On cheap bikes...

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40d5a894.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

My sister wanted me to "look at the gear adjustment" on
her bike. Transpires it's a £40 Universal bike acquired
by mail order, actually a present from the in-laws. I
then found:

I got one of these years ago in replacement (insurance job)
for a bike that got nicked . It was so bad I gave it away
for nothing.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Zog The Undeniable said:

Question: why do people buy bikes for £40? Would they buy
a new car for £1,000 and expect it to be any good?

Hate to say it, especially as I've onwed several cars and
expect to own several more, but there is a whacking great
proportion of a car's price which is advertising.

anyone in this group know what the figure is?

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

Hate to say it, especially as I've onwed several cars and
expect to own several more, but there is a whacking great
proportion of a car's price which is advertising.

anyone in this group know what the figure is?

Urban myth. I pulled up the figures for General Motors here
a little while ago in response to that claim. They spend
$2.3Bn a year on advertising on sales of $200Bn so hardly a
whacking great proportion.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

Hate to say it, especially as I've onwed several cars and
expect to own several more, but there is a whacking great
proportion of a car's price which is advertising.

anyone in this group know what the figure is?

Urban myth. I pulled up the figures for General Motors here
a little while ago in response to that claim. They spend
$2.3Bn a year on advertising on sales of $200Bn so hardly a
whacking great proportion.

Tony

You did that in response to my post that something like
$4000 (I forget) is spent on advertising per car (by GM).
Figures I pulled from the Economist.

Don't know what else GM sells as well as cars but would
expect most of the $2.3Bn is on consumer product
advertising.

Not Responding said:

You did that in response to my post that something like
$4000 (I forget) is spent on advertising per car (by GM).
Figures I pulled from the Economist.

Don't know what else GM sells as well as cars but would
expect most of the $2.3Bn is on consumer product
advertising.

Well GM sells around 8-9 million cars and trucks so even if
all their advertising spend went on them and none on their
financial services, communications services, Hughes Aircraft
Division, Locomotives etc etc that would amount to about
$300 per vehicle. As they do spend on advertising those
other activities one can safely assume that they spend a lot
less than $300 a vehicle and the Economist is wrong.

To get to the Economist figure the entire advertising spend
of all GM divisions would have to be spent on just over half
the SUVs they sell and nothing else.

Tony

Not Responding said:

You did that in response to my post that something like
$4000 (I forget) is spent on advertising per car (by GM).
Figures I pulled from the Economist.

Think I've found the source of your figure and its the
rebates that are very popular in the US. Most major makers
offer cash back when you buy a new car at the list price. So
its not part of the price you pay but rather the discount
they are giving on new car purchase. The figure for General
Motors is around $4000.

The following from Bloombergs: "U.S. automakers spent an
average $3,710 per car and truck during the first two weeks
of December, according to Bandon, Oregon-based CNW Marketing
Research. General Motors spent $4,319 per vehicle, compared
with Toyota spent $2,726 and Honda $1,322 and Nissan Motor
co. $1,588."

Tony

Simon Mason said:

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:40d5a894.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

My sister wanted me to "look at the gear adjustment" on
her bike. Transpires it's a £40 Universal bike acquired
by mail order, actually a present from the in-laws. I
then found:

I got one of these years ago in replacement (insurance job)
for a bike that got nicked . It was so bad I gave it away
for nothing.

Jesus, what insurance company was that? Assuming the bike
stolen was pretty reasonable its pretty awful to get some
sterling house type monstrosity as a replacement.

Mind you I see people riding these cheap taiwanese or
chinese universal type bikes everyday where I live and
people seem happy enough with them. I suspect if it wasn't
for the fact that bikes are stolen so often they might get
themselves better bikes but many people seem resolved now to
using cheap bikes to deter thieves. Lets face it there can't
be much of a resell value for a bike costing £40-70 new on
the blackmarket. £10-15 I suspect and a lot more hassle
what with hiding it etc. Vermin like this would be much
better off shoplifting down the local shopping arcade.

Tony Raven said:

Not Responding said:

You did that in response to my post that something like
$4000 (I forget) is spent on advertising per car (by GM).
Figures I pulled from the Economist.

Think I've found the source of your figure and its the
rebates that are very popular in the US. Most major makers
offer cash back when you buy a new car at the list price.
So its not part of the price you pay but rather the
discount they are giving on new car purchase. The figure
for General Motors is around $4000.

The following from Bloombergs: "U.S. automakers spent an
average $3,710 per car and truck during the first two weeks
of December, according to Bandon, Oregon-based CNW
Marketing Research. General Motors spent $4,319 per
vehicle, compared with Toyota spent $2,726 and Honda $1,322
and Nissan Motor co. $1,588."

Tony

The word "spent" seems rather odd in that context.

Zog The Undeniable typed:

Quoted message said:

- handlebars had slipped round 90 degrees because stem
bolt wasn't tightened (factory fault)

Why is this a factory fault ? Many bikes come delivered with
handlebars turned round .. even from the best LBS'

Quoted message said:

- rear hub bearing had more slop than school semolina
(factory fault)

General mechanical overview and adjustment before riding ..

Quoted message said:

- tyres lose all their air over a week (factory fault)

Could be .. but could sis have also punctured the wheels
when she put them on ?

Quoted message said:

- saddle rocked because bolt not tight (factory fault)

General mechanical overview and adjustment before riding ..

Quoted message said:

- rear brake outer not seated properly in lever rendering
brake inoperative (probably my sister's fault since she
put the wheels on when it arrived)

General mechanical overview and adjustment before riding ..

Quoted message said:

- indexed gears don't upshift cleanly as freewheel and
chainset have no attempt at ramps or pick-up teeth
(cheapskate design fault)

The bike was £40, what do you expect, XTR slickness ?

Quoted message said:

- headset loose (factory fault)

General mechanical overview and adjustment before riding ..

Quoted message said:

- both brakes off-centre and dragging
- one rear brake show fouling the tyre

General mechanical overview and adjustment before riding ..

Quoted message said:

I could go on, but you get the idea.

The bike's £40, what do you expect ?

Quoted message said:

Question: why do people buy bikes for £40?

'cos they're cheap, look flashy and maybe for some people
it's all they can afford and/or they simply don't know any
better ...

Quoted message said:

Would they buy a new car for £1,000 and expect it to be
any good?

I dunno, would they ? I bought a car for £230 and it was
excellent .. I also bought a bicycle for £800 that was [censored]
.. the sale price of an item doesn't always reflect the
quality of the components or the whole .. 😉

Quoted message said:

What kind of monkeys "assemble" these bikes?

The same as on any other factory assembly line.

Quoted message said:

How are they allowed to carry a BS6102 sticker (it did)?

That would depend on what BS6102 tests for or covers. In my
experience BS numbers are more of a paperwork and [censored]-
covering exercise than an actual aid to quality.

Quoted message said:

On the bright side, it has alloy rims so maybe
"widowmaker" chromed steel rims have finally died.
Let's hope so - I had some scary moments in my youth
when it rained.

Heheheh, I'd agree with that, though have you looked closely
at the Teflon brake blocks .. 😉

--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks

"Martin Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:40d5a894.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

My sister wanted me to "look at the gear adjustment" on
her bike. Transpires it's a £40 Universal bike acquired
by mail order, actually a present from the in-laws. I
then found:

I got one of these years ago in replacement (insurance
job) for a bike

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

got nicked . It was so bad I gave it away for nothing.

Jesus, what insurance company was that? Assuming the bike
stolen was pretty reasonable its pretty awful to get some
sterling house type monstrosity as a replacement.

Lloyds TSB

It was the old "they don't make that model any more, but
here's the latest equivalent" routine.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jesus, what insurance company was that? Assuming the bike
stolen was pretty reasonable its pretty awful to get some
sterling house type monstrosity as a replacement.

Lloyds TSB

It was the old "they don't make that model any more, but
here's the latest equivalent" routine.

Well thats me warned off Lloyds TSB insurance for life.
Its like having your car stolen and being given a
trabant or having your top end Sony tv replaced by a low
end Beko model.

My girlfriend bought me one of these as a surprise last
Xmas. It was a surprise, I hadn't been on a bike for years
and it was probably 40 years since I got a new one for Xmas.

Her theory in spending that sort of money is, lets see if he
takes to cycling, if not then it's not too big an outlay.

My experience:

I couldn't produce such a catalogue of faults. The bike is
mostly solid, but you have to do a careful spanner check
once you unpack it.

I've had the screw thread strip on the pedal into pedal
arm joint, possibly partly my fault from trying to force
the bike into the back of the car. It was of course the
right pedal which went, so a replacement chainset had to
be obtained.

I've also had to replace the front brake arms as the spring
in one failed.

Before anyone asks, no I couldn't be bothered trying to get
replacements on warranty, it would have taken too much time
and hassle.

My main dislike about the bike is, as Zog mentions, the
cheapskate indexed gears which seem to have a mind of their
own. They have the habit of upshifting of their own accord
when I'm working hard on a climb, which can be more than a
little annoying.

Since I was taking the bike for a few days touring Speyside
last month, I took it to get a proper service at my local
bike shop. Nice chap, not at all sniffy about working on the
cheapo bike. The result was that the gears were more stable
for a while, though it's getting bad again.

The bike itself stood up to 5 days in Speyside well though,
including a mixture of road and off-road routes. Next time
I'm there I'll hire a better bike locally for a proper
thrash throught the forest. I was scared to push it very
hard at all over the rough bits.

Despite having paid more for maintainance in 6 months than
the original cost of the bike, I'm not dissatisfied with it.
I accept you get the quality you pay for. Once I get some
money together I'll buy a much better bike. I've also
persuaded myself that the way my bike doesn't freewheel
downhill nearly as fast as everyone elses means I'm getting
more exercise for my money. Would I recommend one to anyone
else though? That's a different question.

Anyway, bet you didn't expect anyone here to admit to having
one of these bikes.

--
Duncan Gray

homepage - www.duncolm.co.uk also www.mountaineering-
scotland.org.uk The Mountaineering Council of Scotland

In "]news:[email hidden],
Duncan Gray <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

My main dislike about the bike is, as Zog mentions, the
cheapskate indexed gears which seem to have a mind of
their own. They have the habit of upshifting of their own
accord when I'm working hard on a climb, which can be more
than a little annoying.

That's hopefully easily solved. There should be something
visible that tightens the gear shifter (the bit on the
handlebars), and that's got loose. Simply tightening this
should stop the upshifting problem.

A

Duncan Gray said:

I couldn't produce such a catalogue of faults. The bike is
mostly solid, but you have to do a careful spanner check
once you unpack it.

Unfortunately my sister and brother in law have few tools
and no mechanical knowledge whatsoever. It's very scary.

Quoted message said:

Zog The Undeniable typed:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would they buy a new car for £1,000 and expect it to be
any good?

I dunno, would they ? I bought a car for £230 and it was
excellent .. I also bought a bicycle for £800 that was
[censored] .. the sale price of an item doesn't always reflect
the quality of the components or the whole .. 😉

No, you misunderstand me. Would you buy a NEW (as in unused)
car for £1,000? Of course you wouldn't, it would be a pile
of poo. Likewise, a new bike for 40 quid is bound to be
rubbish - an XT rear mech costs more
- but you could pick up a sound, if unfashionable, s/h one
for that price.

Martin Wilson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jesus, what insurance company was that? Assuming the
bike stolen was pretty reasonable its pretty awful to
get some sterling house type monstrosity as a
replacement.

Lloyds TSB

It was the old "they don't make that model any more, but
here's the latest equivalent" routine.

Well thats me warned off Lloyds TSB insurance for life.
Its like having your car stolen and being given a
trabant or having your top end Sony tv replaced by a low
end Beko model.

I dunno. Last I heard Sony tellys were being made in Spain
and all had shocking geometry...

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden], Duncan Gray
<[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

My main dislike about the bike is, as Zog mentions, the
cheapskate indexed gears which seem to have a mind of
their own. They have the habit of upshifting of their
own accord when I'm working hard on a climb, which can
be more than a little annoying.

That's hopefully easily solved. There should be something
visible that tightens the gear shifter (the bit on the
handlebars), and that's got

loose.

Quoted message said:

Simply tightening this should stop the upshifting problem.

Oh I've tried. It's not loose, it's as tight as it gets. I
suspect the cable may be a bit too elasticy.