Brooks saddle shape

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, I do have one problem - it rubs the back of
my legs a little raw in one spot, at the top of my leg.

Brooks saddles do not allow themselves to move as far back
as others. try a seatpost with more setback

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out
which is rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and make
it resemble the Swift. I have also seen saddles with a row
of holes punched in the bottom of the deep leather sides and
then rawhide or zip ties were passsed between the holes on
either side to "stitch" the bottom of the saddle closed.
Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm guessing it
would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not
the smoother sides.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<mark-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a Brooks B17N (the narrow version) for somewhere
around 1000 miles now. It seems like it is broken in
(should be by now, I would think). It is mostly
comfortable, at least the the most comfortable saddle I've
tried so far (the crappy Selle Italia that came on the
bike and a Terry Fly)

Unfortunately, I do have one problem - it rubs the back of
my legs a little raw in one spot, at the top of my leg.

I'm wondering if the B17 is not quite cut away enough for
me. Are the other models shaped any different (the swift
maybe)? I think the new swallow is supposed to cut away
pretty deep, but $400 seems a bit steep for a saddle.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Russell Seaton) said:

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out
which is rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and
make it resemble the Swift. I have also seen saddles with
a row of holes punched in the bottom of the deep leather
sides and then rawhide or zip ties were passsed between
the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides.
I'm guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing
your leg and not the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It is
chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle,
because my sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't
really stick up a lot, just enough that I can feel it. Not
sure if this is a bad thing in the long run...

Mark Heiple said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(Russell Seaton) said:

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring out
which is rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away and
make it resemble the Swift. I have also seen saddles with
a row of holes punched in the bottom of the deep leather
sides and then rawhide or zip ties were passsed between
the holes on either side to "stitch" the bottom of the
saddle closed. Thus bringing in the bottom of the sides.
I'm guessing it would be the bottom edge that is rubbing
your leg and not the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It is
chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the middle,
because my sit bones have broken in the sides. It doesn't
really stick up a lot, just enough that I can feel it. Not
sure if this is a bad thing in the long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the long
run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It is
chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a
series of holes along the skirt on both sides and then laced
the two sides together underneath. That might pull it in
enough to stop the chafing...
--
PeteCresswell

Check this out:
wallbike.combutchering.htmlOpen ↗

Gary Jacobson Rosendale, NY

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It is
chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a
series of holes

along

Quoted message said:

the skirt on both sides and then laced the two sides
together underneath.

That

Quoted message said:

might pull it in enough to stop the chafing...
--
PeteCresswell

Gary Jacobson said:

Check this out:
wallbike.combutchering.htmlOpen ↗

Gary Jacobson Rosendale, NY

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It
is chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a
series of holes

along

Quoted message said:

the skirt on both sides and then laced the two sides
together underneath.

That

Quoted message said:

might pull it in enough to stop the chafing...
--
PeteCresswell

Dear Gary,

What a nice page!

wallbike.combutchering.htmlOpen ↗

And at the bottom of all those pictures of oddly modified
Brooks saddles is a link to another page about strange
changes for saddlebag fanatics:

wallbike.comcarradicehacks.htmlOpen ↗

The saddlebag tweaks include links to detailed texts
and pictures.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(Russell Seaton) said:

If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring
out which is rubbing your leg, then you can cut it away
and make it resemble the Swift. I have also seen
saddles with a row of holes punched in the bottom of
the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties
were passsed between the holes on either side to
"stitch" the bottom of the saddle closed. Thus bringing
in the bottom of the sides. I'm guessing it would be
the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and not the
smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It is
chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the
middle, because my sit bones have broken in the sides.
It doesn't really stick up a lot, just enough that I
can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the
long run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

I've been thinking that I should try a new saddle, I kept
holding out hoping that it would break in and all the
problems would go away...it is a lot more comfortable than
my previous saddles (except for the chafing).

I was comparing pictures of the B17, Team Professional, and
Swift, and they don't appear to have much different shapes.
I was trying to figure out if the Swift might narrow a
little quicker, leaving more room for my legs and stop the
chafing, but it doesn't look like it. Would the thicker
leather models avoid the "ass hatchet" problem?

So I guess I'm back on the saddle search again....

The original saddle was a cheap hard as a rock Selle Italia.
I remember it took a long time for me to toughen up enough
that I could tolerate it for more than a couple hours. Then
winter came, and when I got the bike out in the spring, it
was like starting all over. I decided it was easier to get a
new saddle than go through all that again.

Then I tried a Terry Fly. It seemed a lot more comfortable
at first, but after a couple hours, the plastic base really
starts getting your attention. Then I got caught in the
rain, which ruined it.

Here's a stupid question - does weight make a difference on
the type of saddle people find comfortable? Those plastic
saddles seem to get quite uncomfortable with my 220 lb
carcass bearing down on them!

Thanks.

Mark Heiple said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote:

> If you are sure its the bottom of the saddle flaring
> out which is rubbing your leg, then you can cut it
> away and make it resemble the Swift. I have also seen
> saddles with a row of holes punched in the bottom of
> the deep leather sides and then rawhide or zip ties
> were passsed between the holes on either side to
> "stitch" the bottom of the saddle closed. Thus
> bringing in the bottom of the sides. I'm guessing it
> would be the bottom edge that is rubbing your leg and
> not the smoother sides.

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It
is chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the
middle, because my sit bones have broken in the sides.
It doesn't really stick up a lot, just enough that I can
feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the long
run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the
long run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

I've been thinking that I should try a new saddle, I kept
holding out hoping that it would break in and all the
problems would go away...it is a lot more comfortable than
my previous saddles (except for the chafing).

I was comparing pictures of the B17, Team Professional, and
Swift, and they don't appear to have much different shapes.
I was trying to figure out if the Swift might narrow a
little quicker, leaving more room for my legs and stop the
chafing, but it doesn't look like it. Would the thicker
leather models avoid the "ass hatchet" problem?

So I guess I'm back on the saddle search again....

The original saddle was a cheap hard as a rock Selle
Italia. I remember it took a long time for me to toughen up
enough that I could tolerate it for more than a couple
hours. Then winter came, and when I got the bike out in the
spring, it was like starting all over. I decided it was
easier to get a new saddle than go through all that again.

Then I tried a Terry Fly. It seemed a lot more comfortable
at first, but after a couple hours, the plastic base really
starts getting your attention. Then I got caught in the
rain, which ruined it.

Here's a stupid question - does weight make a difference on
the type of saddle people find comfortable? Those plastic
saddles seem to get quite uncomfortable with my 220 lb
carcass bearing down on them!

Thanks.

Dear Mark,

I seem to recall that Chalo Colina, our resident giant,
favors broad Brooks saddles, but his opinion about what
saddles might suit mere 220-pound flyweights is likely to be
either theoretical or else just a dim childhood memory.

Still, he'd be worth listening to.

Carl Fogel

Mark Heiple said:

Here's a stupid question - does weight make a difference on
the type of saddle people find comfortable? Those plastic
saddles seem to get quite uncomfortable with my 220 lb
carcass bearing down on them!

My 210 lb carcass, in my experience so far, is happiest on a
Selle Italia Prolink plastic saddle (although the surface is
leather). It's the plain Prolink, no cutout, no gel, etc. I
think I might like a cutout, though.

I have a Prolink Gelflow which appears similar, but has a
couple spots of gel, and it makes me numb.

I intend to try a Selle Italia Trans Am Max, which I'm
hoping will be like the Prolink plus a cutout, which may be
just right.
--
Rick Onanian

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I think it is the top outside edge near the rear of the
saddle, where it starts curving in toward the nose. It is
chafing me sort of where my rear and leg join up.

I've seen pix of Brooks saddles where somebody punched a
series of holes along the skirt on both sides and then
laced the two sides together underneath. That might pull
it in enough to stop the chafing...

I had the same chafing problem with my B17 after some 2000
km, and tried lacing the sides as you mention. It was
totally efficient against chafing, but then the saddle lost
all its suppleness and became hard as wood. To my despair,
I have reverted to the Selle Italia Tri-matic, which
finally does a good job too. In the meantime, I have
briefly tried the Brooks Swift, but it proved _much_ harder
at the start than the B17, and I doubted I would ever be
able to break it in.

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the
saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch
the leather a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of a
complete turn to tighten it up a lot, so easy does it.
As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from the
front, turn the bolt very slightly counter-clockwise to
tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8 turn should be enough.

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote:

Quoted message said:

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the
middle, because my sit bones have broken in the sides.
It doesn't really stick up a lot, just enough that I
can feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the
long run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the
long run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Quoted message said:

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

I had a chafing problem with a B-17 standard. Then I got
a Koobi Silver, and have not looked back. Brooks is not
for everyone.

Bill

On 21 Jun 2004 09:53:13 -0700, [email hidden] (flatline)

Quoted message said:

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the
saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch
the leather a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of
a complete turn to tighten it up a lot, so easy does
it. As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from
the front, turn the bolt very slightly counter-
clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8 turn should be
enough.

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mark Heiple said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Russell Seaton) wrote:

Quoted message said:

I also notice that I have a ridge running down the
middle, because my sit bones have broken in the sides.
It doesn't really stick up a lot, just enough that I can
feel it. Not sure if this is a bad thing in the long
run...

Dear Mark,

I'm afraid that the ridge that you mention leads in the
long run to the term "ass hatchet."

If the sides have broken down enough to reveal a ridge in
the middle that you can feel, a new saddle sounds like a
wise investment--would you keep a shoe with a ridge like
that that also chafed you elsewhere?

Quoted message said:

Sympathetically,

Carl Fogel

Dear Flatline,

Aha! So there is a better solution!

Am I right in guessing that this snub-up bolt tightens
the leather across the saddle, which is sagging or
drooping between a centerline support and an edge support
on either side?

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

I seem to recall that Chalo Colina, our resident giant,
favors broad Brooks saddles, but his opinion about what
saddles might suit mere 220-pound flyweights is likely to
be either theoretical or else just a dim childhood memory.

Well, it has been a long, long time. Back then I was much
less picky about saddles, but the best I had was a Vetta ATB
saddle-- which if I guess correctly is no longer available.
It was similar in shape to the OEM saddles of the pre-Selle
Italia Flite, pre-fart-slot days, but larger in both width
and length.

My thinking is that you want to keep PSI levels on your
"contact patch" within the normal range, but that sport
saddles are the shape they are for good reasons. So a heavy
rider can do well by selecting a saddle that is oversized,
but of normal relative proportions and contours. Saddles
reminiscent of tractor seats, birthday cakes, or Pop Art
soft sculptures are less likely to suit an active rider.

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,

(flatline) said:

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the
saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and stretch
the leather a bit tighter. It only takes a fraction of
a complete turn to tighten it up a lot, so easy does
it. As you look at the saddle's adjustment bolt from
the front, turn the bolt very slightly counter-
clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to 1/8 turn should be
enough.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. When I tighten it, should I
see the saddle visibly change, or will it just feel
different?

I think I'll also try the suggestion to punch holes in the
skirt and lace them together. I'll try tightening first,
then try lacing the skirt together if tightening doesn't
work for me.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I was comparing pictures of the B17, Team Professional,
and Swift, and they don't appear to have much different
shapes. I was trying to figure out if the Swift might
narrow a little quicker, leaving more room for my legs and
stop the chafing, but it doesn't look like it.

The Swift doesn't narrow more quickly in the sense of being
more "T" shaped. The difference is that the fantail is a
little bit smaller, so there's less narrowing to be done.
Rather than rely on that to solve the problem, I'd
experiment with pushing the saddle back a bit further.

Quoted message said:

Would the thicker leather models avoid the "ass
hatchet" problem?

Quite possibly. Or you may just have a bad one. At least
among standard B17s, there have been recurring complaints of
saddles sagging before their time. I don't know if this
complaint applies to B17 Narrows, but (FWIW) I've never
heard it about a Pro or Swift.

My own data points: Four B17 variants (standard, Champion
Special, Champion Flyer (single rail sprung), B66 Champion
(double rail sprung
w/ B17 top); one Swift. The four B17s were all decently
comfortable after 50-100 miles, except for the B17
Champion Special, which required twice that. One
developed a ridge at about 1000 miles, but the others
have not. The Swift took something like 700 miles to
begin to be comfortable, and, at 1800 miles, its
"dimples" are barely discernible.

Peter Storey

The curvature of the saddle does not change much after
adjusting. But the leather firmness seems to increase along
the left and right sides. My butt notices it. Rain and road
spray seems to be leather saddles' worst enemy. After riding
in just a little wet weather the center ridge gets worse and
I usually need to tweak the adjustment bolt.

Mark Heiple <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<mark-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(flatline) said:

If a painful center ridge forms after wearing in the
saddle (as mine
did), use a wrench on the hex adjustment bolt and
stretch the leather a bit tighter. It only takes a
fraction of a complete turn to tighten it up a lot,
so easy does it. As you look at the saddle's
adjustment bolt from the front, turn the bolt very
slightly counter-clockwise to tighten it up. 1/16 to
1/8 turn should be enough.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. When I tighten it, should I
see the saddle visibly change, or will it just feel
different?

I think I'll also try the suggestion to punch holes in the
skirt and lace them together. I'll try tightening first,
then try lacing the skirt together if tightening doesn't
work for me.