who made this frame????

I think it is about impossible to name it. There are brazed-on attachments for fenders and/or a
rack. So, it appears to be a touring, more than a racing, frame. What intrigues me is the absense of
the manufacturer's label and the presence of the Campagnolo logo in the steering area: I have never
seen such a thing. I suspect the frame has been repainted and the decals that appear are not the
original ones.

As as a side remark. Over here one can find (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for
little money: nobody wants them, in practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of
that area for

Well, should I plunge into business?

Sergio Pisa

Quoted message said:

As as a side remark. Over here one can find

where?

Quoted message said:

(at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for little money: nobody wants them, in
practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for

where???

Simon

mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl

Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in way back when. I don't recall
the star on the inside fork reinforcement, but otherwise it looks like what I remember. I believe
they were built by more than one place during the time in which they were imported.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"ccrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello, I picked up this frame last year and I plan on building it up with old-school Campy NR/SR.
I'm just wondering if any of you out there have a clue as to it's origin. The friend I bought it
from didn't have a clue. He only had it a year and the guy he bought it from didn't know much
either. Anyway, I took pics of it and put them up at the link below:

ccrider.nebraska.edured63cm.htmlOpen ↗

I would guess it's an late 70's / early '80s european built 'road/light touring' bike. The stars
on the inside of the fork would lead one to immediately guess Guercotti, but I'm thinking it's
more of a custom job. Back then frame builders had a huge selection of different types of
lugsets, right?

Anyway, if any of you guys can help me out identifying the maker/origin of this frameset I'd
really appreciate it! thanks!

Conrad

I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is the same, yours has been
repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986 Performance catalog and was called the "Performance Blue
Ridge". It sold for $350. The catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in
Italy to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder was given.

I'm with Sergio that this bike is "of a type" and impossible to definitively
ID.Campagnolo showed steerers in the catalog until about 1975. They were not all that unusual
in the era.

If you think you can buy low and sell high there's a bright future for you in the industry. In
reality though, one often gets waves of compliments on trade-in and vintage machines but few serious
offers. I recently overpaid for a Super Record reduced 1981 bike with hardly any miles. After a year
I sold the kit for half what I paid and got a few dollars for the frameset leaving a small net loss.
The cost of money over a year is a factor too. "Beautiful" and "Saleable" are not necessarily the
same thing. . .

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971 "Sergio SERVADIO"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think it is about impossible to name it. There are brazed-on attachments for fenders and/or a
rack. So, it appears to be a touring, more than a racing, frame. What intrigues me is the absense
of the manufacturer's label and the presence of the Campagnolo logo in the steering area: I have
never seen such a thing. I suspect the frame has been repainted and the decals that appear are not
the original ones.

As as a side remark. Over here one can find (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames
for little money: nobody wants them, in practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue
Colnago of that area for

Quoted message said:

Well, should I plunge into business?

Sergio Pisa

szymszy said:

Quoted message said:

As as a side remark. Over here one can find

where?

Quoted message said:

(at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for little money: nobody wants them, in
practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for

Quoted message said:

where???

Simon

mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl

FOUR Xs'?

is that more than 1000 euros?

sounds a bit high ..

"Waldo Hinshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"ccrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello, I picked up this frame last year and I plan on building it up with old-school Campy
NR/SR. I'm just wondering if any of you out there have a clue as to it's origin. The friend I
bought it from didn't have a clue. He only had it a year and the guy he bought it from didn't
know much either. Anyway, I took pics of it and put them up at the link below:

ccrider.nebraska.edured63cm.htmlOpen ↗

I would guess it's an late 70's / early '80s european built

'road/light

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

touring' bike. The stars on the inside of the fork would lead one to immediately guess
Guercotti, but I'm thinking it's more of a custom

job.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Back then frame builders had a huge selection of different types of lugsets, right?

Anyway, if any of you guys can help me out identifying the

maker/origin

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of this frameset I'd really appreciate it! thanks!

Conrad

I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is

the

Quoted message said:

same, yours has been repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986

Performance

Quoted message said:

catalog and was called the "Performance Blue Ridge". It sold for $350.

The

Quoted message said:

catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in

Italy

Quoted message said:

to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder

was

Quoted message said:

given.

I thought it was one of the catalog specials (including PAB), but I put it vintage-wise in the very
late '70s to early '80s. SP had fallen out of popularity by '86 and so had the long road drop-out --
but by the late '70s, it was common to build with braze-on cable guides and cable routing under the
BB. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, this is the perfect touring bike, and it is too bad you cannot get
one for $350 anymore. I should have bought one. Send it to me if you do not want it; I ride a
63cm. -- Jay Beattie.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in way back when. I don't
recall the star on the inside fork reinforcement, but otherwise it looks like what I remember. I
believe they were built by more than one place during the time in which they were imported.

I think you're right, Mike. I have an '84 PAB frame and it is almost identical to this. PAB had
three models at the time: Road Racer, Touring, and Light Touring.

I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
stays and a more laid back geometry.

Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
had chromed forks.

Art Harris

"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in

way

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

back when. I don't recall the star on the inside fork reinforcement,

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

otherwise it looks like what I remember. I believe they were built by

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than one place during the time in which they were imported.

I think you're right, Mike. I have an '84 PAB frame and it is almost identical to this. PAB had
three models at the time: Road Racer, Touring, and Light Touring.

I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
stays and a more laid back geometry.

Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
had chromed forks.

Art Harris

Correct. The frame Performance sold had chrome seat stays, chain stays, and forks. But every other
detail looks identical (except for the decals, of course). BTW, mine is a 65 cm frame and has the
"BMZ" on the BB. They must have come from the same builder. Performance sold two versions with
slightly different geometry, one for racing and the other for sport touring.

I just noticed that the Performance catalog from 1986 also offered four other framsets all of which
look similar. But the one with the same paint job, lugs, etc. as that of the OP (as far as I can
tell from the catalog picture) is a De Rosa Professional frameset. It looks like it has "De Rosa"
(with the "O" encircling a heart) embossed on the flat part of the top of the seat stays.

ajames54=99 said:

szymszy said:

Quoted message said:

As as a side remark. Over here one can find

where?

Quoted message said:

(at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for little money: nobody wants them, in
practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

where??? Simon mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl

FOUR Xs'? is that more than 1000 euros? sounds a bit high ..

1000 euros would be way too much.=20

Any large bike shop in Italy should have a good selection. Where do I shop mainly? In the Pisa-Lucca
area, in Italy.

This afternoon I took a cyclist from Santa Barbara (California) on a quick bike-related tour and I
think he almost fainted.=20

If serious about it, write in private.

Sergio Pisa=20

Quoted message said:

I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is

the

Quoted message said:

same, yours has been repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986

Performance

Quoted message said:

catalog and was called the "Performance Blue Ridge". It sold for $350.

The

Quoted message said:

catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in

Italy

Quoted message said:

to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder

was

Quoted message said:

given.

I thought it was one of the catalog specials (including PAB), but I put it vintage-wise in the very
late '70s to early '80s. SP had fallen out of popularity by '86 and so had the long road drop-out --
but by the late '70s, it was common to build with braze-on cable guides and cable routing under the
BB. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, this is the perfect touring bike, and it is too bad you cannot get
one for $350 anymore. I should have bought one. Send it to me if you do not want it; I ride a
63cm. -- Jay Beattie. [/B][/QUOTE]

Jay,
thanks for the info (and everyone else's too!). I also was thinking vintage-wise this frame is too archaic for 1986. So, I'd say at the very latest it's a 80'-83 vintage frame. I think all road/touring bikes had braze on downtube shifter bosses by then, right? And like you pointed out, the super long campy rear dropouts weren't used as much by mid 80's. Either way, it's a sweet looking frame and in great shape. i just need to find some vintage long reach brakes to put on it.

Conrad

I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
stays and a more laid back geometry.

Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
had chromed forks.

Art Harris [/B][/QUOTE]

Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. 🙂

Conrad

Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?

google.comsearchOpen ↗

ccrider <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
stays and a more laid back geometry.

Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
had chromed forks.

Art Harris

Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. 🙂

Conrad

ccrider wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. 🙂

Oh, I could never sell "Big Blue"!

At home I have the Palo Alto brochure with photos and all the specs on the three models. If you
e-mail me your address, I'd be glad to snail mail you a copy.

I was looking at my bike last night and all the lugs, cutouts, and tangs are identical to yours.
Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. But Jobst's son has a Palo Alto frame and there are
some good photos of it at:

photos.yahoo.comlstOpen ↗

The first photo (102-0207) and the next to last (IMG_0462) of the set show the bike pretty well.

Also: sbraweb.orgjobstOpen ↗

Good luck on your project.

Art Harris

almost fast said:

Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?

Quoted message said:

google.comsearchOpen ↗

Hey, thanks for the tip! The "BMZ" mystery has been bugging me for years. You might just have
the answer.

Art Harris

ccrider wrote:>

Quoted message said:

Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. 🙂

Oh, I could never sell "Big Blue"!

At home I have the Palo Alto brochure with photos and all the specs on the three models. If you
e-mail me your address, I'd be glad to snail mail you a copy.

I was looking at my bike last night and all the lugs, cutouts, and tangs are identical to yours.
Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. But Jobst's son has a Palo Alto frame and there are
some good photos of it at:

photos.yahoo.comlstOpen ↗

The first photo (102-0207) and the next to last (IMG_0462) of the set show the bike pretty well.

Also: sbraweb.orgjobstOpen ↗

Good luck on your project.

Art Harris

Art,
I can't pull up your email. but here is my snail mail addr:

Conrad Castaneda
618 S. 27th #2
Lincoln, NE 68510

photocopied or scanned images from that Palo Alto brochure of yours would be great!!!! I really appreciate it! Thanks,

Conrad

This sounds like a good tip. To anybody out there who actually owns a Biemmezeta, can you check and let us know if 'BMZ' appears on the bb shell of your frame? It would sure help those of us who have these 'mystery' / palo alto imported frames to find out who really made them.
thanks

Originally posted by Almost Fast
Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?

google.comsearchOpen ↗

ccrider <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
stays and a more laid back geometry.

Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
had chromed forks.

Art Harris

ccrider said:

photocopied or scanned images from that Palo Alto brochure of yours would be great!!!! I really
appreciate it! Thanks,

Quoted message said:

Conrad

I just mailed you a copy of the brochure. One interesting thing in the specs is that the Touring
model DIDN'T have DT bosses, while the Racing and Light Touring models did. So that's consistent
with what you've got. Colors were metallic blue, metallic red, and anthracite grey (silver in the
Light Touring model).

The Touring Model used SP tubing in sizes 58cm and up (SL in the smaller sizes).

The brochure only has an illustration of the frame, no photos. My memory was wrong about the
photos. But it's got lots of details about the materials/geometry, etc. BTW, the brochure is
postmarked May 2, 1984.

Art Harris

I just mailed you a copy of the brochure. One interesting thing in the specs is that the Touring
model DIDN'T have DT bosses, while the Racing and Light Touring models did. So that's consistent
with what you've got. Colors were metallic blue, metallic red, and anthracite grey (silver in the
Light Touring model).

The Touring Model used SP tubing in sizes 58cm and up (SL in the smaller sizes).

The brochure only has an illustration of the frame, no photos. My memory was wrong about the
photos. But it's got lots of details about the materials/geometry, etc. BTW, the brochure is
postmarked May 2, 1984.

Art Harris

- - - - - -

Art,
I got the copy of the brochure today! THANKS!!!

Conrad