gains in strength based on velocity. Weight training at slow velocities didnt result in very much gains in strength at faster velocities, but there were gains.. however small ones..

so to be most efficent you need to weight train at the speed you will use that strength on the bike, but you will gain no matter what.. just not as much if you are less specific..

too add to this, I just can not see how weights can be a complete waste of time if if Lance Armstrong does weights. Now maybe he doesnt do exactly what they publish, but from the looks of him, he does do weights.. (why else would he weigh so much?) Otherwise he would look more like a marathon runner...(at least in his upper body)

What im saying is how can someone whos won the tour 5 times be doing something inefficent.. you can say genetic freak, but then again isnt everyone thats placing top 10 for GC a genetic freak?... or at least thats the way people might explain a person whos fittness is so far ahead of theres it makes them feel bad :p

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by jagrazor
I saw your reply to this in the other thread.. (ric)

but this is a quote from the study

"Hickson and colleagues from the University of Chicago studied the impact of adding heavy resistance training to increase leg strength in eight running and cycling trained subjects who had already been training for several years."

Jagrazor, already quoted this same web page (as have others).

Check this thread...

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133-15-1.html

Go down to the 10th and 12th posts. I even bolded where it stated "already been training for several years." He still won't budge.